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Mar 20, 2018 10:36:11   #
debeda
 
archie bunker wrote:
You aren't objective at all. Are you a woman, man, or not sure?


LOL good morning Archie

Reply
Mar 20, 2018 11:31:47   #
whitnebrat Loc: In the wilds of Oregon
 
archie bunker wrote:
You aren't objective at all. Are you a woman, man, or not sure?

On this site, one can never be sure. As for you?

Reply
Mar 20, 2018 11:41:48   #
archie bunker Loc: Texas
 
whitnebrat wrote:
On this site, one can never be sure. As for you?


Oh, I'm male all the way! My birth certificate even says so.
Now, how bout you hop up, fetch me a beer, and make me a sandwich?

Reply
 
 
Mar 20, 2018 12:53:29   #
whitnebrat Loc: In the wilds of Oregon
 
archie bunker wrote:
Oh, I'm male all the way! My birth certificate even says so.
Now, how bout you hop up, fetch me a beer, and make me a sandwich?


I'd respond at length, but I don't want to get thrown off the site. Your misogynist statement speaks for itself.

Reply
Mar 20, 2018 13:06:52   #
Manning345 Loc: Richmond, Virginia
 
whitnebrat wrote:
I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of our current president. I wasn't particularly enthused by the loser in the last election, either.
I've tried to wrap my head around what either party wants to do in terms of the direction that we're headed. I don't have a clue about actual programs, but I do have a theory about where the Conservatives want to take the country.
If you strip away all the rhetoric and theatrics, and nail them down to absolute basics, here is what I think you find.
They want to make the country into a mono-racial, mono-cultural, mono-theistic, male-dominated nation. Mono-racial means whites only. Mono-cultural means European-descended social norms. Mono-theistic means protestant Christian majority and theology, with these values descending into the law of the land. Male-dominated reverts back to the old days of a paternalistic government, based on the male of the household being the ruler of the roost and sole breadwinner.
Lots of these values are based on Biblical standards.
In this utopia, they would oust all minorities including Jews, Muslims, Asians and blacks. Gays and lesbians would be forced back into the closet behind last year's shoe styles. Women's rights would be curtailed.
I may be wrong, but it sure looks like this from an objective viewpoint.

If you're conservative and if you strip away all the overlay, is this what you truly believe?
I'm sure that many of you will try to argue the cosmetics of this ideology, but can you really and truly argue that these basics aren't what you would feel most comfortable with?

On the other hand, the true liberals would give away the store and their policies would ultimately lead to socialism and all the attendant ills that accompany that thinking. Things like a guaranteed minimum income for everyone, a liberal immigration policy, a politically correct culture for all, and a few other items that I wouldn't agree with. In its own way it's just as offensive as the conservative construct.

There has to be a common ground that we all can agree on, but unless we can start to agree on something and put aside the sniping and name-calling and talk about issues instead of stereotypes, we'll continue to be a divided country that will eventually fracture.
I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of our current presi... (show quote)



This comparison was posted earlier as my view of the difference between Conservatism and the Left, but with a few additions. Not in any specific order:



Conservative.............................................The Left Today

Constructive..................................Destructive of the Current State
Truth Telling..................................Evasions and Lies
For Proper Discrimination................For Indiscrimination
For the People...............................For the State, Military, and Vassals
For US Sovereignty........................For Global Governance
Judicial Fidelity..............................Judicial Activism
For Jobs.......................................For Handouts, Dependency
For Smaller Government................For Large Government
For Right to Life............................For Abortion
For Affordable Healthcare...............For Obamacare
For Positive Action.........................For Talk-Talk
For Charity...................................For Welfare, Dependency on the State
Belief in God.................................Belief in State and Man
Freedom of Religion.......................The Same
For the Citizens.............................For So-Called Elites First and Foremost
Thinks of Past, Present and Future...Thinks of Today and Tomorrow
For the Constitution.......................For Elite Rule & "Living Constitution"
For Equal Opportunity....................For Equal Outcomes
For Well-Rounded Education............For Constrained Ideological Education
For Military Strength......................For Military Reductions
For Democracy and the Republic......For Collectivism=>Socialism=>Communi.
For Heeding Lessons of the Past.......For Utopian Ideals That Do Not Work
For Free Flow of Legislation.............For Obstruction of Legislation
For Fiscal Prudence........................Spendthrift, Reallocation of Funds
For Debt Reduction.........................For Deficit Spending
For Social Harmony........................For "Social Justice"
For Comity and Congeniality............For Ad Hominem Attacks
For Legal Immigration....................For Illegal Immigration and Amnesty
For Christian Marriage....................For Same Sex Marriage
For States Rights...........................For Powerful Central Government
For Order and Discipline.................For Chaos and Revolution Now
For Verbal Clarity..........................For Verbal Verbosity
For Immigration Control.................For Open Borders
For Long-Term Stability..................For Unwelcome Changes Now
For Rational Compromise................For Compromise Their Way Only
Natural Demeanor.........................Totally Smug and Nasty Grin
Reserved and Polite.......................Angry and Jarring


