JW

Responding to all:

That you believe is something I take for granted. That you are sincere in your belief is to be expected or, at least, hoped for. This thread was not intended to argue for or against those beliefs.

To me, there are incongruities in the design and justifications for such beliefs. They appear before me as the self serving machinations of an egomaniacal race of creatures whose aim is establish their uniqueness and thus, their right to destroy all of creation if it suits them to do so. Again, to me, there are extreme disconnects between God's stated design and the power and intelligence attributed to Him. It all comes across as a tale to frighten children into conformity and awarding an unprovable reward for complying.

If God were to demand of me as He did of Job, "Who are you to question me?" I would answer that I am His creation, putting to gainful use the free will He created within me. That is the paradox that I am unable to resolve. What kind of fool would encourage a child to explore and examine his world and then leave a loaded gun on the kitchen table with nothing more than a warning not to touch it? What caring parent would ever do such a thing?

Abraham50

Yes we are His creation for His purpose and will, not ours, His will, will be done, not ours. Thank God

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

Now God, being all knowing, would have known what we humans would do with our free will, he had to know, thus we were placed in a no win situation such that now, God knowing we would sin, set the stage for him to send his "son" as a sacrifice for our fore ordained sins, which even though you say we chose to commit, God actually knew we would and thus it was NOT by our choice. Thus now, God has this belief in Jesus thing such that we can get forgiveness for our sin, hanging over our heads, such that we must ask forgiveness for doing exactly what we we made to do, since there isn't the slightest possibility that we would not have sinned. How convenient for him, that we now must plead with him to forgive us as if he can't stand to be around our ugly sinful natures despite having made us to be exactly that; as if his "forgiveness" makes us any less sinful but since we claim to believe the son story, we are then forgiven and he can now stand to be around us.

Like the one I now hate, Colbert said, "those weird Mormons who got their word of god on gold plates from an angel on a hill, when everyone knows that gods word came on stone tablets, from a burning bush on mountain."

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

Quit listening to Satan whispering in your ear JW.

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

I'll say the same thing to you that I said to JW nwtk2007...Quit listening to Satan whispering in your ear.

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

"The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also. I would not interfere with any one's religion, either to strengthen it or to weaken it. I am not able to believe one's religion can affect his hereafter one way or the other, no matter what that religion may be. But it may easily be a great comfort to him in this life--hence it is a valuable possession to him."

- Mark Twain, a Biography

Nickolai

https://youtu.be/JikGS6TYMQM.

This is how it happened

Nickolai

I don't have it and I have never felt lost. What does it feel like to be lost

PeterS

What does doing gods perfect will have to do with having the money to pay for food? And if you read JW's post god is all knowing which would mean he would know your fate when he created you. Free will is wonderful and all that but meaningless when no matter what your action is god knows what the last roll of the dice will be.

PeterS

And how do you know it's not your ear he's whispering in?

PeterS

This would mean that god sent Christ to die for our sins for no reason at all...

PeterS

What you are asking is beyond them JW. They are fundamentalists, married to a irrational proposition, and gave up the use of reason a long time ago...

susanblange Loc: USA

The creation of Satan was a side effect of the creation of man. God created us because he was lonely and he was present in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. This garden was perfect and was paradise. It was Heaven on earth. Sin entered the world and A&E were expelled from the garden. Everybody endures suffering, even the Messiah. This was allowed by God to build strength and character. Job 40:19. "He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him". What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. Everything happens for a reason and sometimes only God knows and understands what the reasons are. We need to trust God, he knows what he's doing.

goofball Loc: timbucktoo

Then you must be the perfect person!
Sorry,no such thing!