THAT is truly SAD!

Did you not know, it was the patristics who used the Heretical argument that the "Phoenix" - that ancient mythical bird from Egypt, is God's example of the Resurrection:


[Apostolic Fathers Vol.III - p.554]
[The Writings Of [color=blue]Tertullian[/color] (a.d.145-220); On The Resurrection Of The Flesh]

Chap.XIII From our author's view of a verse in the ninety second Psalm,[verse twelve, which references the "phoinix" which is a Palm Tree.] the phoenix is made a symbol of the resurrection of our bodies.

If however, all nature but faintly figures our resurrection; if creation affords no sign precisely like it


[Apostolic Fathers Vol.I - p.12]
[The First Epistle Of [color=darkgreen]Clement[/color] (a.d.100-200) To The Corinthians]

"Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the resurrection] which takes place in Eastern lands, that is in Arabia and the countries round about."

"There is a certain bird which is called a Phoenix. This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies."

"But, as the flesh decays, a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the dead bird, brings forth feathers."

"Then, when it has aquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis."

"And in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens back to its former abode."

"The priests then inspect the registers of the dates, and find that it has returned exactly as the five hundredth year was completed."

"Do we then deem it any great and wonderful thing for the maker of all things to raise up again those that have piously served him in that assurance of faith, when even by a bird, he shows us the mightiness of his power to fulfill his promise?"

Both of these ancient SCHOLARS read the old testament reference to the Palm Tree, which in the Greek, is -

foinikwn = genitive masculine plural form of noun Foinix Phoenix = palm-tree; palm branch
Exodus 15:27 And they came to Elim, where were twelve wells of water, and threescore and ten [foinikwn] palm trees: and they encamped there by the waters.

John 12:13 Took branches of [foinikwn] palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
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foinix = nominative masculine singular form of noun Foinix Phoenix palm-tree; palm branch
Psalm 92:12 The righteous shall flourish like the [foinix] palm tree: he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon.

foinikes = nominative masculine plural form of noun Foinix Phoenix palm-tree; palm branch
Ezekiel 41:18 And it was made with cherubims and [foinikes] palm trees, so that a palm tree was between a cherub and a cherub; and every cherub had two faces;

Why would I consult them on anything having to do with scripture?

When you rely upon the Early Church Fathers for understanding, you are reading books ABOUT the scripture, you are not reading the SCRIPTURES.

So you're prejudiced against Roman Catholics and you assume I am a Roman Catholic right? God save us from ignorance and religious prejudice and the division and killing it has caused. Grab hold of yourself, I'm not a Roman Catholic. The trouble with the majority of Protestant religions is they have no history that goes back over 500 years. If you did you would know that the practice of asking Jesus' mother to intercede for us is ancient. Do you know the difference between asking someone to pray FOR you and praying TO them? If you understood Mary's remarkable contribution to your salvation, the mere fact that all heaven held its breath waiting for her answer and then heaven bursting with joy when she said "yes" you might not be afraid of her. Jesus' first miracle was done because His mother asked Him to do it. There are many mothers you may disrespect in your life but you'd be a fool to disrespect and not honor Mary because she is the only mother that was chosen by her son to be His mother. And what a Son He is. If I ask you to pray for me and you do then that is the same kind of intercession as asking Mary to pray for me. And scripture does tell us to pray for one another.

Explain the scripture where Jesus gave authority to the apostles that those sins they forgive or those sins they retain are bound in both heaven and earth. Did Jesus establish a Christian church in which after the apostles died He expected and advocated everyone could then do their own thing, make their own rules and even rewrite scripture? Perhaps you might need to reconsider that there is still much for you learn? I'm confident you would agree that our God, being a God of perfect order, would not advocate a helter skelter Christian church. Yet for the first 1500 years of Christianity there were only two branches of the Christian church - The East (Orthodox) and the West, Rome. 80 years after the Reformation there were over 200 different protestant denominations. Today, 500 years after the reformation, there are over 25,000 different sects, sub sects, denominations etc., all using the same basic Bible and each having their own interpretations. Now tell me the truth who is being served by all the infighting, divisions, different interpretations? Who benefits by generating a confusing, contradictory argumentative and divisive Christian faith? In Jesus' High Priestly prayer (John 17) He prayed that we all be one.

So you're prejudiced against Roman Catholics and you assume I am a Roman Catholic right? God save us from ignorance and religious prejudice and the division and killing it has caused. Grab hold of yourself, I'm not a Roman Catholic. The trouble with the majority of Protestant religions is they have no history that goes back over 500 years. If you did you would know that the practice of asking Jesus' mother to intercede for us is ancient. Do you know the difference between asking someone to pray FOR you and praying TO them? If you understood Mary's remarkable contribution to your salvation, the mere fact that all heaven held its breath waiting for her answer and then heaven bursting with joy when she said "yes" you might not be afraid of her. Jesus' first miracle was done because His mother asked Him to do it. There are many mothers you may disrespect in your life but you'd be a fool to disrespect and not honor Mary because she is the only mother that was chosen by her son to be His mother. And what a Son He is. If I ask you to pray for me and you do then that is the same kind of intercession as asking Mary to pray for me. And scripture does tell us to pray for one another.

