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Christianity vs. the Christians...
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Oct 2, 2017 02:52:21   #
Alicia Loc: NYC
 
BobDew wrote:
I find that there are numerous churches that are being controlled by the (elders). It's a travesty that they have lost the ability to advance in their thinking. Today, the emphasis should be put on the NEXT GENERATION. Their time has passed. I am 80 years old and I can see where the priorities should be. God bless!

**********************************
Thanks for your logical and impartial post.

Reply
Oct 2, 2017 04:25:58   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Zemirah wrote:
Are you seeing a pattern here?

This made Cain so angry and jealous of his brother, Abel, that he attacked and killed him, thereby committing the 1st murder (Genesis 4:8).

Again, fast forward to the commandments God gave Noah after the flood had receded, and life on earth was about to begin anew. God instructed Noah that he could now eat the flesh of animals, rather than just fruits and vegetables.

Genesis 9:3 "Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.
Genesis 9:4 "Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood."

God made it very clear that because the life is in the blood, man cannot consume blood.

After this, God instituted "government" among men to maintain law and order, including capitol punishment, i.e., the legal execution of any murderer by a duly authorized government.

"And I will require the lifeblood of anyone who takes another person's life. If a wild animal kills a person, it must die. And anyone who murders a fellow human must die" (Genesis 9:5).

Do you see the understanding God has attempted to instill within man of the value and meaning He places upon the "lifeblood" of man?

Now, turn your attention to the personal righteousness a perfect, holy and just God demands of every individual.

In the Old Testament, "The wages of the righteous is life, but the earnings of the wicked are sin and death" (Proverbs 10:16).

In the book of Job, the oldest book in the Bible, Job, through faith, looking thousands of years into the future, and understanding that he, himself, would someday be brought out of his grave in his own resurrection body, said this:

"As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth. Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God; Whom I myself shall behold, And whom my eyes will see and not another. How my heart yearns within me!" (Job 19:25-27)

In the New Testament, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

"For you know that you were not redeemed from your worthless works which you received by tradition from your forefathers, not with silver which wears out, neither with gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or spot. He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but was made manifest in these last times for your sake" (1st Peter 1:18-20).

If that is more Scripture than you can bear, your question, "Why did Jesus have to die?" will never be answered to your satisfaction, for only God has the answer. It was His plan, His decision, for the benefit of all mankind who will or have believed and accepted.

No one except Jesus, being fully God and fully man, could satisfy the requirement that the debt for sin be paid in full, once for all, by the death and shed blood of a perfect sacrifice, for only God could live a perfect life, however, God being spirit could not bleed, until He became incarnate.


"Because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and of goats to take away sins.
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said: 'Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but a body You prepared for me.
In burnt offerings and sin offerings You took no delight.
Then I said, ‘Here I am, it is written about Me in the scroll: I have come to do Your will, O God.'" (Hebrews 10:4-6)
Are you seeing a pattern here? br br This made Ca... (show quote)



Many understandings of the word of God is spiritual, by the power of God (the Holy spirit ). Not discernable to non believers. God makes. Simple, man's ability to know him, and all others things then believed by faith, or revealed by the holy spirit. Your explanation "why Jesus had to die" to someone that, first has rejected the "simple " revelation from God to man, making him incapable of "second " understanding the basis of salvation leading up to Jesus, and the perfect word of God connecting the dots from the beginning of creation leading to Jesus , death, burial, and resurrection, the spotless lamb defeating death, and salvation through faith, because of what Jesus accomplished, believers also can defeat death.
Conclusion; Peters questions are out of sequence of understanding, and first needs to accept their is a God and creator his existence/actions /thoughts will be accountable to , before he can accept "why Did Jesus have to die".

God Bless you for revealing a deeper understanding of the first and earliest examples of salvation by faith, and the earliest attempts of man seeking salvation by works. I truly love when scripture opens and messages revealed. Previously I never saw past Cain and able as a story of man's first murder, or clothing Adam and Eve, the first blood sacrifice.

In Jesus,
Jack

Reply
Oct 3, 2017 14:14:37   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Thank you for your kind and wise words, Jack.