Thus:
For Sane and Balanced...................For Unbalanced

So how does one reconcile the two postures? It is not clear to me. I see no reason whatsoever to change the conservative stance.

Reply
Mar 20, 2018 14:27:48   #
moldyoldy
 
Manning345 wrote:
This comparison was posted earlier as my view of the difference between Conservatism and the Left, but with a few additions. Not in any specific order:



Conservative.............................................The Left Today

Constructive..................................Destructive of the Current State
Truth Telling..................................Evasions and Lies
For Proper Discrimination................For Indiscrimination
For the People...............................For the State, Military, and Vassals
For US Sovereignty........................For Global Governance
Judicial Fidelity..............................Judicial Activism
For Jobs.......................................For Handouts, Dependency
For Smaller Government................For Large Government
For Right to Life............................For Abortion
For Affordable Healthcare...............For Obamacare
For Positive Action.........................For Talk-Talk
For Charity...................................For Welfare, Dependency on the State
Belief in God.................................Belief in State and Man
Freedom of Religion.......................The Same
For the Citizens.............................For So-Called Elites First and Foremost
Thinks of Past, Present and Future...Thinks of Today and Tomorrow
For the Constitution.......................For Elite Rule & "Living Constitution"
For Equal Opportunity....................For Equal Outcomes
For Well-Rounded Education............For Constrained Ideological Education
For Military Strength......................For Military Reductions
For Democracy and the Republic......For Collectivism=>Socialism=>Communi.
For Heeding Lessons of the Past.......For Utopian Ideals That Do Not Work
For Free Flow of Legislation.............For Obstruction of Legislation
For Fiscal Prudence........................Spendthrift, Reallocation of Funds
For Debt Reduction.........................For Deficit Spending
For Social Harmony........................For "Social Justice"
For Comity and Congeniality............For Ad Hominem Attacks
For Legal Immigration....................For Illegal Immigration and Amnesty
For Christian Marriage....................For Same Sex Marriage
For States Rights...........................For Powerful Central Government
For Order and Discipline.................For Chaos and Revolution Now
For Verbal Clarity..........................For Verbal Verbosity
For Immigration Control.................For Open Borders
For Long-Term Stability..................For Unwelcome Changes Now
For Rational Compromise................For Compromise Their Way Only
Natural Demeanor.........................Totally Smug and Nasty Grin
Reserved and Polite.......................Angry and Jarring


Thus:
For Sane and Balanced...................For Unbalanced

So how does one reconcile the two postures? It is not clear to me. I see no reason whatsoever to change the conservative stance.
This comparison was posted earlier as my view of t... (show quote)


Most of that is exactly backwards.

Reply
Mar 20, 2018 14:35:40   #
Radiance3
 
moldyoldy wrote:
People see themselves in the best light, so, is it possible to actually look beyond our rose colored glasses and see the warts. There are problems with right and left ideology, that is why we need compromise. Negotiation between both sides gets the best outcome usually.


================
Attempts on negotiations have been made a number of times. Democrats don't want negotiations. They want their own ways. E.g. While solving illegal alien problems, president Trump presented to the democrats solutions for DACA to stay and work for citizenship, with end to illegal migration. Border wall needs to be sealed, and end to multi-family petitions except husband or wives and children. This proposal was fair and balanced. But the democrats want it all for themselves, so that democrats in Congress did not approve it.

