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What is wrong with more thorough back ground checks and, restrict people on the terrorist watch list from buying guns?
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Jun 21, 2016 10:57:15   #
Tasine Loc: Southwest US
 
lpnmajor wrote:
The simple answer is; nothing - except Democrats want it. Now, had Obama and/or the Democrats called for open carry Nation wide, the GOP would have come out swinging against it - because they feel they have to.

To be fair, the Democrats act the same stupid way. If a Republican called for clean water, the Democrats would introduce a bill repealing the clean water act.

I swear, every time I see the Congress in action, I have to make sure I haven't gotten onto the kindergarten channel by mistake.
The simple answer is; nothing - except Democrats w... (show quote)

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You may finally do as I do: do not watch or listen or donate to ANY POLITICIAN OR WANNABE POLITICIAN. Treat them as lepers. They are NOT your friends.

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Jun 21, 2016 14:40:47   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
Morgan wrote:
It isn't about putting everyone on a watch list, this is about putting suspicious people who are on a watch to wait until they are cleared.


Did you read my post? I think I will have one of my law enforcement friends call and report you for suspicious activity and have YOU put on a list. Morgan, that is literally all it takes. Which part of no due process and no proof did you overlook? The standards for getting put on one of these lists would be thrown out of any court. People are put on it with no proof, and have to hire a lawyer at their own expense to clear their names. Is THAT what you want? NO PROOF IS REQUIRED. People are put on this list for reasons that would not justify a judge issuing any sort of warrant, even for a search. If you know a cop or LEO, you could have ME put on one. Personally, I really cannot afford a lawyer's fees at this time to be taken off. You might be on the list yourself, because your name is similar to someone else's. Don't bother to ask. They won't tell you if you are on one or not.
The idea of a terror watch list sounds good, but it is a complete disaster when it comes down to actually doing one, because of the slack requirements and the even slacker bureaucrats who compile these lists.

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Jun 21, 2016 14:42:55   #
Big Bass
 
Morgan wrote:
Clearly with polls taken the majority of the people on both sides of the fence are for this, so why what's the problem with passing the bill?


It pisses off the muslims - AND obama.

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Jun 21, 2016 15:06:00   #
Tasine Loc: Southwest US
 
Loki wrote:
Did you read my post? I think I will have one of my law enforcement friends call and report you for suspicious activity and have YOU put on a list. Morgan, that is literally all it takes. Which part of no due process and no proof did you overlook? The standards for getting put on one of these lists would be thrown out of any court. People are put on it with no proof, and have to hire a lawyer at their own expense to clear their names. Is THAT what you want? NO PROOF IS REQUIRED. People are put on this list for reasons that would not justify a judge issuing any sort of warrant, even for a search. If you know a cop or LEO, you could have ME put on one. Personally, I really cannot afford a lawyer's fees at this time to be taken off. You might be on the list yourself, because your name is similar to someone else's. Don't bother to ask. They won't tell you if you are on one or not.
The idea of a terror watch list sounds good, but it is a complete disaster when it comes down to actually doing one, because of the slack requirements and the even slacker bureaucrats who compile these lists.
Did you read my post? I think I will have one of m... (show quote)

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None are so blind as those who will not open their eyes.....

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Jun 21, 2016 17:03:58   #
Hemiman Loc: Communist California
 
Tasine wrote:
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None are so blind as those who will not open their eyes.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ br br img s... (show quote)


And this Morgan is as blind as a bat.

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Jun 21, 2016 17:39:07   #
Morgan
 
Loki wrote:
The majority of people, apparently you also, no offense, don't realize that there are at least 25,000 US citizens on these lists. It is not "a" list, there are at least three. You can be put on this list basically on someone's unsupported word, or by mistake, and you have very little in the way of a remedy. There have been several people put on the list by mistake who have had to go to court at their own expense to clear their names. Included on this list are toddlers under the age of five, at least 2 US Marshals, a number of active duty service people who had the misfortune to have a name similar to someone else who was on the list, probably wrongfully. A nun was put on this list, as were Senator Ted Kennedy, a Georgia Congressman, and a Cub Scout.
The list compilers place more than 98% of the "recommendations" on the list. Most are unproven accusations, or mistaken identity. The standards for making this list would be thrown out of any court. How would you like to be one of the 25,000 plus innocent US citizens placed on a terror watch list, with no proof, no due process, no chance to face your accuser, and have to engage the service of an attorney at your own expense to clear your name?
Do you support a law that would be blatantly unconstitutional, because it violates the Second, Fourth, Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments? Do you think that inalienable rights are actually privileges to be extended or revoked at the whim of the Government du jour? Lastly, do you ACTUALLY think there are 25,000 US citizens who deserve to be on a terrorist watch list?
The majority of people, apparently you also, no of... (show quote)



Point taken, if this is what the lists consists of, maybe the list should be taken more seriously by the processors on who goes on it and have a more stringent profiling procedure. With that being said If a person would be red flagged as a danger to society to the point of not being allowed to fly a plane with others, I certainly would think that would not entitle him/her to buy a gun.

I don't believe one should have to go through expense and to clear himself, and the government should put in effort to expedite an approval.

As far as 25000, innocent people, that is only about.00008 of the population, that sounds like they're doing their job for home security.

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Jun 21, 2016 17:48:08   #
Hemiman Loc: Communist California
 
Morgan wrote:
Point taken, if this is what the lists consists of, maybe the list should be taken more seriously by the processors on who goes on it and have a more stringent profiling procedure. With that being said If a person would be red flagged as a danger to society to the point of not being allowed to fly a plane with others, I certainly would think that would not entitle him/her to buy a gun.

