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Evangelicalism Exposed by Southerner
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Apr 23, 2018 08:58:03   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Really? YOU have "not seen President Trump forsake fornication or adultery"?

It is not the role of any Christian to either applaud or condone either fornication or adultery.

But, when exactly, did you see President Trump commit either fornication or adultery?

The Hollywood Access tape is proof of nothing other than the desire to appear properly "manly" to an acquaintance.
Do you understand the concept of "locker room talk" between men?

IOW, the Hollywood Access tape is ego boosting/private public relations promoting BS.

You are speaking of a man who owned the Miss America pageant, a man whose 1st wife, 3rd wife and daughter were all internationally known designer clothes models.

Besides being a billionaire (with a B), he moved in the social circles all wannabee beauty queens, models, and starlets wished to access. I am astounded that ONLY "15 women, a porn star, and a Playboy Bunny" have tried to attract fame, publicity, notoriety and $$$$ monetary funds through claiming to have had intimate encounters with this man.

Anyone can claim anything they wish, against anyone at all, at any time for any unknown motive.

Such claims do not radiate indelible truth on their part, nor will they serve as proof in a court of law.

If he committed a crime or crimes, He is innocent unless and/or until found guilty by a jury of his peers.

How do you, I, or anyone else know what President Trump has confessed to the Lord, his God, for which he has been forgiven?

It is told of Luther that one day being asked which of all the Psalms were the best, he made answer, "Psalmi Paulini," and when his friends pressed to know which these might be, he said, "The 32nd, the 51st, the 130th, and the 143rd.

For they all teach that the forgiveness of our sins comes, without the law and without works, to the man who believes, and therefore I call them Pauline Psalms; and David sings, `But with you there is forgiveness, so that we can, with reverence, serve you,' this is just what Paul says, 'But the Scriptures declare that we are all prisoners of sin, so we receive God's promise of freedom only by believing in Jesus Christ.` Galatians 3:22.

Thus no man may boast of his own righteousness; it is mere forgiveness, not merit at all." Luther's Table Talk.

Are you about casting stones?

Even in the New Testament, those men whom Jesus prevented from doing so, were eye witnesses to the crime!



Bruce Hass wrote:
>>>>>

King James Bible Proverbs 28:13
"He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy."

It's the 'forsaking them' that I don't see. The Hollywood Access tape is followed by more than 15 women, a porn star, and a Playboy Bunny indicating that Trump has followed the comments on the tape rather than forsaking earlier transgressions. If evangelicals "have the mind of Christ", I still see hypocrisy in their telling others how to interpret scripture that is so clear ("murder of infants" ) and defending Trump's fornication and adultery.
>>>>> br br King James Bible Prov... (show quote)

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Apr 23, 2018 11:11:02   #
Harry Wade
 
Some good words were written, I did not vote for Trump but voted against Clinton. Let's just say she is in favor of killing unborn babies which is murder. Enough said.

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Apr 23, 2018 15:09:22   #
Bruce Hass
 
mwdegutis wrote:
Yes you are immediately forgiven and there are consequences. But are you sure that you know what you’re talking about referencing Psalm 16:10? Try it in context...

Psalm 16:7-11 (NASB)
7 I will bless the LORD who has counseled me; Indeed, my mind instructs me in the night.
8 I have set the LORD continually before me; Because He is at my right hand, I will not be shaken.
9 Therefore my heart is glad and my glory rejoices; My flesh also will dwell securely.
10 For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.
11 You will make known to me the path of life; In Your presence is fullness of joy; In Your right hand there are pleasures forever.

David was assured that the Lord would preserve his life in the face of death. He rejoiced because God enabled his body to rest securely even when confronted with death. The reason he could rest is that God would not abandon him to the grave, nor... let His holy one see decay. This verse refers to David, who describes himself as God's "holy one," that is, one of God's saints (cf. v. 3). He took comfort in the fact that God would not, at that time, allow his body to die and decay in the grave. In fact God had caused him to know the path of life so he anticipated experiencing further joy in God's presence (v. 11).

Verses 8-11 were cited by Peter on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:25-28) and Psalm 16:10b was quoted by Paul at Antioch (Acts 13:35-37) in reference to Christ's resurrection. So the words of David are also typological; they transcended his own experience and became historically true in Christ. Preservation from the decaying grave is the idea behind both David's and Jesus' experiences, but with David it came through a deliverance from death, whereas with Jesus it came through a resurrection from death.

