My thoughts on God… (Page 6): One thing you haven't addressed JW is that a god could have created the universe and then stepped away to let it do it's thing. That would allow for a god...

PeterS

JW wrote:

I think you're missing my point. He could have des... (show quote)

One thing you haven't addressed JW is that a god could have created the universe and then stepped away to let it do it's thing. That would allow for a god and explain everything else...

JW

PeterS wrote:

One thing you haven't addressed JW is that a god could have created the universe and then stepped away to let it do it's thing. That would allow for a god and explain everything else...

That is the argument I have made in the past and the one I use when atheists claim they know there is no God. There is no way to know that. They can believe that but they can't know it. The difference between atheists and ordinary religious subscribers is they just believe in different things. Fundamentally, the brain function is identical.

JW

PeterS wrote:

One thing you haven't addressed JW is that a god could have created the universe and then stepped away to let it do it's thing. That would allow for a god and explain everything else...

http://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-105885-1.html

In that thread I refer to God as an absentee landlord. Third response, last paragraph.

There is another one where I went into greater detail but I can't find it just now. I made the argument that the universe is self-regulating, as is life on Earth and that implies an absentee deity, not an ever watchful God.

acknowledgeurma

Tiny thought that holds in wonder stars, some
Think can fathom the intervening black.
God? Do i want the anger that should come
With that belief, or anguish with the lack?

PeterS

JW wrote:

That is the argument I have made in the past and the one I use when atheists claim they know there is no God. There is no way to know that. They can believe that but they can't know it. The difference between atheists and ordinary religious subscribers is they just believe in different things. Fundamentally, the brain function is identical.

I thought the same thing for quite some time too--that's why I was an agnostic. The problem with being agnostic though is that you are simply unwilling to commit to anything. As far as I'm concerned, a god that just gets things going and then walks away is no different than there being no god at all. In the end we all wind up the same.

PeterS

JW wrote:

http://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-105885-1.html

In that thread I refer to God as an absentee landlord. Third response, last paragraph.

There is another one where I went into greater detail but I can't find it just now. I made the argument that the universe is self-regulating, as is life on Earth and that implies an absentee deity, not an ever watchful God.

Bombastic has me on ignore so I don't pay attention to his threads thus I missed your response. Myself, I simply contend that we don't understand fully how our universe was created. Not understanding doesn't imply a god, or the need for a god, simply further evolution as human beings...

Steve700

PeterS wrote:

Your post proves nothing and the Exodus doesn't prove that a god exists. You are using fallacies and anecdotal evidence for proof of god. They aren't which is why the proposition behind god is purely irrational.

Of course it does. You're talking about miracles supernaturally performed. (Obviously by God) If chariot wheels and chariots without wheels and course bones are found in that narrowest and shallowest crossing of the Red Sea. It proves that the Bible is true and correct. And if the Bible is true and correct. It proves God and that Christianity is the correct religion. You have to be brain-dead to deny that. And I told you they found giant Split rock and evidence in rubble from that rock in a path from from that rock that gave the Israelites freshwater and the sacrificial altar Bose set up, all in that location. You have to be brain-dead to say that all proves nothing. And yet that is only a tinyPart of the totality of the amount of evidence that says the Bible is true and correct. People don't believe because they want to be their own God and refuse to take a good, open-minded, rational and logical, look into the evidence. More and more evidence of cities and whole previously unverified peoples continue to be discovered and these modern years proving the validity of the Bible more and more, Plus the mountain of fruits and fulfilling and fulfilled Bible prophecy (eschatology) in and of itself, is overwhelming, but so few know much of anything about it..

Steve700

slatten49 wrote:

Albert Einstein’s rejection of a personal God was ... (show quote)

Using the beliefs of Einstein to disprove God is pointless, since God set things up with so many indicators that would disprove Him to the rebellious mind. He wants volunteers who put truth 1st. Only then will you come to know. Whether one believes or not is not a matter of intelligence, but the leanings of the heart.

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

Steve700 wrote:

Using the beliefs of Einstein to disprove God is pointless, since God set things up with so many indicators that would disprove Him to the rebellious mind. He wants volunteers who put truth 1st. Only then will you come to know. Whether one believes or not is not a matter of intelligence, but the leanings of the heart.

Einstein called himself an agnostic rather than an atheist, stating: "I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal god is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being." In an interview published by the German poet George Sylvester Viereck, Einstein stated, "I am not an Atheist." According to Prince Hubertus, Einstein said, "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."