I don't believe one should have to go through expense and to clear himself, and the government should be efforts to expedite an approval.

As far as 25000, innocent people, that is only about.00008 of the population, that sounds like they're doing their job for home security.
Point taken, if this is what the lists consists of... (show quote)


You still miss the point,all it takes to get on the list is an angry wife/husband to infer that one is unhinged and on the list they go.Thei list is also used as a reference for many other situations,if you were put on it today you could look forward too many years and many dollars trying to get off.

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Jun 21, 2016 18:02:04   #
Morgan
 
Super Dave wrote:
1. It gives the admin unilateral power to revoke the Bill of Rights. Can those on the list be denied any other constitutionally guaranteed rights? Speech? Lawyer? Privacy?

2. If someone is too dangerous to fly or own a gun, they should not be allowed in day cares, sports arena, shopping malls, public parks, hospitals and elementary schools without a police escort.

3. Remember the IRS targeted Conservatives already.



No offense but I think you're going over the edge here, no one is revoking the Bill of Rights and even a criminal gets a lawyer if he can't afford one and due process. What I'm seeing is people want protection but they want to tie the hands of the enforcement to do it. And if someone is a danger I sure as hell don't want him working in a daycare or school, do you? There needs to be a evaluation and than be done with it.

I see what you're saying, logic and reason must prevail and to ensure the government doesn't overstep.

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Jun 21, 2016 18:13:27   #
Hemiman Loc: Communist California
 
Morgan wrote:
No offense but I think you're going over the edge here, no one is revoking the Bill of Rights and even a criminal gets a lawyer if he can't afford one and due process. What I'm seeing is people want protection but they want to tie the hands of the enforcement to do it. And if someone is a danger I sure as hell don't want him working in a daycare or school, do you? There needs to be a evaluation and than be done with it.

I see what you're saying, logic and reason must prevail and to ensure the government doesn't overstep.
No offense but I think you're going over the edge ... (show quote)


You're last sentence,how would you go about doing that?

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Jun 21, 2016 18:36:22   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
Morgan wrote:
Point taken, if this is what the lists consists of, maybe the list should be taken more seriously by the processors on who goes on it and have a more stringent profiling procedure. With that being said If a person would be red flagged as a danger to society to the point of not being allowed to fly a plane with others, I certainly would think that would not entitle him/her to buy a gun.

I don't believe one should have to go through expense and to clear himself, and the government should put in effort to expedite an approval.

As far as 25000, innocent people, that is only about.00008 of the population, that sounds like they're doing their job for home security.
Point taken, if this is what the lists consists of... (show quote)


Home Security? I forgot to mention, there were 72 DHS employees on the list also. I believe most of them were TSA. Some security. The people who make you stand in line at airports so they can grope you are on the list. I have a better idea. How about the idiots who put innocent people on the list pay their legal fees? That should get their attention. The 25,000 plus figure that I gave is that absolute lowest figure of US citizens on these lists. Some estimates are much higher, and no one knows for sure, because the only way you can find out is to try to purchase an airline ticket. It's kind of ironic that a US Marshal cannot board a plane but the prisoner he is transporting is allowed.
Your tax dollars at work. You want to give these incompetent, overpaid and underbrained peckerheads even more power to stomp all over the Bill of Rights. An inalienable right is or isn't. It's not a part time, situational thing,dependent on some asswipe politician's definition of "need."

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Jun 21, 2016 21:37:38   #
Morgan
 
Hemiman wrote:
You're last sentence,how would you go about doing that?


Like you say make sure the people who do the evaluating, check on the merit and credibility of the people being accused... false accusations should be punishable. Put a real effort into the list.

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Jun 21, 2016 21:48:20   #
Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA
 
Morgan wrote:
It isn't about putting everyone on a watch list, this is about putting suspicious people who are on a watch to wait until they are cleared.
That assumes the Obama administration grows ethics.

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Jun 21, 2016 23:00:39   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
Morgan wrote:
Like you say make sure the people who do the evaluating, check on the merit and credibility of the people being accused... false accusations should be punishable. Put a real effort into the list.


We already have a list like that. It's called convicted felons and domestic abusers. They are prohibited from purchasing firearms. In 2014, more than 76,000, (yes, THOUSAND ) people were flagged for attempting to purchase a firearm. While a lot of these were false flags, a lot were not. The government you trust with these "terror watch lists" prosecuted less than 100 of these cases, and got less than 30 (I think it was 27 ) convictions. Yet you want these morons to crap all over the Second, Fourth, Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments for some kind of "gun control." That's like a cop giving you a ticket because he thinks you're considering running a stop sign. What we need are professional law enforcement, instead of these Goddamn DHS and BATFE fucking cowboys, to enforce the laws we already have.

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Jun 21, 2016 23:16:31   #
Morgan
 
lpnmajor wrote:
The simple answer is; nothing - except Democrats want it. Now, had Obama and/or the Democrats called for open carry Nation wide, the GOP would have come out swinging against it - because they feel they have to.

To be fair, the Democrats act the same stupid way. If a Republican called for clean water, the Democrats would introduce a bill repealing the clean water act.

I swear, every time I see the Congress in action, I have to make sure I haven't gotten onto the kindergarten channel by mistake.
The simple answer is; nothing - except Democrats w... (show quote)




True and I agree, it's like watching a divorce couple go at it, looks like we need mediators. We have to have some flexibility and compromise to get at least somethings done.

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Jun 21, 2016 23:19:53   #
Morgan
 
Super Dave wrote:
That assumes the Obama administration grows ethics.


Them following a procedure with guidelines really has nothing to do with Obama.

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