Death posed no threat to David because he enjoyed great blessing and fellowship with the Lord. God would not permit death and the grave to interrupt that marvelous fellowship. So in a fuller sense this is true of believers today, who having the full revelation about the doctrine of resurrection, can say that even when they die, God will not let death destroy that full fellowship they enjoy with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:8; Phil. 1:23). This expression of faith is possible because Christ conquered death (Luke 24:6) and rose to become the firstfruits of all who sleep (1 Cor. 15:20).
Yes you are immediately forgiven and there are con... (show quote)

>>>>
Yes.
No question that 16:10 is Messianic and could be interpreted as you suggested. But then you have to explain:
1) What was Christ doing in hell?
2) What is David doing in hell if he was forgiven immediately or even in his lifetime?
3) The question remains: Can one take a life? Quickly "repent"? and then be completely and immediately absolved? If the answer is yes, then that is what other Christians (presumably not evangelicals according to your presumably evangelical interpretation )call the "cheap grace" of doing anything against Deity's commandments and being absolved right away by mere confession. Sort of an inexpensive version of the medieval practice of buying indulgences. Where does the fairness to the murdered person lie? Too bad Uriah, you were just a pawn in the king's adultery? Tough luck, Marine.
4) David admits he is going to hell v10, where he then makes a comparison of his relief from hell through resurrection and the Lord's resurrection.
Can we not take David's words literally? It is a common mistake, even cop out, to interpret some verses literally, and when they don't fit one's interpretative scheme, to ascribe them to metaphor. Real grace is not cheap, because it is based in the Savior's infinite atonement--a price that no human could pay; His atonement is cheapened by your interpretation of David, admittedly favored by the Lord, to be given absolution from payment of such grievous sins as adultery and murder by a quick, "Gee, I'm really sorry, and I promise to not do it again." If this were the rule of heaven, what prevents a life of shame and sin to be forgiven on a deathbed with an, "I'm awfully sorry?" It defies the fairness of a God who loves His children equally, and therefore treats them equally according to their deeds even as He is willing to forgive the sins but does not allow the law to be compromised. Strange belief to find favoritism to be ok in a perfect Parent who loves all His children equally.
5) If your interpretation is valid, then what is the problem with abortion? Why the big deal? In your scheme, it is just another murder that can be
easily forgiven, just like David's.

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Apr 23, 2018 17:03:32   #
mwdegutis Loc: Illinois
 
Bruce Hass wrote:
>>>>
Yes.
No question that 16:10 is Messianic and could be interpreted as you suggested. But then you have to explain:
1) What was Christ doing in hell?
2) What is David doing in hell if he was forgiven immediately or even in his lifetime?
3) The question remains: Can one take a life? Quickly "repent"? and then be completely and immediately absolved? If the answer is yes, then that is what other Christians (presumably not evangelicals according to your presumably evangelical interpretation )call the "cheap grace" of doing anything against Deity's commandments and being absolved right away by mere confession. Sort of an inexpensive version of the medieval practice of buying indulgences. Where does the fairness to the murdered person lie? Too bad Uriah, you were just a pawn in the king's adultery? Tough luck, Marine.
4) David admits he is going to hell v10, where he then makes a comparison of his relief from hell through resurrection and the Lord's resurrection.
Can we not take David's words literally? It is a common mistake, even cop out, to interpret some verses literally, and when they don't fit one's interpretative scheme, to ascribe them to metaphor. Real grace is not cheap, because it is based in the Savior's infinite atonement--a price that no human could pay; His atonement is cheapened by your interpretation of David, admittedly favored by the Lord, to be given absolution from payment of such grievous sins as adultery and murder by a quick, "Gee, I'm really sorry, and I promise to not do it again." If this were the rule of heaven, what prevents a life of shame and sin to be forgiven on a deathbed with an, "I'm awfully sorry?" It defies the fairness of a God who loves His children equally, and therefore treats them equally according to their deeds even as He is willing to forgive the sins but does not allow the law to be compromised. Strange belief to find favoritism to be ok in a perfect Parent who loves all His children equally.
5) If your interpretation is valid, then what is the problem with abortion? Why the big deal? In your scheme, it is just another murder that can be
easily forgiven, just like David's.
>>>> br Yes. br No question that 16:10... (show quote)

You seem to think it's as easy as saying I'm sorry and your absolved. Typical of someone who doesn't understand repentance. Do you know what repentance means?

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Apr 23, 2018 20:50:37   #
Bruce Hass
 
mwdegutis wrote:
You seem to think it's as easy as saying I'm sorry and your absolved. Typical of someone who doesn't understand repentance. Do you know what repentance means?