Einstein expressed a sentiment in his book 'The World as I See It'... "I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the type of which we are conscious in ourselves. An individual who should survive his physical death is also beyond my comprehension, nor do I wish it otherwise; such notions are for the fears or absurd egoism of feeble souls. Enough for me the mystery of the eternity of life, and the inkling of the marvellous structure of reality, together with the single-hearted endeavour to comprehend a portion, be it never so tiny, of the reason that manifests itself in nature."

Einstein wrote, "I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of His children for their numerous stupidities, for which only He Himself can be held responsible; in my opinion, only His nonexistence could excuse Him." He also stated, "I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own — a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms."

goofball Loc: timbucktoo

There is an old saying: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!

Betta

It's called free will choice to do good or to do evil. Not God's fault that many, too many in fact, choose to do evil. God does not force anyone to follow him. He wants us to choose Him freely. Don't let the evil that people choose to do make you question or lose faith in God. Don't blame Him when people choose to rebel. All of that will be put down one day. You know that. Stick close to Him even in your darkest of days. Renew your relationship with Him. He sincerely loves you and does not want you to be lost. Be encouraged. His arm is out stretched still.

JW wrote:

Let me begin by stating that I am an agnostic. For those who may not understand, an agnostic is not opposed to God nor opposed to religion as such. An agnostic is someone who has looked into his soul and found a void. An agnostic is someone who has searched but been unable to reach some rational conclusion other than I just don't know. No, I did not start out as an agnostic. I started out as a young man as a sincerely born again Christian and thought I had found the answer to that which so many seek, what is the meaning of life.

Perhaps my Christian past explains why I find so many Christian ideals admirable and laudable. However, I prefer to think that I find them so because they are fundamentally decent in a world that is anything but fundamentally decent.

That is where my problem with God begins.

If God is as advertised, capable of creating a fully functionally human creature and a complete universe in which to house and challenge him, why create one so fatally flawed?

Why create a universe whose most fundamental rule is that for one creature to survive, another must die? I know the argument, God created man so he could have a perfect communion and man failed Him… and that is the second problem I have with God. If God could see everything, past and future, He must have known man would fail Him. Knowing that and the unbounded pain and suffering it would bring into His world, why would He do it?

Ah, yes, I have heard that too. God wanted a way to separate the wheat from the chaff… but again, surely a God who knows all also knows which is the wheat and which is the chaff without beating them apart, without the flail. God is not some inveterate farmer, cursed to repeat His great-great-grandfather’s ancient ritual for gathering the makings of a loaf of bread. God is the all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful Creator of everything that is… so why does He create a universe designed to inflict pain and suffering on everything that lives?

If God is at the root of all of the rules of the universe, why are their results so terribly flawed? Why does he behave so much like an absentee landlord of some semi-abandoned rent controlled tenement block? If God is all that He is advertised to be, why doesn’t He perform beyond human expectations instead of barely meeting them.

Let me begin by stating that I am an agnostic. For... (show quote)

JW

PeterS wrote:

I thought the same thing for quite some time too--that's why I was an agnostic. The problem with being agnostic though is that you are simply unwilling to commit to anything. As far as I'm concerned, a god that just gets things going and then walks away is no different than there being no god at all. In the end we all wind up the same.

Commitment to an idea that lacks proof is just another form of religion. I remain agnostic because, as I see it, intellectual honesty demands it.

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

PeterS wrote:

I thought the same thing for quite some time too--that's why I was an agnostic. The problem with being agnostic though is that you are simply unwilling to commit to anything. As far as I'm concerned, a god that just gets things going and then walks away is no different than there being no god at all. In the end we all wind up the same.

I agree Peter. Too bad you're such a liberal antitrumper. Ar! Sunday humor.

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

JW wrote:

I think you're missing my point. He could have des... (show quote)

Perhaps you are missing my point?? Once again I suggest The Almighty did design us in perfect harmony and gave us choice.. Forbidding the fruit he laid choice before us.. Good and the "Heaven " he created for us to live in or bad and what we then create for ourself..

Perhaps he was bored with the perfect universe created and wanted to watch us develop?? I can not answer your excellent questions..

Intellect requires varifiiability in order to accept a premise.. God believe requires a lot of faith and acceptance.. The two do not bring the same result..Yet they do work in harmony of each other..

I accept the premise of Jesus as the Son of God yet question much of what is said of Jesus as well.. I can only answer you by saying in my years of study of many religions (all lacking ) I chose to find my way in self study..

Many can quote chapter and verse, I can not yet I know them when quoted..It all boils down to ones personal interpretation and reality.. For me they are mechanics used to promote a righteousness or goodness.. My belief in God sustains itself in my faith and acceptance.. Am I then stupid or does my intellect define my choice???

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

nwtk2007 wrote:

I agree Peter. Too bad you're such a liberal antitrumper. Ar! Sunday humor.

Are you an atheist, nwtk??