Who really caused the government shutdown? (Page 5): Empty words with empty meaning. As an idependent, formerly a Democrat, I could change the Republican term with a Democrat term and...

Dave Loc: Upstate New York

watchout wrote:

One of the first lessons in Republican Training Classes is to memorize the conclusions and assessments of Republican politicians and media mouths. The second lesson involves learning to project the party's politicians' faults onto the other party. Any loyal Republican follower has mastered these techniques. They are useful for cutting off unsettling conversation and for raising the follower's self-esteem.

Empty words with empty meaning. As an idependent, formerly a Democrat, I could change the Republican term with a Democrat term and it would be equally empty and meaningless.

astrolite

Dave wrote:

The House has the authority to pass whatever the majority wants to - just like it did when Democrats were the majority.

As to political theater, as a retired military I'd think using the families of those KIA for political theater by Obama would be more than a little disgusting to you.

Dave, You wouldn't be disgusted if you had one of those "Work at home jobs, make lots of money on your computer" "The Democrat office of Mis-information" is hiring trolls! The only requirement is you give up all morals and adopt the agenda of Saul Alinksi ! You get paid to type in high sounding false facts to glorify the Obama Administration! They have lots of money, it's not like it's real, just the taxpayers money, and they just "know" that only "they" have a mandate to spend it all!

astrolite

Dave wrote:

Again, you are missing the very important fact that subsequent votes by the House did exactly that - it funded the ACA but included a one year delay on the individual mandate. Are you ignoring that fact out of ignorance or for a purpose.

Absolutely for a purpose!

RetNavyCWO Loc: VA suburb of DC

Not-a-RINO wrote:

Okay, I have read your tirade and now I am going t... (show quote)

I think you are deluded, fella.

1. Reform of the medical industry is certainly needed. That is another subject that is beside the point!

2. Premiums are not doubling! That's Fox News B.S.! Factor in the subsidies. There are certainly a small percentage of policies that cover only catastrophic health issues that people bought more because of their low premiums than because they wanted deductibles of $5,000 or more. Yes, there are some policies on the exchanges with high deductibles, but they also have preventive care covered with little or no deductibles. Preventive care helps save both the insureds and the government money. In the meantime, and for the past 20+ years, they go to emergency rooms at MY expense!

3. Crap not worth responding to.

4. As a former insurance agent (tho still currently up-to-date on CE and licensed to sell health insurance), I KNOW how little people understand about their insurance policies. So...yes, I think it is great that the ACA requires higher quality provisions. We have all heard for years of people who became bankrupt because their health insurance didn't cover treatments. Medicare supplements have had minimal standardized provisions since 1992, and long-term care insurance has had minimal standardized provisions since 1998. Companies differentiate themselves in the market by adding other bells & whistles, but basic policies all have the same minimum standards.

5. I am not an avid supporter of health insurance paying for contraceptives, but I do think it should pay for exams and treatments associated with them. And I think the Catholic church is deluded in not acknowledging that 95% of Catholic women in the U.S. use contraception. I also don't think there is anything wrong with health insurance paying to abort unwanted pregnancies. I am all for limiting how far into a pregnancy abortion should be allowed. 20 weeks, as it is now I believe, sounds about right. I think that should be a discussion for another thread. If abortions from medical professionals aren't allowed, we will have pre-1971 situations in which women got abortions with clothes hangers in back alleys. Been there, done that, not good for anybody.

6. Employers have been reducing the number of full-time workers to part-time status for years now. Has nothing to do with Obamacare. It might in the future, and some employers have been using Obamacare as an excuse already to cut workers' hours. Employers will feel the effects of cutting their work forces to part-time: they will lose good employees who choose to work elsewhere. The market will decide those employers' fates. It might take a while, but it will happen.

The suggestion that allowing people to buy insurance across state lines has a couple of serious problems with it: (1) it would require that state governments give up control of what policies are sold in their states, and (2) policies are priced based upon the actuarial factors in the states and EVEN COUNTIES in which they are sold. If you are in Mississippi and want to buy a policy from an insurer in another state, that insurer is still going to be required to price it based upon local experience in Mississippi. Does it make any sense for an insurance company to sell the same policy in Montana that they sell in New York? Of course not! Over time, companies selling policies through the exchanges will compete for price, and the market will ultimately determine their cost.