I left out two thousand or so years on that post, as I ran out of steam toward the end...


jack sequim wa wrote:
Many understandings of the word of God is spiritual, by the power of God (the Holy spirit ). Not discernable to non believers. God makes. Simple, man's ability to know him, and all others things then believed by faith, or revealed by the holy spirit. Your explanation "why Jesus had to die" to someone that, first has rejected the "simple " revelation from God to man, making him incapable of "second " understanding the basis of salvation leading up to Jesus, and the perfect word of God connecting the dots from the beginning of creation leading to Jesus , death, burial, and resurrection, the spotless lamb defeating death, and salvation through faith, because of what Jesus accomplished, believers also can defeat death.
Conclusion; Peters questions are out of sequence of understanding, and first needs to accept their is a God and creator his existence/actions /thoughts will be accountable to , before he can accept "why Did Jesus have to die".

God Bless you for revealing a deeper understanding of the first and earliest examples of salvation by faith, and the earliest attempts of man seeking salvation by works. I truly love when scripture opens and messages revealed. Previously I never saw past Cain and able as a story of man's first murder, or clothing Adam and Eve, the first blood sacrifice.

In Jesus,
Jack
Many understandings of the word of God is spiritua... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
Oct 3, 2017 14:27:58   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
Thanks for taking the time, Zemirah

Zemirah wrote:
Are you seeing a pattern here?

This made Cain so angry and jealous of his brother, Abel, that he attacked and killed him, thereby committing the 1st murder (Genesis 4:8).

Again, fast forward to the commandments God gave Noah after the flood had receded, and life on earth was about to begin anew. God instructed Noah that he could now eat the flesh of animals, rather than just fruits and vegetables.

Genesis 9:3 "Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.
Genesis 9:4 "Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood."

God made it very clear that because the life is in the blood, man cannot consume blood.

After this, God instituted "government" among men to maintain law and order, including capitol punishment, i.e., the legal execution of any murderer by a duly authorized government.

"And I will require the lifeblood of anyone who takes another person's life. If a wild animal kills a person, it must die. And anyone who murders a fellow human must die" (Genesis 9:5).

Do you see the understanding God has attempted to instill within man of the value and meaning He places upon the "lifeblood" of man?

Now, turn your attention to the personal righteousness a perfect, holy and just God demands of every individual.

In the Old Testament, "The wages of the righteous is life, but the earnings of the wicked are sin and death" (Proverbs 10:16).

In the book of Job, the oldest book in the Bible, Job, through faith, looking thousands of years into the future, and understanding that he, himself, would someday be brought out of his grave in his own resurrection body, said this:

"As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth. Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God; Whom I myself shall behold, And whom my eyes will see and not another. How my heart yearns within me!" (Job 19:25-27)

In the New Testament, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

"For you know that you were not redeemed from your worthless works which you received by tradition from your forefathers, not with silver which wears out, neither with gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or spot. He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but was made manifest in these last times for your sake" (1st Peter 1:18-20).

If that is more Scripture than you can bear, your question, "Why did Jesus have to die?" will never be answered to your satisfaction, for only God has the answer. It was His plan, His decision, for the benefit of all mankind who will or have believed and accepted.

No one except Jesus, being fully God and fully man, could satisfy the requirement that the debt for sin be paid in full, once for all, by the death and shed blood of a perfect sacrifice, for only God could live a perfect life, however, God being spirit could not bleed, until He became incarnate.


"Because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and of goats to take away sins.
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said: 'Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but a body You prepared for me.
In burnt offerings and sin offerings You took no delight.
Then I said, ‘Here I am, it is written about Me in the scroll: I have come to do Your will, O God.'" (Hebrews 10:4-6)
Are you seeing a pattern here? br br This made Ca... (show quote)

Reply
Oct 3, 2017 14:57:33   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
eagleye13 wrote:
Thanks for taking the time, Zemirah



It was a pleasure, Eagleye, once I actually started...

Thank you for thanking me.

I always gaze enviously at your avatar boat adventure.

The closest I've been to the ocean in recent years is walking the boardwalk/walkway that juts out into the Atlantic at Coney Island when visiting my daughter on the east coast.

Reply
Oct 3, 2017 16:41:11   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
Zemirah wrote:
Are you seeing a pattern here?

