Glaucon

I think Maelstrom makes some good points. However, I have a comment on this quote, People need to be protected, who fights for them? Our laws are what protects them, protects us."

I think we can protect ourselves to a much greater extent than we now do if we have enough information. I used to bank with Wells Fargo and received bad service and high charges. I moved my account to a local credit union - Schools Credit Union - and have been with them for fifteen years and have received all the services I had from Wells Fargo at much lower costs and have received much better and certainly more personal service. I think Elizabeth Warren is putting on a good fight for us and she needs our support, both word of mouth and contributions.

Artemis

Yes gerrymandering, lobbying with any exchange of money or favors, any representative signing a contract with any private party as in Grover Norquist contract.

Glaucon

I think we are banging our heads against a wall. It has been found and demonstrated that our brains don't work the way we thought they do. We believe that our political views are based on reason, evidence and self interest and they are not. The brains of conservatives and liberals work differently from each other, and operate differently than we think. There are several books out lately that consider the evidence to support a very different understanding of political behavior. I highly recommend A Stranger to Ourselves by Timothy Wilson, Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahnman, and The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt.

Artemis

It is the laws that protect us in every way, other wise a lot of people would be getting physically hurt due to no recourse.

Glaucon

I have no idea how Norquist got so much power and the contract signers have so little independence of thought and courage.

Glaucon

I agree, we have to have more than just personal action on the parts of a few of us. What are your thoughts about Elizabeth Warren? I think she is doing some important things in legislation to protect consumers.

jonhatfield Loc: Green Bay, WI

It's part of the extremism tendency and a contradiction of individualism and independent decision. Demand for conformity and staight line adherence to ideological position. Nordquist pledge is very unAmerican...opinion, I guess, though I think it's a fact. I wonder what a troll's assessment of that would be if there are any still on the thread.

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

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I'll be happy to give you my take on as much of this as I can. John McCain is not appreciated by the conservative wing of the Republican Party. Neither are others who vote for pragmatism rather than philosophy. TEA Party people are not in any way, shape, or form radical. They are simply people who are fed up with the government taking on issues that do not belong to them, thereby becoming more and more opporessive. The TEA Party people are interested in the US Constitution being followed as written. If the GOP ran every state in the Union, I doubt seriously there would be any "radicalism" legislated. I could be wrong here, but I don't think radicalism is normal within republican ranks.

There is one issue the left would see as radical that the conservative thinks is morally wrong and could live without any legislation re it (I believe), but as legislation is already in place, some will want to remove it...........late term abortion on demand. Conservatives view it as murder, and murder is against the law, punishable by law. This is the biggest thorn in the sides of both sides of the aisle. Conservatives were basically quiet about abortions until late term, on demand was legislated. When half the nation sees this as murder, and the other half places no value on the fetus, we are at a crossroad that I fear there will be no compromise on. I am a very reasonable person, but a life is a life, and we either value innocent life, or we revert to caveman mentality and behave like lesser animals. I would never support full term abortion on demand. And I am not a church member. I merely value life, the greatest gift anyone is ever offered. Personally, I find nothing horrible about first trimester abortion or abortion to save the life of the mother or in the case of incest or rape - all of which can be done the first trimester. There is no good and valid reason for full term abortion on demand. It is done for the sensational effect to rub conservative's noses in the blood of a potential life. That is MY take, and perhaps no other's. I know there are conservatives who feel that the fetus is a life upon conception, and I think this is based on religious principles, but I cannot speak to that.

If Republicans won big in all states, no deserving person would lose his welfare, but the roles would be cleaned up so that the system wasn't being worked as it is today. Republicans would be more prone to get people off the welfare roles, but not cruelly and heartlessly so. No one would starve. No one would go without medical care. No one would be placed on a death panel's list. No one would be forced to practice any religion of any sort. No one would be forced to buy health insurance or from particular agents.

I would hope the education system would be cleaned up and children taught actual history rather than make believe history, real mathematics, real science.

Many regular Republican politicians are RINOs. No TEA Party people are RINOs, at least none that I know of.

jonhatfield Loc: Green Bay, WI

Again one wonders how that applies to politics, say, in Great Britain. Or are their politics less subject to manipulations and trolling and thus mindsets not so important in effects on politics?

Is it our huge number of jurisdiction subdivisions that enable various oddities to get traction? Is that Ford charade in Toronto something similar to what we might be facing? Do we face more political criminal situations like Detroit mayoral or Illinois governorshipS--or, for that matter, like the number (4? 6?) of Scott Walker aides convicted of criminal political conduct in his Milwaukee county manager position when running for governor or the N.J. governor aides bully political practices? Of course, we have a long history of such corruption and abuses of power on both sides and perhaps more personal and localized than political party matter or tendency and perhaps more difficult to pull off in era of more open government. But again, politics in other countries more statesmanlike and not so dirty politics as ours?...or just that we don't hear the down-and-dirty sides to Brit, French, German politics? Well, not so nice in Italy, I hear. Hadn't thought of that comparison...and not relevant to our politics of the right subject unless crooked politics tended more to right than left. I have an opinion on that but no stats or facts. ha.

jonhatfield Loc: Green Bay, WI

Tea Party in no way radical? Demand to vote according to philosophy (ideology) rather than pragmatism (what works, compromise) is itself radical or extreme by definition...absolutism and conformity rather than choice and independent decision. Conformity to an ideology and purging of anyone who deviates from the straight party line is a very radical departure from historical American political practice. I would go so far as to call it unAmerican and a dangerous extremism. Do you think demand for straight line conformity to an ideological line is appropriate in America, Tassine? That's question 1.

The rants, conspiracy story lines, characterization of Obama as Muslim, communist, hater of America, etc. that occur on OPP from the further edge of the Tea Party aren't radical? I'll ask you direct, do you personally agree with any of those Obama characterizations? Question 2. Do you think there's a conspiracy to declare martial law and use FEMA facilities for detention centers? Question 3. Do you consider these ideas as no way radical or as extremely radical, extreme, and wacko--or somewhere in between? Question 4.

Right wing extremism is indeed a very real phenomenon, demonstrated by postings on OPP. The current battle-on between radicals and the establishment in the GOP is comparable to the battle with the former Birch Society extremism. It's real and it's a matter of extremism politics vs. traditional American politics. May the American way win!

jonhatfield Loc: Green Bay, WI

It was only a little troll greeting.

AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State

Would the implication be that Tasine and myself are trolls? I want my bridge to be in Hawaii, please.

Artemis

I wish she ran for presidency over HClinton

Artemis

She has such fortitude that I don't think she could be bought, that's a big one for me.

Artemis

There are no trolls here, I don't think Glaucon's intention was to have this forum to be one sided and I think he/she was seeking civility.