I agree that HSA's don't only help the wealthy, but increasing the amounts of money that people can put in these tax-free accounts would benefit only the wealthy. Existing limits are already higher than what most poor and middle-class taxpayers can meet.

Why is the ability to keep a 25-and-under "child" on its parent's policy a problem for you? It's not like the coverage is free! They still pay for it! I am not current on typical charges for most plans, but I know that the cost to keep a child beyond age 21 for the military's TRICARE plan is $156-$180 per month.

The whole canard about Obamacare being about control is just ridiculous. You appear to be of the ilk that thinks Obama is going to find a way to get reelected into a third term so he can impose martial law and become a dictator. To that I say, get a new tinfoil hat!

Not-a-RINO Loc: Michigan

Dave wrote:

Again, you are missing the very important fact that subsequent votes by the House did exactly that - it funded the ACA but included a one year delay on the individual mandate. Are you ignoring that fact out of ignorance or for a purpose.

Dave--

It is obvious you and I have the same position with regards to ObamaCare and addressed those concerns raised by RetNavy already. Perhaps he is too regimented to think for himself and needs his "superiors" to make decisions for him? My position is to empower people to make the right choices with government addressing a few issues that impedes competition and/or access to affordable care. When you think about the real reason the government was formed in the first place - to guarantee your liberties - you can see it does have a valid function by helping remove restrictions, but let the free market with free citizens making the best choices with their money for their own family. Empower people, not government may be too "radical" for some people.

Have an awesome week! :)

astrolite

RetNavyCWO wrote:

I think you are deluded, fella.

1. Reform of the medical industry is certainly needed. That is another subject that is beside the point!

2. Premiums are not doubling! That's Fox News B.S.! Factor in the subsidies. There are certainly a small percentage of policies that cover only catastrophic health issues that people bought more because of their low premiums than because they wanted deductibles of $5,000 or more. Yes, there are some policies on the exchanges with high deductibles, but they also have preventive care covered with little or no deductibles. Preventive care helps save both the insureds and the government money. In the meantime, and for the past 20+ years, they go to emergency rooms at MY expense!

3. Crap not worth responding to.

4. As a former insurance agent (tho still currently up-to-date on CE and licensed to sell health insurance), I KNOW how little people understand about their insurance policies. So...yes, I think it is great that the ACA requires higher quality provisions. We have all heard for years of people who became bankrupt because their health insurance didn't cover treatments. Medicare supplements have had minimal standardized provisions since 1992, and long-term care insurance has had minimal standardized provisions since 1998. Companies differentiate themselves in the market by adding other bells & whistles, but basic policies all have the same minimum standards.

5. I am not an avid supporter of health insurance paying for contraceptives, but I do think it should pay for exams and treatments associated with them. And I think the Catholic church is deluded in not acknowledging that 95% of Catholic women in the U.S. use contraception. I also don't think there is anything wrong with health insurance paying to abort unwanted pregnancies. I am all for limiting how far into a pregnancy abortion should be allowed. 20 weeks, as it is now I believe, sounds about right. I think that should be a discussion for another thread. If abortions from medical professionals aren't allowed, we will have pre-1971 situations in which women got abortions with clothes hangers in back alleys. Been there, done that, not good for anybody.

6. Employers have been reducing the number of full-time workers to part-time status for years now. Has nothing to do with Obamacare. It might in the future, and some employers have been using Obamacare as an excuse already to cut workers' hours. Employers will feel the effects of cutting their work forces to part-time: they will lose good employees who choose to work elsewhere. The market will decide those employers' fates. It might take a while, but it will happen.

The suggestion that allowing people to buy insurance across state lines has a couple of serious problems with it: (1) it would require that state governments give up control of what policies are sold in their states, and (2) policies are priced based upon the actuarial factors in the states and EVEN COUNTIES in which they are sold. If you are in Mississippi and want to buy a policy from an insurer in another state, that insurer is still going to be required to price it based upon local experience in Mississippi. Does it make any sense for an insurance company to sell the same policy in Montana that they sell in New York? Of course not! Over time, companies selling policies through the exchanges will compete for price, and the market will ultimately determine their cost.

