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Christianity vs. the Christians...
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Sep 23, 2017 05:45:17   #
JW
 
Alicia wrote:
********************
... I honor their right to believe as they will. I don't find this same respect coming from the other side.


That's a fact!

Reply
Sep 23, 2017 05:52:08   #
PeterS
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
You really should refrain from pretending to be an authority on what is or is not required to follow Christ.
You should refrain from pretending that you know what it takes to sustain one's faith in Christ.
You should refrain from pretending that you know who and who is not a Christian.
The problem is not with Christianity or Christians, the problem is atheist know-it-alls who think they hold the keys to the universe.

The only requirement to follow Christ is the willingness to do so and the sad thing is as an atheist I am probably closer to being a Christian than the majority of so called Christians on this board. And recognizing who is and who isn't a Christian isn't hard Blade. For example, someone who will refuse service to a homosexual for simply wanting to marry the one they love yet will vote for an adulterer who's shown no contrition for his sin isn't following in the path Christ laid out for them therefore isn't a Christian. This isn't a matter of 'knowing it all' but simply asking the question what would Christ do and than doing it.

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Sep 23, 2017 06:12:00   #
okie don
 
As for me, I never could buy '' Catholicism", and now we see the pedifile ' fathers ' actions worldwide .
I can readily understand JW's feelings. I just never could buy it, the philosophy thereof. My 1st 'experience. in college was with a 'girl friend'- ' lover'. (;-))
After an evening of 'fun' she had to get home by midnight as she had to go get ' Forgiven '. I just couldn't understand the concept that one could do
whatever they wanted but could then go to ' confession' talk to a ' father' put some $change$ in the collection plate and all was well.
You could go 'have fun' next week and repeat the process to be ' forgiven'.
Guess one could to steal or kill, run down and ' confess' and all was well. - A psychological ' scapegoat'.
My ' father' certainly isn't here on earth. Many have fallen away for Catholicism.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Most churches and CORPORATIONS and have 501(C)3 tax deductions.
The Bible clearly says where two (2) or more have joined together etc. IMHO one does not have to be
affiliated with a ' Church' to worship and praise the Supreme Being as it's a very personal ' spiritual' thing between
you and the ' Great Spirit' as the Indians call it...

Hope I haven't pissed of a bunch of Catholic devotees here...(:

Reply
 
 
Sep 23, 2017 07:27:10   #
Mr Bombastic
 
JW wrote:
No, that is not what it means. What it means is that the religious thrall was broken. I understand your need to believe that but it was precisely that attitude that made me aware of what brainwashing really is and how it works.

I have become agnostic. I have broken the hold of the cult. I hold on to those aspects of Christianity that Christ promoted because they are rational and positive but I have divorced myself from the hierarchy. I have come to understand many of the hows and the whys and, in the light of those, see myself as searching for truth rather than announcing to all who will listen that I have found it.
No, that is not what it means. What it means is th... (show quote)


You are so wrong. If you do not believe in God. If you do not believe that Jesus was the Son of God and that He is the only means of Salvation, then by definition you were never a Christian.

Reply
Sep 23, 2017 07:37:43   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
PeterS wrote:
The only requirement to follow Christ is the willingness to do so and the sad thing is as an atheist I am probably closer to being a Christian than the majority of so called Christians on this board. And recognizing who is and who isn't a Christian isn't hard Blade. For example, someone who will refuse service to a homosexual for simply wanting to marry the one they love yet will vote for an adulterer who's shown no contrition for his sin isn't following in the path Christ laid out for them therefore isn't a Christian. This isn't a matter of 'knowing it all' but simply asking the question what would Christ do and than doing it.
The only requirement to follow Christ is the willi... (show quote)
It takes much more than just a "willingness" to follow Christ. If you think you are closer to being a Christian than the majority of Christians on this board, why are you so judgemental? You are saying that to be a good Christian one must abandon the principles that Christ taught, and you are passing judgement on someone you despise. There is only One to whom we are accountable, and you are not Him.

There is only one sin that cannot be forgiven, neither homosexuality or adultery is it.

Reply
Sep 23, 2017 08:08:37   #
lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas
 
JW wrote:
As a young man, I was an ardent Christian. At age fourteen, I was leading Sunday evening services in our fundamentalist church, appointed to do so by our pastor and approved by the church board. The Bible was always at my right hand and I could provide a ready verse to answer most any question.

Then one day, I was summoned to the church in the middle of the week. I was pleased to be regarded in such manner that my presence was requested at a special meeting. Beaming with pride, I entered the sanctuary and took a seat as I was directed.

It was only moments before it became clear that my presence there had an ominous tone to it. I had been summoned, not as a valued member of the congregation but as the accused at an inquisition. I had no idea why I was there and no one was explaining anything. I had arrived in time for the sentencing.