A win-win solution is something that both parties benefit, while rooting out the negatives. This did not happen with negotiations.

During the democrat administration, they run marathon of destruction to our country, tens of millions of illegals allowed to enlarge democrat supporters. It cost us $116 billion annually plus a $4.6 billion fraud they illegals make annually against the IRS. If we could minimize these costs, then we could fund building the walls. With walls, no drug dealers are able to come, could save millions of our kids and adults lives, and bankruptcies of their parents with addicted children.

Democrats are focused on taking all for their own, via the Deep State Marxism by Mr. Obama. Overall goal is to have a NWO facilitated by UN, to be led by Obama and Lucifer as their god. These is their vision for world peace, they want to happen. Those who don't follow will be eliminated.

Since the 8-years of Obama until now, so many deceptive events leading to Marxism has been going on in our country. President Trump as a result has the most difficult tasks on front of him, with underground resistance pulling him down.

All plots of removing the president have been applied. Currently, the Deep State is very active and powerful.

Reply
 
 
Mar 20, 2018 14:48:52   #
Radiance3
 
Manning345 wrote:
This comparison was posted earlier as my view of the difference between Conservatism and the Left, but with a few additions. Not in any specific order:



Conservative.............................................The Left Today

Constructive..................................Destructive of the Current State
Truth Telling..................................Evasions and Lies
For Proper Discrimination................For Indiscrimination
For the People...............................For the State, Military, and Vassals
For US Sovereignty........................For Global Governance
Judicial Fidelity..............................Judicial Activism
For Jobs.......................................For Handouts, Dependency
For Smaller Government................For Large Government
For Right to Life............................For Abortion
For Affordable Healthcare...............For Obamacare
For Positive Action.........................For Talk-Talk
For Charity...................................For Welfare, Dependency on the State
Belief in God.................................Belief in State and Man
Freedom of Religion.......................The Same
For the Citizens.............................For So-Called Elites First and Foremost
Thinks of Past, Present and Future...Thinks of Today and Tomorrow
For the Constitution.......................For Elite Rule & "Living Constitution"
For Equal Opportunity....................For Equal Outcomes
For Well-Rounded Education............For Constrained Ideological Education
For Military Strength......................For Military Reductions
For Democracy and the Republic......For Collectivism=>Socialism=>Communi.
For Heeding Lessons of the Past.......For Utopian Ideals That Do Not Work
For Free Flow of Legislation.............For Obstruction of Legislation
For Fiscal Prudence........................Spendthrift, Reallocation of Funds
For Debt Reduction.........................For Deficit Spending
For Social Harmony........................For "Social Justice"
For Comity and Congeniality............For Ad Hominem Attacks
For Legal Immigration....................For Illegal Immigration and Amnesty
For Christian Marriage....................For Same Sex Marriage
For States Rights...........................For Powerful Central Government
For Order and Discipline.................For Chaos and Revolution Now
For Verbal Clarity..........................For Verbal Verbosity
For Immigration Control.................For Open Borders
For Long-Term Stability..................For Unwelcome Changes Now
For Rational Compromise................For Compromise Their Way Only
Natural Demeanor.........................Totally Smug and Nasty Grin
Reserved and Polite.......................Angry and Jarring


Thus:
For Sane and Balanced...................For Unbalanced

So how does one reconcile the two postures? It is not clear to me. I see no reason whatsoever to change the conservative stance.
This comparison was posted earlier as my view of t... (show quote)

=================
Those are excellent and portray the accurate pictures of where we are at now.
The Conservatives stand on the righteous ground. Democrats stand on destructive grounds. How do we reconcile them? Obama has his own way via Marxism, underway now via the Deep State.

Reply
Mar 20, 2018 14:57:16   #
moldyoldy
 
Radiance3 wrote:
================
Attempts on negotiations have been made a number of times. Democrats don't want negotiations. They want their own ways. E.g. While solving illegal alien problems, president Trump presented to the democrats solutions for DACA to stay and work for citizenship, with end to illegal migration. Border wall needs to be sealed, and end to multi-family petitions except husband or wives and children. This proposal was fair and balanced. But the democrats want it all for themselves, so that democrats in Congress did not approve it.

