Loki wrote:
"First of all, there is zero evidence that anyone was destroying his car or threatening him... The videos only started up when he actually started running people over... I assume because that's when people with camcorders noticed anything happening. Maybe AFTER he started running people over they started banging on his car... wouldn't you?"
Oh, there is evidence.
such as?
Loki wrote:
I notice you are always very careful to ignore any violent acts committed by "non-whites," I believe is your current sobriquet of choice for our darker complected brethren and sistren,
Well, it's faster than typing out all the colors... black, brown, yellow, red... so yeah.. "non-whites". And, I tell ya what... Show me one example of a violent crime committed by non-whites that are state-sponsored or legally excused and ask me what I think.
If you just think I'm being one-sided, have another look at this...
So... about this Antifa group...I started this topic specifically to denounce the violent actions of Antifa. Here's an excerpt from my post...
In contrast, Antifa is totally counterproductive. I *do* understand the frustration young Americans are feeling toward Trump and the white nationalists and the attraction of confronting them. I understand the feeling that you just want to beat the living shit out them. But this is the sentiment we hear being expressed by right-wing extremists about liberals, Jews, blacks and... well anyone who isn't a white nationalist. Do we really want to stoop to the same level? ...it's not a winning strategy.Loki wrote:
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"OK, well banning Muslims and building border walls both involve state-sponsorship and can generally be considered attacks on non-whites. Did you not know anything about these things?"
If Muslims were banned, perchance you can inform all of us benighted trailer trash why the majority of the world's Muslims are remarkably unaffected by your so-called "Muslim ban." Trump wished to ban ALL people from certain countries temporarily. These countries are majority, not totally Muslim.
br **** br i "OK, well banning Muslims and ... (
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First of all, I said "banning Muslims"... I did NOT say "banning ALL Muslims". Secondly, it doesn't matter to filth like Trump if some other non-Muslims get caught in the ban because they happen to come from the same country. Have you never heard of collateral damage? The point (and I've said this before) is symbolic. There is no functional advantage to this travel ban, the advantage is symbolic. It's a move designed to win the black hearts of his putrid base and I'm going to say it worked.
Loki wrote:
"But you don't really know that. You're just speculating just like with your feeble attempt to make a right-wing terrorist a victim."
What?
I said... "But you don't really know that. You're just speculating just like with your feeble attempt to make a right-wing terrorist a victim." Is that any clearer?
Loki wrote:
******
"LOL... says the guy who ends a sentence in a preposition."
I believe we have established which of us is burdened with a grammatical deficiency. (Hint: It isn't Loki.)
Ugh... Just because you make a huge deal over every typo I make, doesn't mean I do the same to you. I pretty much ignore 90% of your grammatical errors. Look, YOU were the one who started this grammar Nazi thing. I was just responding to you attacking my grammar with a grammatically incorrect sentence. I mean seriously, how could I ignore that set up? And just for the record, I don't think you're grammatically challenged. I can tell the difference between rushed grammar, which should be expected to some degree on a site like this and a near-complete lack of grammatical capacity, like some others here.
Loki wrote:
******
"And I know the difference, slick. I remember explaining the difference between pre-1965 and post-1965 immigration laws on this site a few months back. I've touched on the legal aspects of immigration a LOT. Do you not remember the analogy I made to the Nazi laws that prohibited any aid to Jews? Remember me telling you that as an American I feel a duty to challenge the laws that I feel are unjust? Do you not understand that our Constitution gives me and any other citizen the right to challenge these laws through free speech and democratic process? Or are you so set in right-wing conservatism that you feel obliged to accept any and all laws as being final and non-negotiable, like a good little sheep?"
You explained your ignorance of immigration law.
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I schooled you. I remember being surprised that you knew as much as you did but you fell short on the argument because I knew more.
Loki wrote:
As for the Nazis, there is a huge difference between denying aid to citizens of your country based on religious bigotry, and denying aid to foreigners who have flaunted your country's laws to even be here breathing it's air.
Not when it comes to life and death. You make this much more complicated than it really is. I know you do this to obscure your own bigotry but when people are facing horrific conditions, you either help them or you don't. It's that simple. Fuck your idiot nationalism bullshit.
Loki wrote:
I have challenged more laws than you
How do you know?
You don't.
So, why even say stupid things like that?
Loki wrote:
and done so with legal opinions, rather than half-assed personal opinion.
What's that even mean? Are you going to tell me your a judge now, delivering legal opinions? Or are you just saying that your personal opinion is based on legal opinions, just like everyone else?
Loki wrote:
Are you so set in left-wing situational ethics that you cannot accept that laws can be challenged, but until they are challenged successfully they are still laws, whether you like it or not?
Is that a run-on sentence? I'm only saying because it's hard to know what you're actually saying or asking here. Maybe I can break it down...
Am I so set in left-wing situational ethics that I cannot accept that laws can be challenged? No. Did you not understand where I said "as an American I feel a duty to challenge the laws that I feel are unjust?" Was that just too hard for you to comprehend?
You also said (in the same sentence) But until they are challenged successfully, they are still the laws. Well, no fucking shit Mr. Genius. I said
challenge the law, not
break the law.
So, let me ask you something... are you practicing the art of intentional misunderstanding? I can't actually tell if you're being divisive or if you really do have a reading comprehension problem, but I know it's either one or the other.
Loki wrote:
'm not the sheep here.
