Not-a-RINO Loc: Michigan

Who wrote the actual bill? That would be a bunch of Democrat elected politicians working with lawyers who make the legislation incomprehensible to nearly everyone. As you pointed out, even Nancy Pelosi, one of the chief architects couldn't tell you what was in the bill on national TV. President Reagan knew all too well what happens when too much government gets involved in just about anything. He once said he would have liked to see what the Ten Commandments would look like had God run it through Congress first. You can bet the farm it would not look like anything we recognize today.

My main problems with all of this are two-fold:

1. The Democrats violated the Constitution, their oaths of office and their own established rules to cram this down our throats by deeming it passed in the Senate. I won't go into the voting fraud which gave the DEMs a 60 seat majority here, but just by mentioning it, it adds to the fact it doesn't pass the smell test.

2. As most typical of Washington pols, the legislation empowers government, not the people to make the best decisions for themselves and their families. There was so much that could have been done to reduce the costs and access to affordable health care through established market means, but then again, that would have empowered the individual and not Uncle Sam. The socialists in Congress would not hear of it and the fix was in. Poll after poll shows ObamaCare, in its current form, is as popular as fiberglass underwear with the public and many unions who supported this monstrosity. Unless something is done quickly, America will have to get ready to grab her ankles.

If I complain about something and don't offer some solution, it makes my position basically worthless. Here are some things that could have been done to drop the cost of health care:

1. Open competition across state lines;
2. Advertise procedures and treatments;
3. Allow chambers of commerce to offer group rates to small business;
4. Make premiums tax deductible;
5. Tort reform;
6. Increase access to Health Savings Accounts (HSA);
7. Reduce the required amount of record keeping (about 1/3 the cost of health care);
8. Make health insurance subject to the anti-trust laws (only the NFL and health insurance are exempt!);
9. No free health care for illegals;
10. Create a policy for the working poor based on their income. To be eligible for a subsidized policy, you must be a) American b) Working (no illegals or freeloaders). This would provide private health care, give incentives to work and provides mobility from employer to employer.

These are in no way the only ideas which would drive down costs and improve access, but it would be a good start. I am certain there are many other creative people who could come up with more ideas which would work to keep the government bureaucracy from being the public's primary care physician whose bedside manner would be that of the IRS.

richard39

In order for this healthcare law to continue all of us will be paying more and more each and every year until the country is bankrupt. Just look at Greece, Spain, France, Italy the U.K. and the list goes on. Just remember that when you continue to "Spread the Wealth" you eventually run out of money. Watch full time jobs disappear, companies discontinuing their employee health care policies. U.P.S. is discontinuing spousal insurance, schools are making more teachers part-timers. More jobs going to other countries. The Obama legacy will be the destruction of the greatest country the world has ever known. We have turned this country from a land of opportunity to a land of entitlement. I am sorry I lived long enough to see that.

Not-a-RINO Loc: Michigan

You have to understand the liberal mindset of this regime. Those countries you mentioned failed because Obama and his Marxist horde weren't in charge. Only they, in their infinite wisdom, can take failed policies and make them right for your own good. What makes matters worse is there are those who believe Air Force One is pulled around the world by eight tiny reindeer and would support Satan if he were giving away "free stuff". I hope American doesn't have to hit bottom before people wake up to this regime's destructive Marxist agenda.

andrew998 Loc: NYC

Ok, so you tell us how much it cost or stop this constant whining over everything. You are welcome to offer some alternative to control the cost of health care. Go for it.

richard39

I am not smart enough to develop a health care plan that controls costs, but I do know that the "so called" affordable health care act is increasing exponentially . It is not only the direct costs everyone will see, it is also the increased taxes everybody will be paying. The rationed healthcare is real close to reality. Two or three years ago the U.K. allowed 137,000 people die because of too few doctors and too little money. If you translate that to the U.S. population, we would have allowed about 750,000 people to die. How would you like that if one of them was your loved one?

andrew998 Loc: NYC

Do the rest of us a favor and bring your AK-47 to nearest police station and leave it there.

richard39

I don't own an AK-47, but I do want the right to protect myself. That is G-d given right as well as a constitutional right.

Trooper745 Loc: Carolina

Almost BoJester, but no cigar. As usual, your facts are a little twisted, obviously, to support the liberal talking points.

Back in the early 1990s, Stuart Butler, et al., at the Heritage Foundation, wrote some opinions that there needed to be some requirements that everyone have some protection for catastrophic accident/health care. At that time Stuart and others at the Heritage Foundation did not advocate government mandated purchase of insurance, but instead tax breaks and vouchers to entice individuals to purchase insurance for catastrophic illnesses, so that taxpayers and hospitals did not have to foot the bill for the uninsured people who had major accidents or catastrophic illnesses.

The Heritage Foundation wanted expansion of health insurance to happen because of the carrot of health credit or voucher, not the stick of punishment by the hated IRS. The only thing close to that was the suggestion of the loss of some tax breaks, if catastrophic accident & health insurance wasn't purchased.