I agree that HSA's don't only help the wealthy, but increasing the amounts of money that people can put in these tax-free accounts would benefit only the wealthy. Existing limits are already higher than what most poor and middle-class taxpayers can meet.

Why is the ability to keep a 25-and-under "child" on its parent's policy a problem for you? It's not like the coverage is free! They still pay for it! I am not current on typical charges for most plans, but I know that the cost to keep a child beyond age 21 for the military's TRICARE plan is $156-$180 per month.

The whole canard about Obamacare being about control is just ridiculous. You appear to be of the ilk that thinks Obama is going to find a way to get reelected into a third term so he can impose martial law and become a dictator. To that I say, get a new tinfoil hat!

I think you are deluded, fella. br br 1. Refor... (show quote)

An insurance salesman! Like a used car salesman, a PROFESSIONAL liar! One who is a good liar gets rich, one who has a conscience starves to death! In our civilization the only person with less creditability is a politican! There you have it! You are good enough to go into politics!

Dave Loc: Upstate New York

astrolite wrote:

Dave, You wouldn't be disgusted if you had one of ... (show quote)

Perhaps reading comprehension isn't a major life skill of yours.

astrolite

Dave wrote:

Perhaps reading comprehension isn't a major life skill of yours.

Maybe I should have put the word "Either" after the word disgusting? Would that be more comprehensible? I was refering to EMarine and RetNavy CWO, as trolls?

Dave Loc: Upstate New York

astrolite wrote:

Maybe I should have put the word "Either" after the word disgusting? Would that be more comprehensible? I was refering to EMarine and RetNavy CWO, as trolls?

My apologies - thought you were referring to me - certainly am not an Obamacare supporter

RetNavyCWO Loc: VA suburb of DC

astrolite wrote:

An insurance salesman! Like a used car salesman, a PROFESSIONAL liar! One who is a good liar gets rich, one who has a conscience starves to death! In our civilization the only person with less creditability is a politican! There you have it! You are good enough to go into politics!

What an ass!

Bigmac495 Loc: Indiana

faithistheword wrote:

1. It's still a bloody mess, and always will be.
2. The actual unemployment rate is about 16%, when factoring in all the people who have given up, and the people who were cut to part-time.
3. We HAD the best Health Care system in the world before this debacle. If you were uninsured, you still got taken care of.
4. obamacare will never work without breaking the back of the American public. PERIOD!!

Actually : I agree , people had access to health care , all counties have free clinic's and at least 1 hospital that will accept any patient in need without proof of insurance !
How can anybody say ACA is great when it is 2000 pages long with 6000 ( ? ) pages of amendants . How does any one person know . I don't need 8000 pages of legal talk to tell me how to treat the Flu !
Over 90 % of all politicians are probably lawyers , what is your opinion of lawyers ? I know what my opinion is !
Obama care probably has mores pages of instructions that a manual on how to build a rocket to go to the moon !

Bigmac495 Loc: Indiana

RetNavyCWO wrote:

What an ass!

Chief :
You have been programed to follow orders by the government . Hopefully you are re-tired now ! You can think for yourself now !
My policy is : I don't believe anybody , even my own mother !

RetNavyCWO Loc: VA suburb of DC

Bigmac495 wrote:

Chief :
You have been programed to follow orders by the government . Hopefully you are re-tired now ! You can think for yourself now !
My policy is : I don't believe anybody , even my own mother !

WTF do you know about my career? If I was programmed, it was to believe that Republicans had the best interests of America at heart during the Reagan Administration (when I was a Republican). I have been retired for more than 21 years now, and the Republican party that "programmed" me no longer exists.

RetNavyCWO Loc: VA suburb of DC

Dave wrote:

The House has the authority to pass whatever the majority wants to - just like it did when Democrats were the majority.

As to political theater, as a retired military I'd think using the families of those KIA for political theater by Obama would be more than a little disgusting to you.

What disgusts me are those who cherry pick bits of facts to skew the truth.

Dave Loc: Upstate New York

RetNavyCWO wrote:

What disgusts me are those who cherry pick bits of facts to skew the truth.

Are you suggesting I cherry picked a bit of a fact? Are you suggesting I skewed the truth? Are you capable of citing something more specific, or was you disgust general, or perhaps you support using the families?