You got it bassakwards, deGuttie; that is exactly what I was not saying. Try reading it again. See Bonhoffer on cheap grace if you don't know what it is.

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Apr 23, 2018 21:02:07   #
mwdegutis Loc: Illinois
 
Bruce Hass wrote:
You got it bassakwards, deGuttie; that is exactly what I was not saying. Try reading it again. See Bonhoffer on cheap grace if you don't know what it is.

I'll be succinct...God knows what's in your heart and a tree is known by its fruit...and your fruit smells pretty rotten.

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Apr 23, 2018 23:47:48   #
Bruce Hass
 
mwdegutis wrote:
I'll be succinct...God knows what's in your heart and a tree is known by its fruit...and your fruit smells pretty rotten.

>>><<<

To answer your earlier question, Yes, I know very well what repentance and forgiveness are--no one needs them more than I.
Your Evangelicalism cop-out reassures me that I am on the right spiritual track in that my feelings about evangelical hypocrisy are valid.
But as a fellow Christian, I wish you personally nothing but the very best in your quest for truth. Truth will out.

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Apr 24, 2018 06:56:28   #
mwdegutis Loc: Illinois
 
Bruce Hass wrote:
>>><<<

To answer your earlier question, Yes, I know very well what repentance and forgiveness are--no one needs them more than I.
Your Evangelicalism cop-out reassures me that I am on the right spiritual track in that my feelings about evangelical hypocrisy are valid.
But as a fellow Christian, I wish you personally nothing but the very best in your quest for truth. Truth will out.

Your issue is that you deal with your feelings...a sure way to get shipwrecked.

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Apr 24, 2018 06:58:25   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Meekness Is Not Weakness - Christian meekness is often misunderstood, for Christians do not have the Spirit of fear.

God's indwelling Holy Spirit doesn't make us timid.

"Meekness" is God given strength, ... power that is reserved for the Master's use. ... and in our self-control.


11r20 wrote:
It is...They never fight against the lucy Shiite muslim practices. They take our meekness for weakness.
They never have/had the guts to fight CAIR or the old Indicted Radical Holyland Foundation.

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Apr 24, 2018 13:36:27   #
Bruce Hass
 
mwdegutis wrote:
Your issue is that you deal with your feelings...a sure way to get shipwrecked.

>>>>>
If you knew the current status of how human mental machinery makes decisions, you would know that feelings are a prime factor in determining how humans decide. You, not I, ride an incorrect scientific principle into an ocean of absolutism about psychology and religion. No shipwreck here, brother. Thanks for whatever level of concern you have for me, but do not worry, I know what my issues are--I have the chart, I know the waters, and I know that I will reach my destination. Hope to find you there.

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Apr 24, 2018 15:46:39   #
mwdegutis Loc: Illinois
 
Bruce Hass wrote:
>>>>>
If you knew the current status of how human mental machinery makes decisions, you would know that feelings are a prime factor in determining how humans decide. You, not I, ride an incorrect scientific principle into an ocean of absolutism about psychology and religion. No shipwreck here, brother. Thanks for whatever level of concern you have for me, but do not worry, I know what my issues are--I have the chart, I know the waters, and I know that I will reach my destination. Hope to find you there.
>>>>> br If you knew the current st... (show quote)

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matthew 7:13-14

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’" Matthew 7:21-23

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Apr 24, 2018 16:19:46   #
old marine Loc: America home of the brave
 
Semper Fi
God bless America and President Trump

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Apr 24, 2018 21:43:49   #
Bruce Hass
 
mwdegutis wrote:
“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matthew 7:13-14

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’" Matthew 7:21-23
i “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is... (show quote)


>>>
After chiding me for saying that actions are important, it is interesting that you quote Matt 7:21-23, "but he who DOES the will of my Father in heaven." Do you really think Trump's record is supported by evangelicals because he is such a good example of doing the Father's will--which includes obeying the Father's commandments---like no adultery? or as you like to quote," by their fruits ye shall know them." The Lord really disliked hypocrisy as He again and again condemned the Pharisees for theirs. So we are back to the hypocrisy of evangelicals condemning non-evangelicals for their sins but unwilling to condemn Trump for his. As they themselves admit, they would rather have presidential and legal (court) power even if it costs them the price of having to wear the scarlet letter of 'H' for their hypocrisy.
Thanks again for your concern about my soul. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved..." Mark 16:16. I believe and I have been baptized. So according to those criteria, I am saved. No need to worry on my account.