A win-win solution is something that both parties benefit, while rooting out the negatives. This did not happen with negotiations.

During the democrat administration, they run marathon of destruction to our country, tens of millions of illegals allowed to enlarge democrat supporters. It cost us $116 billion annually plus a $4.6 billion fraud they illegals make annually against the IRS. If we could minimize these costs, then we could fund building the walls. With walls, no drug dealers are able to come, could save millions of our kids and adults lives, and bankruptcies of their parents with addicted children.

Democrats are focused on taking all for their own, via the Deep State Marxism by Mr. Obama. Overall goal is to have a NWO facilitated by UN, to be led by Obama and Lucifer as their god. These is their vision for world peace, they want to happen. Those who don't follow will be eliminated.

Since the 8-years of Obama until now, so many deceptive events leading to Marxism has been going on in our country. President Trump as a result has the most difficult tasks on front of him, with underground resistance pulling him down.

All plots of removing the president have been applied. Currently, the Deep State is very active and powerful.
================ br Attempts on negotiations have ... (show quote)


Trump agrees to one thing then talks to his handlers and backs out of what he said, and you blame democrats.

Reply
Mar 20, 2018 15:10:58   #
lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas
 
Radiance3 wrote:
================
Attempts on negotiations have been made a number of times. Democrats don't want negotiations. They want their own ways. E.g. While solving illegal alien problems, president Trump presented to the democrats solutions for DACA to stay and work for citizenship, with end to illegal migration. Border wall needs to be sealed, and end to multi-family petitions except husband or wives and children. This proposal was fair and balanced. But the democrats want it all for themselves, so that democrats in Congress did not approve it.

A win-win solution is something that both parties benefit, while rooting out the negatives. This did not happen with negotiations.

During the democrat administration, they run marathon of destruction to our country, tens of millions of illegals allowed to enlarge democrat supporters. It cost us $116 billion annually plus a $4.6 billion fraud they illegals make annually against the IRS. If we could minimize these costs, then we could fund building the walls. With walls, no drug dealers are able to come, could save millions of our kids and adults lives, and bankruptcies of their parents with addicted children.

Democrats are focused on taking all for their own, via the Deep State Marxism by Mr. Obama. Overall goal is to have a NWO facilitated by UN, to be led by Obama and Lucifer as their god. These is their vision for world peace, they want to happen. Those who don't follow will be eliminated.

Since the 8-years of Obama until now, so many deceptive events leading to Marxism has been going on in our country. President Trump as a result has the most difficult tasks on front of him, with underground resistance pulling him down.

All plots of removing the president have been applied. Currently, the Deep State is very active and powerful.
================ br Attempts on negotiations have ... (show quote)


Negotiation implies that those negotiating are willing to reach a compromise, what we see now is "you give me what I want and I'll let you agree with it". The "art of the deal" is apparently "you give me what I ask for.............then I'll ask for more".

It's like watching toddlers fight over toys.

Reply
Mar 20, 2018 15:13:10   #
Manning345 Loc: Richmond, Virginia
 
moldyoldy wrote:
Most of that is exactly backwards.


LOL! You have to be kidding, or woefully ignorant!

Besides, those are my perceptions of Conservative tenets, not necessarily the same as Trump's or anyone else's. I follow Russell Kirk, et al.

Reply
 
 
Mar 20, 2018 22:41:40   #
debeda
 
Manning345 wrote:
This comparison was posted earlier as my view of the difference between Conservatism and the Left, but with a few additions. Not in any specific order:



Conservative.............................................The Left Today

Constructive..................................Destructive of the Current State
Truth Telling..................................Evasions and Lies
For Proper Discrimination................For Indiscrimination
For the People...............................For the State, Military, and Vassals
For US Sovereignty........................For Global Governance
Judicial Fidelity..............................Judicial Activism
For Jobs.......................................For Handouts, Dependency
For Smaller Government................For Large Government
For Right to Life............................For Abortion
For Affordable Healthcare...............For Obamacare
For Positive Action.........................For Talk-Talk
For Charity...................................For Welfare, Dependency on the State
Belief in God.................................Belief in State and Man
Freedom of Religion.......................The Same
For the Citizens.............................For So-Called Elites First and Foremost
Thinks of Past, Present and Future...Thinks of Today and Tomorrow
For the Constitution.......................For Elite Rule & "Living Constitution"
For Equal Opportunity....................For Equal Outcomes
For Well-Rounded Education............For Constrained Ideological Education
For Military Strength......................For Military Reductions
For Democracy and the Republic......For Collectivism=>Socialism=>Communi.
For Heeding Lessons of the Past.......For Utopian Ideals That Do Not Work
For Free Flow of Legislation.............For Obstruction of Legislation
For Fiscal Prudence........................Spendthrift, Reallocation of Funds
For Debt Reduction.........................For Deficit Spending
For Social Harmony........................For "Social Justice"
For Comity and Congeniality............For Ad Hominem Attacks
For Legal Immigration....................For Illegal Immigration and Amnesty
For Christian Marriage....................For Same Sex Marriage
For States Rights...........................For Powerful Central Government
For Order and Discipline.................For Chaos and Revolution Now
For Verbal Clarity..........................For Verbal Verbosity
For Immigration Control.................For Open Borders
For Long-Term Stability..................For Unwelcome Changes Now
For Rational Compromise................For Compromise Their Way Only
Natural Demeanor.........................Totally Smug and Nasty Grin
Reserved and Polite.......................Angry and Jarring


Thus:
For Sane and Balanced...................For Unbalanced

So how does one reconcile the two postures? It is not clear to me. I see no reason whatsoever to change the conservative stance.
This comparison was posted earlier as my view of t... (show quote)


Perfect point counterpoint!!!

Reply
Mar 20, 2018 22:43:07   #
debeda
 
Radiance3 wrote:
================
Attempts on negotiations have been made a number of times. Democrats don't want negotiations. They want their own ways. E.g. While solving illegal alien problems, president Trump presented to the democrats solutions for DACA to stay and work for citizenship, with end to illegal migration. Border wall needs to be sealed, and end to multi-family petitions except husband or wives and children. This proposal was fair and balanced. But the democrats want it all for themselves, so that democrats in Congress did not approve it.

A win-win solution is something that both parties benefit, while rooting out the negatives. This did not happen with negotiations.

During the democrat administration, they run marathon of destruction to our country, tens of millions of illegals allowed to enlarge democrat supporters. It cost us $116 billion annually plus a $4.6 billion fraud they illegals make annually against the IRS. If we could minimize these costs, then we could fund building the walls. With walls, no drug dealers are able to come, could save millions of our kids and adults lives, and bankruptcies of their parents with addicted children.

Democrats are focused on taking all for their own, via the Deep State Marxism by Mr. Obama. Overall goal is to have a NWO facilitated by UN, to be led by Obama and Lucifer as their god. These is their vision for world peace, they want to happen. Those who don't follow will be eliminated.

Since the 8-years of Obama until now, so many deceptive events leading to Marxism has been going on in our country. President Trump as a result has the most difficult tasks on front of him, with underground resistance pulling him down.

All plots of removing the president have been applied. Currently, the Deep State is very active and powerful.
================ br Attempts on negotiations have ... (show quote)


Excellent post. Thank you!!

Reply
Mar 21, 2018 00:47:12   #
JW
 
Radiance3 wrote:

...
A win-win solution is something that both parties benefit, while rooting out the negatives. This did not happen with negotiations.
...


That is not the result of negotiation. It is the result of compromise. Only through negotiation can both sides get at least the minimum they will accept.

Win/win = negotiation
Lose/lose = compromise
Win/ lose = tyranny

Reply
Mar 21, 2018 04:12:33   #
whitnebrat Loc: In the wilds of Oregon
 
So far, all I'm seeing is sheep manure flying back and forth. Since you all advised me to talk to some conservatives, that's what I'm trying to do. Tell me what you all really believe as the bedrock values of conservatism. Tell me what you want the government to do for you, and what you want the government to keep its nose out of. What kind of America would you like to see? I'm listening ...

Reply
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