Obama Must Be Censured For Hiroshima Speech...
May 28, 2016 13:55:36 #
May 28, 2016 13:59:16 #
May 28, 2016 14:10:55 #
May 28, 2016 14:33:06 #
What else would you expect from our Keynon, Muslim POTUS? Iron Mike Ditka was right" Worst dam President we ever had"!!
May 28, 2016 15:00:34 #
mouset783
Loc: Oklahoma
Trooper745 wrote:
Obama is a Turd-in-a-Suit, has always been a Turd-in-a-Suit, and will always be a piece of shit. I expected nothing better from him, and we got the worst from him. He is simply a weenie bitch, and will never change.
Home runMay 28, 2016 15:16:09 #
May 28, 2016 15:23:34 #
mouset783
Loc: Oklahoma
Mike Easterday wrote:
Obama should be charged with treason.
That won't happen with these childish rinos. He wants to add another million to his 72 million travel expense which the rinos love and I bet O stupid's Scotus pick gets confirmed
May 28, 2016 15:24:46 #
Loki wrote:
What did Obama say that deserved censure? He said ... (show quote)
Loki, Loki, Loki! Surely you know that "arose from" refers to the original sin and not the most proximate act. That betrays a prejudiced view, seeking evil where there is only an observation of evil.
I feel so let-down.
May 28, 2016 16:05:01 #
Loki wrote:
How embarrassing that your knowledge of history is so limited, or so biased by your slavish devotion to Obama.
I'm actually not devoted to Obama... It just looks that way compared to fanatics like you.
Loki wrote:
The Philippines were not an independent nation. They were ceded to the US by Spain
The Philippines were not an independent nation. They were ceded to the US by Spain
I never said they were independent - I said they were fighting for independence.
Loki wrote:
, and the US intentions were for a temporary, rather than a permanent occupancy.
, and the US intentions were for a temporary, rather than a permanent occupancy.
Not according to the Philippine Organic Act of 1902. That law made our intentions very clear. The conditions for ending the "temporary" occupancy was that the Filipinos stop fighting for independence and accept the the authority of the U.S. and they had to sustain that submission for 2 years while making land available for American purchase and committing to the disestablishment of the Roman Catholic Church. So, in other words... assimilate them as subordinates. So, like I said... The Filipinos were fighting for independence while Americans were fighting for imperialism.
Loki wrote:
The Philippine Insurrection actually prolonged the US occupation.
The Philippine Insurrection actually prolonged the US occupation.
Yes, they struggled for independence for 13 years.
Loki wrote:
Obama's message ignored the fact that the Japanese attacked us, not the other way around. It ignores the fact that Japanese troops actually landed in Alaska. Neither he nor you made any mention of the fact that the Japanese occupation of the Philippines resulted in between one half million and one million Filipino deaths. The temporary US occupation and the Moro War casualties were around 30,000. While US forces committed atrocities, they were few.
Obama's message ignored the fact that the Japanese attacked us, not the other way around. It ignores the fact that Japanese troops actually landed in Alaska. Neither he nor you made any mention of the fact that the Japanese occupation of the Philippines resulted in between one half million and one million Filipino deaths. The temporary US occupation and the Moro War casualties were around 30,000. While US forces committed atrocities, they were few.
I'm not ignoring the Japanese atrocities and I don't think Obama was either. Here's what Obama actually said... "The world war that reached its brutal end in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was fought among the wealthiest and most powerful of nations." That's not an exclusive reference to the U.S. That's a reference to everyone involved including Japan. He went on to say... "Their civilizations had given the world great cities and magnificent art. Their thinkers had advanced ideas of justice and harmony and truth. And yet the war grew out of the same base instinct for domination or conquest that had caused conflicts among the simplest tribes, an old pattern amplified by new capabilities and without new constraints."
So he's obviously talking about human nature here. His point is that the consequences of this dark side of human nature is amplified by new technologies which makes the need to constrain ourselves that much more important. It figures you would totally miss that because you are obviously still caught up in the war. "Those dang Japanese!" ...get over it.
Loki wrote:
From 1937 to 1945, the Imperial Japanese Army inflicted between 3 million and 10 million civilian casualties. The true figure is probably about halfway between these two, around 6 million. Roughly one third of Japanese prisoners died of mistreatment, malnutrition, and outright murder.
From 1937 to 1945, the Imperial Japanese Army inflicted between 3 million and 10 million civilian casualties. The true figure is probably about halfway between these two, around 6 million. Roughly one third of Japanese prisoners died of mistreatment, malnutrition, and outright murder.
I am quite aware of the Japanese atrocities. I had an uncle that spent most of the war in a Japanese prison camp in Burma. They weren't exactly nice people. I know they committed horrible atrocities on civilian populations too. I'm just not keeping score like you are.
Loki wrote:
Your statement that US General Smith's order to "kill everyone over the age of ten is proof of US imperialism is parochial, poorly considered nonsense. Smith was court martialed over the order and resulting massacres. Smith was not proof of anything except his own instability. The attack on US troops which occasioned his infamous order was caused by his intervention in an affair involving some Catholic priests in violation of the US "hands off" policy in such matters.