This made Cain so angry and jealous of his brother, Abel, that he attacked and killed him, thereby committing the 1st murder (Genesis 4:8).

Again, fast forward to the commandments God gave Noah after the flood had receded, and life on earth was about to begin anew. God instructed Noah that he could now eat the flesh of animals, rather than just fruits and vegetables.

Genesis 9:3 "Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.
Genesis 9:4 "Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood."

God made it very clear that because the life is in the blood, man cannot consume blood.

After this, God instituted "government" among men to maintain law and order, including capitol punishment, i.e., the legal execution of any murderer by a duly authorized government.

"And I will require the lifeblood of anyone who takes another person's life. If a wild animal kills a person, it must die. And anyone who murders a fellow human must die" (Genesis 9:5).

Do you see the understanding God has attempted to instill within man of the value and meaning He places upon the "lifeblood" of man?

Now, turn your attention to the personal righteousness a perfect, holy and just God demands of every individual.

In the Old Testament, "The wages of the righteous is life, but the earnings of the wicked are sin and death" (Proverbs 10:16).

In the book of Job, the oldest book in the Bible, Job, through faith, looking thousands of years into the future, and understanding that he, himself, would someday be brought out of his grave in his own resurrection body, said this:

"As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth. Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God; Whom I myself shall behold, And whom my eyes will see and not another. How my heart yearns within me!" (Job 19:25-27)

In the New Testament, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

"For you know that you were not redeemed from your worthless works which you received by tradition from your forefathers, not with silver which wears out, neither with gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or spot. He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but was made manifest in these last times for your sake" (1st Peter 1:18-20).

If that is more Scripture than you can bear, your question, "Why did Jesus have to die?" will never be answered to your satisfaction, for only God has the answer. It was His plan, His decision, for the benefit of all mankind who will or have believed and accepted.

No one except Jesus, being fully God and fully man, could satisfy the requirement that the debt for sin be paid in full, once for all, by the death and shed blood of a perfect sacrifice, for only God could live a perfect life, however, God being spirit could not bleed, until He became incarnate.


"Because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and of goats to take away sins.
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said: 'Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but a body You prepared for me.
In burnt offerings and sin offerings You took no delight.
Then I said, ‘Here I am, it is written about Me in the scroll: I have come to do Your will, O God.'" (Hebrews 10:4-6)

Absolutely outstanding!! As I read, it touched every fiber of my soul, spirit and left me with a beautiful contentment in your words...
God Bless you and I Thank You most sincerely...

Reply
Oct 4, 2017 01:21:57   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
lindajoy wrote:
Zemirah wrote:
Are you seeing a pattern here?

This made Cain so angry and jealous of his brother, Abel, that he attacked and killed him, thereby committing the 1st murder (Genesis 4:8).

Again, fast forward to the commandments God gave Noah after the flood had receded, and life on earth was about to begin anew. God instructed Noah that he could now eat the flesh of animals, rather than just fruits and vegetables.

Genesis 9:3 "Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.
Genesis 9:4 "Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood."

God made it very clear that because the life is in the blood, man cannot consume blood.

After this, God instituted "government" among men to maintain law and order, including capitol punishment, i.e., the legal execution of any murderer by a duly authorized government.

"And I will require the lifeblood of anyone who takes another person's life. If a wild animal kills a person, it must die. And anyone who murders a fellow human must die" (Genesis 9:5).

Do you see the understanding God has attempted to instill within man of the value and meaning He places upon the "lifeblood" of man?

Now, turn your attention to the personal righteousness a perfect, holy and just God demands of every individual.

In the Old Testament, "The wages of the righteous is life, but the earnings of the wicked are sin and death" (Proverbs 10:16).

In the book of Job, the oldest book in the Bible, Job, through faith, looking thousands of years into the future, and understanding that he, himself, would someday be brought out of his grave in his own resurrection body, said this:

"As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth. Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God; Whom I myself shall behold, And whom my eyes will see and not another. How my heart yearns within me!" (Job 19:25-27)

In the New Testament, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

"For you know that you were not redeemed from your worthless works which you received by tradition from your forefathers, not with silver which wears out, neither with gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or spot. He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but was made manifest in these last times for your sake" (1st Peter 1:18-20).