I was summarily expelled from the church along with the entire family of a friend. The pastor's parting words to us were that God grants the power to his ministers to pray for the removal of 'thorns in his side'. I was sixteen at that time, a dedicated Christian, and I had just been threatened with Heavenly retribution for a crime I was still ignorant of having committed.

It was several days later when I finally learned of the terrible deeds I had reportedly taken part in.

My friend and another boy, also a friend, had collected several empty liquor bottles and, as a prank had placed them on the parsonage outside front stairs. When the pastor awoke in the morning and found the collection in his doorway, he was furious. He established an investigation, uncovered the part played by my co-ejectee and under pressure to disclose his partner in this crime, my friend named me.

If I was truly innocent, why was I named? Because the actual perpetrator of the crime, the coconspirator in the dastardly deed was the steady boyfriend of the minister's oldest daughter. Had my friend named him, the repercussions on that relationship would have been devastating and he didn't want that responsibility.

I eventually was allowed to rejoin the church but the experience broke my hold on religious devotion. I was then free to consider issues my previous mindset would not allow.

The general behavior of professing Christians, like too many of those posting here, was remarkably un-Christlike. They demonstrated a cavalier disregard for the admonitions of Christ to humility, temperance in all things and service to God and fellow man. They were arrogant, abrasive and discourteous to the point of being ready and willing to cast the first stone and relishing the act with a viciousness that has also become far too common here. Too many of them seem to view Christ's sacrifice as nothing more than a 'get out of Hell free card'. As long as their prayers include a mandatory mea culpa each night, they can continue their selfish and abusive behavior with abandon.

I have abandoned Christianity because it has become a jealous hag where once it was a powerful warrior of the Word. The Shepard's flock is now mostly ravenous wolves in sheep's garb, pretenders whose aim is no longer to serve God and fellow man but to chastise, abuse and belittle. They personify the Pharisee's prayer...

No, not all Christians behave poorly. The church's foundation is still solid but the structure is in serious need of renovation. Meanwhile, I continue to look for substance in this universe but find very little.
As a young man, I was an ardent Christian. At age ... (show quote)


I understand you completely. My Father was a preacher all my life and I was raised to see myself as different from the unwashed and unrepentant masses. I even began preaching at the age of 11 and with a particular fervor. Then, as my maturity increased, I began to see the adults around me with clearer vision.......and I was appalled. The sheer level of hypocrisy was breathtaking!

One of our fundamental tenets was the evils of alcohol, and I discovered that one of our Deacons enjoyed his beer. We had recently expelled a member because he was seen at a bar and this was felt to be a sin and reflect badly on the Church. This man was not a drunkard, a rebel rouser and otherwise lead a peaceful life. When I had proof of the Deacons lie, I took it to the Pastor and Deacons council - where I was castigated for spying on my Elders.........and had my license to preach revoked. If God called me to preach, who were they to "revoke" anything?

Reply
Sep 23, 2017 08:13:25   #
son of witless
 
JW wrote:
As a young man, I was an ardent Christian. At age fourteen, I was leading Sunday evening services in our fundamentalist church, appointed to do so by our pastor and approved by the church board. The Bible was always at my right hand and I could provide a ready verse to answer most any question.

Then one day, I was summoned to the church in the middle of the week. I was pleased to be regarded in such manner that my presence was requested at a special meeting. Beaming with pride, I entered the sanctuary and took a seat as I was directed.

It was only moments before it became clear that my presence there had an ominous tone to it. I had been summoned, not as a valued member of the congregation but as the accused at an inquisition. I had no idea why I was there and no one was explaining anything. I had arrived in time for the sentencing.

I was summarily expelled from the church along with the entire family of a friend. The pastor's parting words to us were that God grants the power to his ministers to pray for the removal of 'thorns in his side'. I was sixteen at that time, a dedicated Christian, and I had just been threatened with Heavenly retribution for a crime I was still ignorant of having committed.

It was several days later when I finally learned of the terrible deeds I had reportedly taken part in.

My friend and another boy, also a friend, had collected several empty liquor bottles and, as a prank had placed them on the parsonage outside front stairs. When the pastor awoke in the morning and found the collection in his doorway, he was furious. He established an investigation, uncovered the part played by my co-ejectee and under pressure to disclose his partner in this crime, my friend named me.

If I was truly innocent, why was I named? Because the actual perpetrator of the crime, the coconspirator in the dastardly deed was the steady boyfriend of the minister's oldest daughter. Had my friend named him, the repercussions on that relationship would have been devastating and he didn't want that responsibility.

I eventually was allowed to rejoin the church but the experience broke my hold on religious devotion. I was then free to consider issues my previous mindset would not allow.