Your statement that US General Smith's order to "kill everyone over the age of ten is proof of US imperialism is parochial, poorly considered nonsense. Smith was court martialed over the order and resulting massacres. Smith was not proof of anything except his own instability. The attack on US troops which occasioned his infamous order was caused by his intervention in an affair involving some Catholic priests in violation of the US "hands off" policy in such matters.
But it happened... He gave the order and American troops complied with it, slaughtering thousands of civilians in the process. There's no way people can bring themselves to do such a horrible thing unless they are caught up in the kind of fervor Obama was referring to, hence my point. That Smith was court marshaled, has no effect on this point, never mind the fact that as a result he wasn't even formally punished. He was reprimanded and cleared for early retirement, which would suggest that the court marshal itself was an empty gesture, probably for PR purposes. If this story was about a Japanese General and his Japanese troops my bet is you wouldn't be making any excuses for him.
Loki wrote:
At any rate, the US intervention in the Philippines ended in 1912. Had it not been for the insurrection and the instability it caused, the occupation would have ended sooner.
At any rate, the US intervention in the Philippines ended in 1912. Had it not been for the insurrection and the instability it caused, the occupation would have ended sooner.
The "intervention" ended in 1912 because the process of assimilation was complete and the Philippines had accepted their fate as subordinates to the American Empire. Their dream of independence didn't actually happen until 1946.
Loki wrote:
You are actually drawing a parallel between this and the Japanese conquests of China, Korea, and other Southeast Asian countries with every intention of keeping the citizens of these places in permanent subjugation.
You are actually drawing a parallel between this and the Japanese conquests of China, Korea, and other Southeast Asian countries with every intention of keeping the citizens of these places in permanent subjugation.
Yes, because the American intention WAS to keep the Filipinos in permanent subjugation. The "intervention" was only a process for getting there. The French were also doing the same thing across the South China Sea. So it wasn't just Americans... ALL the great powers were doing it, which again returns us to the point Obama was making.
Loki wrote:
When one's country is attacked and thousands of it's citizens killed, it is not "belligerence" to defend yourself and seek retribution against the aggressor.
When one's country is attacked and thousands of it's citizens killed, it is not "belligerence" to defend yourself and seek retribution against the aggressor.
To defend, no - but to seek retribution, yes it is, especially when such retribution seeks to kill thousands of civilians that were not involved in the original attack in the first place. Not that your example is applicable anyway, the Japanese didn't attack our country or our civilians. They attacked a military base that we established on some islands far from home with the purpose of asserting a military presence as close to Asia as possible.
Loki wrote:
Japanese mistreatment of civilians is well documented. Most of the US caused casualties in the Philippines were armed insurgents. There was a cholera epidemic in the Philippines at the time of the US occupation and many of these deaths have been wrongly assigned to US military actions by some sources.
Japanese mistreatment of civilians is well documented. Most of the US caused casualties in the Philippines were armed insurgents. There was a cholera epidemic in the Philippines at the time of the US occupation and many of these deaths have been wrongly assigned to US military actions by some sources.
As they say, history is written by the victors. That's why Japanese atrocities are well documented and American atrocities are swept under the rug. What we did in the Philippines is not even taught in school. The entire war is intentionally skipped because there's no way you can study it and NOT see it for the imperialist belligerence that it was, so better to pretend it didn't even happen.
Loki wrote:
Had the Japanese not begun a war that caused millions of civilian deaths, tens of thousands of military deaths, incalculable damage and misery to civilians in China and Southeastern Asia, and deliberately tortured and murdered their prisoners, both military and civilian so viciously that a third of them died in captivity, I might have been less offended by Obama's speech.
Had the Japanese not begun a war that caused millions of civilian deaths, tens of thousands of military deaths, incalculable damage and misery to civilians in China and Southeastern Asia, and deliberately tortured and murdered their prisoners, both military and civilian so viciously that a third of them died in captivity, I might have been less offended by Obama's speech.
Well first of all, you didn't understand Obama's speech. It was a huge deal going into this whether or not he would be apologetic and he wasn't. Instead he rose above the petty squabbling about who killed more people or who started the war, or who had the right to kill people and he made a gracious appeal to the people of Japan but in reference to the human race that we take care not to let this happen again. What you are saying here is far more offensive and it perpetuates the hatred. I mean seriously, you're the only one between us and Obama that is actually making excuses for killing people.
Loki wrote:
br To equate this with US actions in the Philippi... (show quote)
ugh - you DO go on don't you...
Yeah, I got it... slaughtering people when they want to be free is okay as long as someone else is doing it on a bigger scale and it's okay to oppress people if they were previously oppressed by someone else. The rules of Loki. What a total douche.
May 28, 2016 16:06:56 #
EL
Loc: Massachusetts
Don G. Dinsdale wrote:
BREAKING NEWS! Congress Must Censure President Oba... (show quote)
Harry Truman always said that what he did was to save American lives. Way too many young men died in that war.