If that is more Scripture than you can bear, your question, "Why did Jesus have to die?" will never be answered to your satisfaction, for only God has the answer. It was His plan, His decision, for the benefit of all mankind who will or have believed and accepted.

No one except Jesus, being fully God and fully man, could satisfy the requirement that the debt for sin be paid in full, once for all, by the death and shed blood of a perfect sacrifice, for only God could live a perfect life, however, God being spirit could not bleed, until He became incarnate.


"Because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and of goats to take away sins.
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said: 'Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but a body You prepared for me.
In burnt offerings and sin offerings You took no delight.
Then I said, ‘Here I am, it is written about Me in the scroll: I have come to do Your will, O God.'" (Hebrews 10:4-6)

Absolutely outstanding!! As I read, it touched every fiber of my soul, spirit and left me with a beautiful contentment in your words...
God Bless you and I Thank You most sincerely...
Zemirah wrote: br Are you seeing a pattern here? b... (show quote)



Thank you, Linda Joy, for your kind words.

Surely, it was the quotes from God's Holy Scripture that spiritually soothed you.

Reply
 
 
Oct 4, 2017 07:26:00   #
RETW Loc: Washington
 
JW wrote:
http://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/7-3.htm

Mote and beam...






Thank you for that



RETW


Reply
Oct 6, 2017 02:44:17   #
Armageddun Loc: The show me state
 
Zemirah wrote:
Are you seeing a pattern here?

This made Cain so angry and jealous of his brother, Abel, that he attacked and killed him, thereby committing the 1st murder (Genesis 4:8).

Again, fast forward to the commandments God gave Noah after the flood had receded, and life on earth was about to begin anew. God instructed Noah that he could now eat the flesh of animals, rather than just fruits and vegetables.

Genesis 9:3 "Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.
Genesis 9:4 "Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood."

God made it very clear that because the life is in the blood, man cannot consume blood.

After this, God instituted "government" among men to maintain law and order, including capitol punishment, i.e., the legal execution of any murderer by a duly authorized government.

"And I will require the lifeblood of anyone who takes another person's life. If a wild animal kills a person, it must die. And anyone who murders a fellow human must die" (Genesis 9:5).

Do you see the understanding God has attempted to instill within man of the value and meaning He places upon the "lifeblood" of man?

Now, turn your attention to the personal righteousness a perfect, holy and just God demands of every individual.

In the Old Testament, "The wages of the righteous is life, but the earnings of the wicked are sin and death" (Proverbs 10:16).

In the book of Job, the oldest book in the Bible, Job, through faith, looking thousands of years into the future, and understanding that he, himself, would someday be brought out of his grave in his own resurrection body, said this:

"As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth. Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God; Whom I myself shall behold, And whom my eyes will see and not another. How my heart yearns within me!" (Job 19:25-27)

In the New Testament, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

"For you know that you were not redeemed from your worthless works which you received by tradition from your forefathers, not with silver which wears out, neither with gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or spot. He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but was made manifest in these last times for your sake" (1st Peter 1:18-20).

If that is more Scripture than you can bear, your question, "Why did Jesus have to die?" will never be answered to your satisfaction, for only God has the answer. It was His plan, His decision, for the benefit of all mankind who will or have believed and accepted.

No one except Jesus, being fully God and fully man, could satisfy the requirement that the debt for sin be paid in full, once for all, by the death and shed blood of a perfect sacrifice, for only God could live a perfect life, however, God being spirit could not bleed, until He became incarnate.


"Because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and of goats to take away sins.
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said: 'Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but a body You prepared for me.
In burnt offerings and sin offerings You took no delight.
Then I said, ‘Here I am, it is written about Me in the scroll: I have come to do Your will, O God.'" (Hebrews 10:4-6)
Are you seeing a pattern here? br br This made Ca... (show quote)



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for such a clear and precise answer. The doctrine of Divine Imputation becomes so clear when aided with spiritual understanding. Thank you for your kind and firm description of the reason for Jesus dying on the cross. We Christians would have more success at sharing the Gospel with positive results if more of us used your method of explaining the way in which the whole Bible is linked and centered on Jesus. We who are blessed to have come to the knowledge of spiritual truth surely need to pray for those whose minds are blinded by the god of this world.

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