LOL... you TOTALLY are... It's not just you... Being submissive is a huge part of conservative culture. Next to the North Koreans, I would say American Conservatives are the most submissive sheep in the world and it's funny as hell because it's the last thing they want to hear.
Loki wrote:
You have bought into the bullshit of the left far more than I have bought into the crap of the far right.
I don't think so.
Loki wrote:
********
"Show me where he actually said it's "illegal". If you can count the times he said it, you should be able to find at least example, right?
It seems a lot of people on the right simply don't have the mental capacity to understand half of what Obama was saying. He did actually try to explain to people that he was signing an executive order, which technically is not a law. Federal laws can only be legislated by Congress. So from a legal stand point, DACA is not a law of the land, but that doesn't make it illegal. Of course Trump is touting his orders as if they ARE laws so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. But what really stumps me though is how easily you buy this crap. Did you not stop to consider how ridiculous it would be for a president to say he's going to do something illegal?"
*******
Obama in 2011...
"With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that’s just not the case, because there are laws on the books that Congress has passed…. Congress passes the law. The executive branch’s job is to enforce and implement those laws. And then the judiciary has to interpret the laws. There are enough laws on the books by Congress that are very clear in terms of how we have to enforce our immigration system that for me to simply through executive order ignore those congressional mandates would not conform with my appropriate role as president."
Now he didn't use the word illegal but there is not much doubt about the meaning.
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Yeah, see? He didn't actually say it was illegal.
Here's what you said... "OBAMA said his amnesty was illegal, more than 20 times in public. Right up until the time he declared it." And now you're saying that he didn't actually say it was illegal but there isn't much doubt that's what he meant. Uh-huh. Well, actually it's pretty clear what he is saying... the same thing I already told you, that Obama was trying to explain that
laws come from Congress, not executive orders. He was also explaining that he can't use executive orders to override the law. That's basically all he said within the confines of passage you decided to quote. He was explaining the rules, he didn't say anything about his policy on amnesty. As it turns out, the way DACA was written, it is NOT in violation of ANY laws passed by Congress.
If you were to send a link to your source so I could read your cherry-picked passage in it's original context, I bet I would see a situation where Obama was answering a challenge from an antagonist suggesting that he thinks he can just make up the rules (that was a constant challenge from the right throughout Obama's presidency) It would make sense then for Obama to explain that he actually can't do that, even if he wanted to.
Loki wrote:
"Don't forget, we're talking about Trump here, so we need to understand the difference between functional politics and symbolic politics. Symbolic politics, which is frequently associated with fascism, is where decisions are made not so much for their functionality but as symbolic gestures to encourage popular support for a political faction. The difference is that decisions made for the purpose of symbolic gesture don't actually have to work. All they need to do is score a point with the people.
So, yes... Banning all the people from certain countries is not technically limited to banning just Muslims. But being a symbolic gesture means you have to consider the sentiment of the people being wooed. Lots of ignorant assholes supporting Trump hate Muslims enough to where they don't care if the ban is limited to just Muslims. All they know is that the countries on the list are considered to be mostly Muslim and that's good enough for the mob. I don't know if you noticed this but the ban was only for 90 days... 120 days later, he was still fighting for that ban. So what was the 90 days for? They say it was to hold off immigration while they sort things out. Well, if they were still fighting for the bad 120 days later, what did they do with the 90 days they said they needed? From a functional perspective that ban made no sense whatsoever, but from a symbolic perspective it succeeded in cementing support from his base."
"So that's a whole lot of thinking you obviously didn't do"
I would like to forget that I am debating you, but I cannot. You apparently have trouble distinguishing between symbolism and function yourself.
Symbolic politics, which is frequently associated with Liberalism and Fascism is where decisions are made on emotional appeal rather than pragmatism or practicality.
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That's pretty much what I just explained to you, but using Trump's travel ban as an example.
Loki wrote:
Regarding your ridiculous "90 day" statement, it should be obvious even to you that in order to fix a leaky faucet you must first turn off the water.
*********
LOL... If every problem is a leaky faucet, hockey teams would have to stop game play before they can fix defensive problems. Obviously, some things CAN be fixed on the fly. I load hotfixes at work all the time, which means we fix things without taking systems down. Also, a leaky faucet is a physical matter, immigration is a matter of policy, which is logical not physical.
So... give me an example of an immigration problem that can't be resolved without shutting off the visitors from these specific countries for 90 days. Please explain why the same problem couldn't have been solved in the 90 days following the court decision.
Loki wrote:
"Well, that's what he said. But winning the hearts of his base actually makes more logical sense."
Stop talking about logic. It seems downright obscene coming from you.
That's you're response? LOL According to my logic, Trump succeeded; according to yours, he failed. The only reason why you don't like my logic is because it shows us how absurd your political positions are.
Loki wrote:
******
"The difference you point out is superficial. The people protected under DACA are STILL immigrants and their right to be here was never settled and is still under dispute. The decision to protect them from deportation is still as much part of this dispute as any other decision on immigration policy."
The people protected under DACA are still ILLEGAL immigrants and subject to deportation if they commit crimes.
Their "right to be here" is a matter of settled law. If you are not a citizen, you have no "right" to be here. It is a privilege extended by the host country.
******
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You're an idiot. How old were you when you realized Santa Clause isn't real? 23?
LOL
So, SHOW me where it says citizens have a right to live here that permanent resident aliens don't have.