As oldMarine says: God bless the United States. Beauase it has the mission to be Reagan's city on the hill.
As oldMarine says: God bless Donald Trump. Because he leads the US and he certainly needs all the celestial help he can get.
As this Marine says: God bless the Constitution because He gifted it to us.

Semper Fi and Basta!

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Apr 24, 2018 22:07:56   #
mwdegutis Loc: Illinois
 
Bruce Hass wrote:
>>>
After chiding me for saying that actions are important, it is interesting that you quote Matt 7:21-23, "but he who DOES the will of my Father in heaven." Do you really think Trump's record is supported by evangelicals because he is such a good example of doing the Father's will--which includes obeying the Father's commandments---like no adultery? or as you like to quote," by their fruits ye shall know them." The Lord really disliked hypocrisy as He again and again condemned the Pharisees for theirs. So we are back to the hypocrisy of evangelicals condemning non-evangelicals for their sins but unwilling to condemn Trump for his. As they themselves admit, they would rather have presidential and legal (court) power even if it costs them the price of having to wear the scarlet letter of 'H' for their hypocrisy.
Thanks again for your concern about my soul. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved..." Mark 16:16. I believe and I have been baptized. So according to those criteria, I am saved. No need to worry on my account.

As oldMarine says: God bless the United States. Beauase it has the mission to be Reagan's city on the hill.
As oldMarine says: God bless Donald Trump. Because he leads the US and he certainly needs all the celestial help he can get.
As this Marine says: God bless the Constitution because He gifted it to us.

Semper Fi and Basta!
>>> br After chiding me for saying that a... (show quote)

I voted for and support Trump, not the man, but the platform he stands for. He isn't perfect but then NONE of us are (Romans 3:23). He supports America which if it falls, is the last hope before the SHTF. And I know that it doesn't matter because God's plan WILL come to fruition. I believe that the only reason Trump won was to delay the inevitable a little longer to save as many souls as possible before said SHTF.

As for being saved, I'm glad that you are but I have a much better verse...Romans 10:9-13: If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by openly declaring your faith that you are saved. As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.” Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

And I don't condemn non-Christians for their sins...I only want them to repent because without that and Jesus' saving grace, they're "dead men walking.".

Yours in Christ.

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Apr 25, 2018 14:05:36   #
Marsinah
 
Bruce Hass wrote:
Hollis Phelps', Professor of Interdisciplinary studies at Mercer University in Macon, GA wrote an article titled "Maybe It's Time to Admit that the 'Grotesque Caricature' of White Evangelicals is the Reality" where he examines the pathology. He writes the following:

"There’s no doubt that evangelicalism seems to have an image problem, especially since its overwhelming alliance with Trump. In the minds of many outside the fold, evangelicalism no longer represents a specific religious position centered on sin and the need for individual salvation but rather a self-serving, power-hungry political movement that will side with the devil himself for the sake of political pragmatism.
“When people say what does it mean to be an evangelical, people don’t say evangelism or the gospel,” Birdsall told the Washington Post. But this image problem isn’t new. Although polling shows that overall feelings toward evangelicals as a religious group have remained relatively stable since 2014, the perception of evangelicals as “agents of intolerance,” to quote John McCain back in 2008, well predates the Trump era. And besides, we shouldn’t chalk it all up to image. The fact remains that over 80% of self-identified white evangelical voters cast their lot with Trump. Moreover, despite a host of missteps and scandals, overall evangelical support for Trump as president hasn’t declined but grown.
Phelps posits the pretext that the White Evangelical uses to support Donald Trump and turns it on its head.
Given the consistency with which white evangelicals as a whole have lent their support to Trump—and right-wing candidates and policies more generally—it’s far past time to own up to the fact that the image is, in many respects, the reality."

"Well-intentioned evangelical leaders may not like to hear that, but it remains the case that an overwhelming majority of evangelicals continue to support Trump and his policies. Sure, they may have issues with his moral center, or lack thereof, but they’re willing to overlook all this for the sake of political expediency, for promises of “religious freedom,” and the hope of a judiciary stacked with conservative judges. This is because, at the end of the day, evangelicalism isn’t really about personal values but, rather, social and political conversion and control."
Hollis Phelps', Professor of Interdisciplinary stu... (show quote)


I've heard it is the "non-judgmental" aspect of evangelicals that is the main problem. It is with Me, anyway. It seems that the only thing evangelicals, or maybe the correct term is "born-agains", tolerate, is sin, however they want to define it.

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