Explain the scripture where Jesus gave authority to the apostles that those sins they forgive or those sins they retain are bound in both heaven and earth. Did Jesus establish a Christian church in which after the apostles died He expected and advocated everyone could then do their own thing, make their own rules and even rewrite scripture? Perhaps you might need to reconsider that there is still much for you learn? I'm confident you would agree that our God, being a God of perfect order, would not advocate a helter skelter Christian church. Yet for the first 1500 years of Christianity there were only two branches of the Christian church - The East (Orthodox) and the West, Rome. 80 years after the Reformation there were over 200 different protestant denominations. Today, 500 years after the reformation, there are over 25,000 different sects, sub sects, denominations etc., all using the same basic Bible and each having their own interpretations. Now tell me the truth who is being served by all the infighting, divisions, different interpretations? Who benefits by generating a confusing, contradictory argumentative and divisive Christian faith? In Jesus' High Priestly prayer (John 17) He prayed that we all be one.

That's the truth. For reasons I need not mention, I left the church I had been attending. Some time after that I bumped into a member of the congregation who told me I was going to hell now that I had abandoned the church. I chuckled and told him that I hadn't abandoned Yahshua, nor had He abandoned me, that Yahshua is my savior, my teacher, my guide and my friend, not the church.

Seems many Christian churches and pastors these days have drifted from the fundamental purpose of a church and succumbed to PC. Shame.

You have it all backwards. You believe what science tells you, even though they can't back it up with evidence. Scientists don't know how, or why, the universe exists. This is a fact. They claim that just because they don't know now, they will know someday. They reject the possibility of the Creator, without evidence for or against. You put your faith in science, yet what is science? Science is a process that uses repeatable experiments to try to understand the natural would. In our search for knowledge, we have discovered some pretty amazing things. Universal constants. The complexity of life. Quantum mechanics. Atheists look at all of that, and believe that all of that order and complexity was the result of natural processes. But they can't even begin to explain how, or why, it all happened. What does that sound like? It sounds like FAITH. Christians look at the same evidence and see the hand of the Creator. Neither side has any proof. That's also a fact. But both sides do have evidence. Reason and logic, as well as every scientific observation available, tell us that nothing physical can create itself. They also tell us that everything physical has a beginning and an end. The claim that energy has always existed is just that. A unsupported claim. It's nothing more than an assumption, because they cannot explain why it exists in the first place. Christians do know. It was created. Bottom line. If the universe is the result of naturalistic processes, then it created itself. But who, or what, created the energy it formed from? Everything, from information theory, to biology, to genetics show that a naturalistic origin of life is next to impossible. The more we learn, the worse it looks for the atheist viewpoint. People like you look at the wonders of the universe and take them for granted. What a dull and meaningless life you live.

Geezuz - what a bunch of - well... Do not ANY of you wish proof positive of 'God' existence - when there is SO much research to the non??? As well as daily everyday living???

AND major scholarly researchers indicating ALL biblical Toma's - are stories - some truth - most fiction??? How do any of you justify leaning on something called 'faith'???

WHY can you not man & woman up and be responsible for your own lives & action??? WHY does a non- existent entity excuse you from being a total - good - human in your own right? WHY the phrase "god's will"...???

Yeah..

Let's just count all Gods will death & destruction projects - all of em ... Big and smalll...

But YOU do it... And have your peadophile preachers, in their vast & rich churches/congregations help along the way..

AND do you know, are you aware - Jesus NEVER delivered a message to create 'religion'..
His was a message to help each other - if one could. If one could... And strive always toward that.... No God... Just humanity...

Spoiler alert - not one single word or commentary BY Jesus in any " written word"/am aware of. Nothing....

All the other people with writings in the so-called biblical journal has been written and rewritten so many times if you thought about it - your head would explode... JUST LIKE ALL religious tomas.... Why do do so few not consider these studies & sources of them.

ISIS/DAESH or whatever the hell they are - are not of the 'devil' they are of the very evil hearted, 'god believers' in our governments...

God did not die, ignore or leave the building - just never was... Never will be.

Far be it from lil ol me to open anyone's mind to such a heinous possibility..

As you were - carry on....
.

I am agnostic, so I will grant you that atheism is based on faith, since the actual mechanisms of evolution, the planets and stars, the complexity of nature can't yet be explained. Yet is the key word. But to invent a creator and believe in a hereafter fueled by living a moral and ethical life reminds one of a magic kingdom which extorts one to behave, or live in ways acceptable to a civilization. Is modern civilization superior to what The Native American Indian societies had before they were almost completely wiped out? Could there be more than one god? Why not? Why must one believe in the fables written in the Bible? The concept that Jesus died for human sins is incredible. I don't think the one god, one savior story washes. Too many miracles for my taste. Why don't we just put the idea of God aside and live the best life we believe we can live? Why do we need a book or religion to justify our existence and provide the great comfort of a type of life after death? Is the fear of death, of the unknown, why we have religion? I do not need one faith or the other, atheism or organized religion. My intent is to enjoy life in a moral and ethical way until I cease existing. When I cease existing it will be as if I have never been.