Just sayin' that the judgement you are applying now may prove to be invalid in years to come.

[quote=UnionSparky]

Good point we should be reminded.
I think the most of us (including Churchill) understand the distinction. ["...and for the republic, for which it stands..."]

Perhaps because it is not a long stretch of logic that our republic stems from democratic ideals, it is I so often hear the terms used interchangably. I've come to rely on the context of the labels.

Strangely enough, Lincoln had no content, no record, was hardly ever casting any v**es, made a loser our of our country and had people wondering can we survive under the rest of his unleadrship.

There were people saying that when Lincoln rendered the Gettysburg Address and proposed Reconstruction. FDR got the same reaction with his New Deal policies.
The American society is changing, at a fast pace. Same sex issues, g****r e******y, wage disparity, minority inclusiveness, birth control---these are subjects that were not topics a comparative short while ago. The turmoil and upheaval of social changes is an unsettling prospect for a complacent status quo who are comfortable with the way things are.
And this isn't just a reflection of us. The whole world is changing. Revolution against "establishment" governments is on-going in different parts of the world. Simultaneously, there are mass protests and r*******ns in Europe, the Middle East, and South America. Even China's government is getting popular resistance.
The final outcome is still being decided. History will be the final verdict and the jury is still out. Judgement of our wisdom--or folly--may not be rendered for another generation.

“Nobody pretends that democracy is perfect or at all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.” — Winston Churchill

Thank God for fools. The president might have that unsightly skin problem--but at least he's sane.

"This man act’s like he has no love for America. No, he has no love for America, none."

I don't run off to Europe either to observe WWII anniversaries. Does that mean I don't love America?
Nor do I take off to Hawaii every Dec. 7th, or Gettysburg every July, or the Alamo every March. Matter of fact, on the recent anniversary of Iwo Jima I stayed home without a thought of the battle. I even stopped attending church regularly; too much of a disruption and hassle to sit through some preacher rant how God is pissed off and Jesus is going to float down from Heaven with an angel army and k**l everybody.
Uh, by the way, the president did attend the ceremony at the Tomb of the Unknowns. Does that count for something?

Not so much about being a conservative--wh**ever that is. The redefinition of conservativism these days is not what I grew up with.
The GOP, tea party, et. al. seems to have a genuine fear of a jobs bill, investment in alternative sources of energy, investment in education, investment in infrastructure, social safety nets, immigration reform, accessible health care...just about anything that helps close the gap of the disparity that is counter to a recovering economy.
Obama has deported more i******s than preceding administrations, both dem and republican. The justice dept. has cracked down on businesses that hire i******s, something that hasn't been enforced before. Border security has been strengthened. Yet he is accused by the right of maintaining an "open border."
The US is presently drilling more domestic oil than we import, something that hasn't happened in the preceding administrations, both democratic and republican. Yet, Obama is accused of hindering the development of domestic oil production.
Before Obama took office, the Dow slipped to under 6,000. Under his administration, it has hit new highs over 16,500. Yet, the president is accused of being anti-business.
As to the traditional conservative platform; no, there is nothing wrong with a prudent budget or a balanced budget. Alan Greenspan said with toungue-in-cheek that Bill Clinton was the best Republican president we've had in decades. But these days, the conservative agenda has gone beyond conservative government with an extreme religious agenda. Suddenly, investment, inclusion of minorities into the mainstream, g****r e******y, control of sky rocketing health care costs, is some sort of godless c*******t conspiracy by a president who h**es America (or something just as inane).
And again, you've restated the so-called conservative philosophy: I got mine, so we don't need solutions. Do nothing and our American way of life and family values will do just fine.

"It would be a good idea for the left to learn something from history, but they h**e what history shows because what they want it something different from the best. The rest of us don't want to slide down the chute into the gutter with them, and the party of No is what we WANT."

Does that history include a Great Depression brought about by business left alone by government? How about economic depression that began in the Bush administration; he left business alone.
And these thriving businesses that don't want government interference of any kind? Who did they appeal to for bailouts when facing bankrupcy?
Do "the rest of us" who want the party of no include the 40 million disenfranchised Americans who lost their homes and jobs? Who is "we?" The majority? The unemployed? The working poor? Poverty level wages is freedom? Reduced income and disparity isn't serfdom?
And as usual, you have expressed the conservative view with paranoid fear of "socialism" and "c*******m" by name calling. Your rants have yet to offer a solution to a stagnant economy.

[quote=Tasine]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you don't get it yet, I doubt you ever will get it. You will wander through the rest of your life wondering why things don't work the way they should.

1. The most government can do for jobs is to butt out.
2. The most government can do for individuals and the most it should do for individuals is to butt out of or lives.
3. The most government can do for the morality and the "r****m" is to butt out of people's conversations.
4. The best government is the one who bothers its citizens the least.
(Do you see any of the above costing a lot?)
5. The best way to get conservatives to shut up is to leave them alone.
6. The freest people on earth are those who see, hear, and feel very little from their government.
7. Companies' purposes are to produce and to profit. That is their ONLY responsibility. Governments' duties are to protect its citizens from foreign invasion and from local crimes. Those should be its only responsibilities - and it is NOT DOING ANY OF IT even though they take oaths to do so.
8. The citizens are the good guys, government is the bad guys - they are paid by US citizens and have the gall to try to shove us around like puppets.

That's it in a nutshell.[/quote

"Clear-sighted men saw with fear the danger that opportunity would no longer be equal; that the growing corporation, like the feudal baron of old, might threaten the economic freedom of individuals to earn a living." --- FDR

How come that isn't in your nutshell?

"The best way to get conservatives to shut up is to leave them alone."

Right now, I'd say they are left very alone. So, alone that Obama got elected to a second term. Also, so alone that the next president will be a Democrat. Also, so alone that the GOP wears the mantle of "the party of no" and "obstructionists."

Sweden, norway, finland, are more socialistic than we are and they have a higher living standard than we do. For some people it works.

"You may not realize this but the main factor that made the US the economic powerhouse that it is/was is the individual personal and economic freedoms associated with free enterprise. We are rapidly loosing that under the present administration."

I realize individual personal and economic freedoms associated with free enterprise suddenly didn't exsist for 40 million Americans before Obama took office. And there you go again: Keeping millions of people at a poverty level standard of living is ensuring our constitutional freedom. Do you really think that makes sense? Your solution is typical of GOP philosophy is to do nothing; suddenly unemployed tax-paying workers are "debt drivers" and "takers." What solutions have the GOP proposed? Calling the president a c*******t is not a solution.

Face reality. Economic disparity has eroded the middle class and drastically reduced purchasing power. That in turn has eroded a tax base and a stagnant economy because nobody can afford goods and services.
The problem I have with the GOP is their solutions are do nothing. Even the key speakers at the CPAC meeting admitted as much. They have a difficult time defining the problem.

No, I did not say I favor c*******m. I said the illogical fear of it to justify an eroded middle class is irrational. You might look at a few socialistic countries and compare them to the US. You don't need to listen to me, just open your eyes, and also maybe study a little history.

That's pretty much it. As much as I respect John McCaine (for example) he's too ready to send our sons and daughters to the other side of the world over Syria or some other armpit of creation in camel land or Africa. To do what? Change minds of lunatics and i***ts?
Just like the school yard bully, if we don't like what Putin is doing, stay away from him. He'll feel the isolation soon enough.

Kennedy dealt with a threat to US security. Such is not the case of what's going on with Putin. At stake is possession of the Crimea, not Ukraine. The dispute within the Crimea is between Russians and Ukraines. We can ask them to play nice, but if either side flips us off, it shouldn't be any consequence if we don't play the game.