The general behavior of professing Christians, like too many of those posting here, was remarkably un-Christlike. They demonstrated a cavalier disregard for the admonitions of Christ to humility, temperance in all things and service to God and fellow man. They were arrogant, abrasive and discourteous to the point of being ready and willing to cast the first stone and relishing the act with a viciousness that has also become far too common here. Too many of them seem to view Christ's sacrifice as nothing more than a 'get out of Hell free card'. As long as their prayers include a mandatory mea culpa each night, they can continue their selfish and abusive behavior with abandon.

I have abandoned Christianity because it has become a jealous hag where once it was a powerful warrior of the Word. The Shepard's flock is now mostly ravenous wolves in sheep's garb, pretenders whose aim is no longer to serve God and fellow man but to chastise, abuse and belittle. They personify the Pharisee's prayer...

No, not all Christians behave poorly. The church's foundation is still solid but the structure is in serious need of renovation. Meanwhile, I continue to look for substance in this universe but find very little.
As a young man, I was an ardent Christian. At age ... (show quote)


A very interesting story. It could even be true. I have no idea. I have found that the most Christian hating Atheists I have ever come across are people who grew up in overbearing religious circumstances. So maybe it is true. Then there are those of us who had crazy religious grandparents that caused us to reject God for a while. However, then life happens and eventually you find your way back. You find a different Church, another way.

What I never did was go over to the anti Christian, anti American Left wing idiots. Just like the most anti Communists are former Communists, the most fervent anti Christians are former Christians. We hope they those former Christians find their way back. I guess life hasn't happened to them yet.

Reply
 
 
Sep 23, 2017 08:20:59   #
Mr Bombastic
 
son of witless wrote:
A very interesting story. It could even be true. I have no idea. I have found that the most Christian hating Atheists I have ever come across are people who grew up in overbearing religious circumstances. So maybe it is true. Then there are those of us who had crazy religious grandparents that caused us to reject God for a while. However, then life happens and eventually you find your way back. You find a different Church, another way.

What I never did was go over to the anti Christian, anti American Left wing idiots. Just like the most anti Communists are former Communists, the most fervent anti Christians are former Christians. We hope they those former Christians find their way back. I guess life hasn't happened to them yet.
A very interesting story. It could even be true. I... (show quote)

There is no such thing as a former Christian. Think about it and you'll see why.

Reply
Sep 23, 2017 08:24:44   #
okie don
 
I luv to talk to atheists. When I finish with the numbers and how all this is fit together, they walkaway ' scratching their heads' in wonderment.
7 colors in rainbow; 7 notes on musical scale, 7 oceans, 7 continents, 7 days in week, to name but 5
I don't even explain how in the development of a fetus in the womb certain things are completed in multiples of 7 or how a woman's system changes
based on 7. eg. 2 x 7 = 14 years they can conceive. 4 X 7 days they have a cleansing cycle or 7 x 7 years = age 49 and Menopause sets in.
I don't go into the days it takes for chickens, ducks or geese to had in their shells, all multiples of the number 7...

Then I ask:" Is this ALL mere ' coincidence ' or was there an ' intelligent design"?
A ' Great Spirit ' aka GOD.
It's fun (:-))

Reply
Sep 23, 2017 08:32:44   #
Big Bass
 
JW wrote:
You misunderstand. I blame God for nothing and the experience did not shatter my faith. It did open my eyes to the reality of the world and just how skewed the religious picture was. It was a few years later that I gave up on religion altogether.


Religion - all religions - are (ab)used to control their followers' lives. The original purpose of religion, to get together to worship The Creator is lost, and forgotten. In the Roman Catholic Church, the pope is interfering in politics today, something never dreamed of only a few years ago. Like everything man-made, religion is deteriorating to the point of irrelevance. Look at islam. A vile and hateful excuse to rape, pillage and murder.
Personally, I refuse to attend any kind of religious ceremony, but I do believe in a greater Deity. And I still respect others for their beliefs, because that is a God-given right. I hope I'm wrong, but I've seen no reason to change my way of thinking.

Reply
Sep 23, 2017 08:35:07   #
Quakerwidow Loc: Chestertown, MD
 
okie don wrote:
I luv to talk to atheists. When I finish with the numbers and how all this is fit together, they walkaway ' scratching their heads' in wonderment.
7 colors in rainbow; 7 notes on musical scale, 7 oceans, 7 continents, 7 days in week, to name but 5
I don't even explain how in the development of a fetus in the womb certain things are completed in multiples of 7 or how a woman's system changes
based on 7. eg. 2 x 7 = 14 years they can conceive. 4 X 7 days they have a cleansing cycle or 7 x 7 years = age 49 and Menopause sets in.
I don't go into the days it takes for chickens, ducks or geese to had in their shells, all multiples of the number 7...

Then I ask:" Is this ALL mere ' coincidence ' or was there an ' intelligent design"?
A ' Great Spirit ' aka GOD.
It's fun (:-))
I luv to talk to atheists. When I finish with the ... (show quote)


Numerology is fun, but not all women are on your hypothetical cycle.