Obama, obviously, would not have worried about the servicemen. He thinks a whole other way....or, does he really think?
Obama won't ever in his lifetime be good enough to lick Harry Truman's boots!!
May 28, 2016 16:14:11 #
Mike Easterday wrote:
Obama should be charged with treason.
Oboma should be targeted for execution !!!!!!!!
May 28, 2016 16:47:43 #
EL wrote:
Harry Truman always said that what he did was to save American lives. Way too many young men died in that war.
Obama, obviously, would not have worried about the servicemen. He thinks a whole other way....or, does he really think?
Obama won't ever in his lifetime be good enough to lick Harry Truman's boots!!
Obama, obviously, would not have worried about the servicemen. He thinks a whole other way....or, does he really think?
Obama won't ever in his lifetime be good enough to lick Harry Truman's boots!!
Truman was a lying sack of shit. Japan was already defeated, they just hadn't surrendered yet. They had no navy left they had no air power left. In fact we were flying dispatches over the main island like it was a shooting gallery at a carnival. Tokyo suffered more death and destruction from our conventional bombs than Nagasaki did from Fat Man. Yes, far too many young men died in that war, on both sides and if our only intention was to stop Japanese aggression we could have stopped right there, we didn't even need to invade them... But we had other intentions, ultimately we were looking for the same thing Japan was, to reign supreme. And so we dropped the bombs just to prove to the world that we're capable. It was an asshole move and the whole world knows it. Obama was the first president with the courage to confront it.
I think Admiral William D. Leahy sums it up pretty well when he said...
"It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were almost defeated and ready to surrender...in being the first to use it, we...adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages."
---Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy,
Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during World War II
May 28, 2016 16:47:55 #
Loki, There is no doubt that the Japanese military and government were murdering monsters during WW11.They did everything you claim and much more, but that doesn't remove the tragedy of the atomic bomb dropping on two Japanese's cities. A lot of innocent people died in those atomic raids. Historians will debate the necessity of that action for years and years, but it doesn't do anything to bring those men, women and children that died in a fraction of a second back or those that suffered for years after. It doesn't hurt to express sympathy for those that died seventy years ago.
Loki wrote:
What did Obama say that deserved censure? He said ... (show quote)
May 28, 2016 17:14:23 #
straightUp wrote:
ugh - you DO go on don't you...
Yeah, I got it... slaughtering people when they want to be free is okay as long as someone else is doing it on a bigger scale and it's okay to oppress people if they were previously oppressed by someone else. The rules of Loki. What a total douche.
Yeah, I got it... slaughtering people when they want to be free is okay as long as someone else is doing it on a bigger scale and it's okay to oppress people if they were previously oppressed by someone else. The rules of Loki. What a total douche.
My, my, MY! Aren't we the precocious, snarky little Liberal twit for brains today. How many frilly hankies did you throw down to the floor and STOMP on to show your snotty, arrogant outrage that someone would dare to disagree with your version of history? The rules of Straight Upchuck; self-righteous Liberal shitstain nonpareil.
You "got it?" You have nothing, least of all an understanding of the realities of geopolitical history.
I have time to address one of your facts according to Straight Up: I believe you said
"To defend, no - but to seek retribution, yes it is, especially when such retribution seeks to kill thousands of civilians that were not involved in the original attack in the first place. Not that your example is applicable anyway, the Japanese didn't attack our country or our civilians. They attacked a military base that we established on some islands far from home with the purpose of asserting a military presence as close to Asia as possible."
In your infinite wisdom and knowledge of things and events historical, dipstick, did you ever, perchance, hear of a little place in Alaska called "Dutch Harbor?" The Japanese sent a Naval force and several thousand troops there. Alaska was US soil. Did you think it belonged to Belgium?
Japan did not attack our country? I suppose the occurances of December 7th 1941 actually occurred in Nepal, rather than Hawaii.
What will you tell us next? That the rape of Nanking was a piñata party?
"With a purpose of asserting a military presence as close to Asia as possible? You dumbass, JAPAN is several thousand miles closer. They were already all over China. How much closer can you get?
May 28, 2016 20:04:30 #
To the subject, I think Obama gave a terrific speech... Just what was needed, no apology for the A bombs, proper comments about the barbaric and horrible war and expressing the need for change in the actions of humanity.. He did not point fingers or accept any blame for the actions of 70 years ago.
Those of you who thing otherwise, is it a wise mind set to keep the emotions and views of 70 years ago in the world we face today? No it is not. Many in the ME seem to insist on that overview and look at the unending horrs that has brought to them..
Streatup expressed this very well.. excellent post..
Damn computer....Sorry for the goofyk words.... will not fix myk typing...
Those of you who thing otherwise, is it a wise mind set to keep the emotions and views of 70 years ago in the world we face today? No it is not. Many in the ME seem to insist on that overview and look at the unending horrs that has brought to them..
Streatup expressed this very well.. excellent post..
Damn computer....Sorry for the goofyk words.... will not fix myk typing...
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