Even more important, a few years ago, Stuart and others at the Heritage Foundation, changed their opinions on having any incentives to purchase insurance, because health research and advances in economic analysis had convinced Stuart that an insurance mandate wasn't needed to achieve stable, near-universal coverage. Also, advances in "risk adjustment" tools were improving the stability of voluntary insurance. Heritage-funded research on federal employees' coverage — which has no mandate — caused Stuart to conclude he had made a mistake in the 1990s.

Nothing in the Obamacare package was written by the Heritage Foundation. As you said, lots of people, especially the insurance companies, had a hand in this crappy legislation, but mostly in the quest to get their own money grubbing hands into the pockets of the working taxpayers.

andrew998 Loc: NYC

I did not want you go beserk with it just like your beserky answers to ACA. You already have lots of protection. There's FBI, Police, Army, CIA and others for which you are paying taxes.

Poco624

"You're like an annoying little gnat"? Wow! Seriously, I don't see any OC substance coming from Matnc816. I believe I laid out far more facts than you. One method of payment for Obamacare will be the premiums, this is not free insurance like the ones on the right wants everyone to believe, it is not paid totally by taxpayers hard earned cash.

People will pay premiums based on their income, that is why the IRS is involved. Of course, the "righty whities" want everyone to believe that the IRS will be keeping track of your medical procedures -- that is just not so. The IRS would probably have to double the number of their employees to take on medical insurance. Nope, no evidence here of any serious critical thinking.

Another method of payment will be the taxes from manufactures of certain medical devices, etc. People will pay for insurances they may or may not need like fire insurance, flood insurance and car insurance, but just about everyone will use medical insurance at one time or another. If someone does not have health insurance they will go to the emergency room and we all will have to pay for their care with taxes and higher hospital cost.

Another big problem when people do not have health insurance is developing a contagious disease, if they do not get help we could all be faced with our own "Contagion". There was an outbreak of the norovirus around Christmas time that could have become very serious if it had not been caught in time.

eden

Thank you Bo Jester for reinforcing my post. Regardless of political affiliation
we need to hang the facts in the air and let the chips fall where they may.
If John McCain had won the 08 election and introduced the same Heritage Plan in some form or another with the mandate that came with it, would that be labeled socialized health care?
What nobody seems to understand is that America has always had a de facto universal health care system. It is called the Emergency Room. Indigent people with no insurance head for this every time they have a nosebleed. They get billed for the ER services but if they have no money you can't get blood from a stone so the tax payers of that county or city end up paying the hospital running costs through property taxes etc. Sounds like socialism to me.
(The irony is palpable.) Obamacare is a clumsy attempt to address this mess but I see no better idea from the right at the moment. Greta Van Susteren of Fox News(?) was interviewing one of the baying hounds in the GOP one night
and after patiently listening to his usual anti Obamacare rant for 5 minutes suddenly asked in a rare moment of clarity "and what is the Republican Health Care plan?"...After a stunned silence the ranter quickly changed the subject.
Anybody out there care to enlighten me? WHAT IS THE REPUBLICAN HEALTH CARE PLAN?

andrew998 Loc: NYC

There is another angle to this as well. Those that oppose ACA also want no abortions. Then, can these additional welfare babies they want at least have health insurance, maybe even financial assistance if needed. But then they cry if the welfare rolls increase. Go figure.

andrew998 Loc: NYC

Doctors in this country all have 2 Mercedes in the driveway and a house that looks like a castle. That's because they have a monopoly on providing medical care. There is no free market. So, ACA is the next best thing because the government will decide how much they get for various procedures. One young lady called 4 hospitals to get an estimate for an operation for her mother. The estimates ranged from $25,000 to $125,000. The price is probably determined by how many beds are currently occupied and not anything to do with how long it takes to perform it. Dig? yes or no.

andrew998 Loc: NYC

Good question, I knew there had to be some sane people out there.

BoJester

In a nutshell, the republican plan is the same as it was before the ACA. republicans consider the EMTALA, tha treagan signed in 1986 to be sufficient for people to get treatment. Among the many problems with the republican plan is that there were no provisions made for hospitals/providers to compensated for the services they rendered. Consequently, hospitals ran up millions of dollars of uncollected debt for these services. Then the cost shifting started. Those with insurance found their premiums and co-pays rising, and taxes increasing to keep hospitals solvent. Everyone wants to blame the ACA, but this problem has been going on for decades.
One major contributing factor is that medicine became thought of as a business commodity, from drugs, to equipment managed care plans. Every entity wants to increase profits, regardless of the benefit to the people.
Also, if there is to honest assessment of this debate, one must remember that John McCain had a health plan, in which he would tax employer provided health insurance. That as much as palin and his obsinance led to his defeat.
Most right wingnut posters either lie or deny or are unaware of these facts.
For the doubters, make like Thurber and look it up.