Reply
 
 
Sep 23, 2017 08:37:53   #
Quakerwidow Loc: Chestertown, MD
 
Big Bass wrote:
Religion - all religions - are (ab)used to control their followers' lives. The original purpose of religion, to get together to worship The Creator is lost, and forgotten. In the Roman Catholic Church, the pope is interfering in politics today, something never dreamed of only a few years ago. Like everything man-made, religion is deteriorating to the point of irrelevance. Look at islam. A vile and hateful excuse to rape, pillage and murder.
Personally, I refuse to attend any kind of religious ceremony, but I do believe in a greater Deity. And I still respect others for their beliefs, because that is a God-given right. I hope I'm wrong, but I've seen no reason to change my way of thinking.
Religion - all religions - are (ab)used to control... (show quote)


Um: you need to have a wider view of Roman Catholic Church history. Church and State have been intertwined since the Emperor Constantine.

Reply
Sep 23, 2017 08:55:52   #
Big Bass
 
JW wrote:
As a young man, I was an ardent Christian. At age fourteen, I was leading Sunday evening services in our fundamentalist church, appointed to do so by our pastor and approved by the church board. The Bible was always at my right hand and I could provide a ready verse to answer most any question.

Then one day, I was summoned to the church in the middle of the week. I was pleased to be regarded in such manner that my presence was requested at a special meeting. Beaming with pride, I entered the sanctuary and took a seat as I was directed.

It was only moments before it became clear that my presence there had an ominous tone to it. I had been summoned, not as a valued member of the congregation but as the accused at an inquisition. I had no idea why I was there and no one was explaining anything. I had arrived in time for the sentencing.

I was summarily expelled from the church along with the entire family of a friend. The pastor's parting words to us were that God grants the power to his ministers to pray for the removal of 'thorns in his side'. I was sixteen at that time, a dedicated Christian, and I had just been threatened with Heavenly retribution for a crime I was still ignorant of having committed.

It was several days later when I finally learned of the terrible deeds I had reportedly taken part in.

My friend and another boy, also a friend, had collected several empty liquor bottles and, as a prank had placed them on the parsonage outside front stairs. When the pastor awoke in the morning and found the collection in his doorway, he was furious. He established an investigation, uncovered the part played by my co-ejectee and under pressure to disclose his partner in this crime, my friend named me.

If I was truly innocent, why was I named? Because the actual perpetrator of the crime, the coconspirator in the dastardly deed was the steady boyfriend of the minister's oldest daughter. Had my friend named him, the repercussions on that relationship would have been devastating and he didn't want that responsibility.

I eventually was allowed to rejoin the church but the experience broke my hold on religious devotion. I was then free to consider issues my previous mindset would not allow.

The general behavior of professing Christians, like too many of those posting here, was remarkably un-Christlike. They demonstrated a cavalier disregard for the admonitions of Christ to humility, temperance in all things and service to God and fellow man. They were arrogant, abrasive and discourteous to the point of being ready and willing to cast the first stone and relishing the act with a viciousness that has also become far too common here. Too many of them seem to view Christ's sacrifice as nothing more than a 'get out of Hell free card'. As long as their prayers include a mandatory mea culpa each night, they can continue their selfish and abusive behavior with abandon.

I have abandoned Christianity because it has become a jealous hag where once it was a powerful warrior of the Word. The Shepard's flock is now mostly ravenous wolves in sheep's garb, pretenders whose aim is no longer to serve God and fellow man but to chastise, abuse and belittle. They personify the Pharisee's prayer...

No, not all Christians behave poorly. The church's foundation is still solid but the structure is in serious need of renovation. Meanwhile, I continue to look for substance in this universe but find very little.
As a young man, I was an ardent Christian. At age ... (show quote)

Hmmmmm. An interesting story, indeed. This kind of action by that church was very myopic. The original reason given for your expulsion was totally misguided, and your church should have simply ignored the prank. Instead, they used the old excuse to threaten you with the wrath of God. What made this pastor so special, that he could invoke God's wrath on you? Here is a mere mortal using his position to be judge and juror "in God's eyes." Wow! Talk about "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." See my post above.

Reply
Sep 23, 2017 08:57:26   #
Big Bass
 
Quakerwidow wrote:
Um: you need to have a wider view of Roman Catholic Church history. Church and State have been intertwined since the Emperor Constantine.


I don't care about the past in this respect. We have, or should have, evolved from that.

Reply
Sep 23, 2017 09:02:02   #
bylm1-Bernie
 
PeterS wrote:
The problem with Christianity is that there is no requirement to follow Christ to be considered a Christian--one simply has to ask for his forgiveness and you are in. I don't say that because I'm arrogant, I say that because it's true.



To listen to a non-Christian describe Christianity is really a head-shaker.

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