woodguru wrote:
Just curious, I have had opinions and observations through the years starting with the catholic priest making personal visits on Saturdays to badger my parents about not paying a full ten percent. That arrogant AH would want to see my dad's pay stubs and go through their budget, I heard him telling them perhaps the house they had bought was over their means. My dad was a union jet mechanic at Delta airlines making $8 an hour, raising five kids, my mom did not work. The house was a budget tract home in Milpitas, which was considered to be a low rent modest neighborhood.
The bottom line is that this priest would badger them into writing a check for a balance of what they had left to get them through the pay period, to where they would be cutting back on the way we were eating. And then there was still the plate being passed at church, and people feeling like they have to put something in the plate.
I think people form their own opinions about what they "owe" to their church, otherwise billed as "giving to god". Wealthier people I'm sure form their own opinions about whether ten percent is too much, those that are god fearing and always invoking god as reasons for the way they are, but don't actually go to church, say they don't need to go to church to be christians, pretty much might toss a few bucks in the plate on one of their rare visits for spiritual connection.
I've also known Mormons, and they take this stuff seriously, they want to see tax returns and W-2's, full tithing is at the core of what they are. I had a mormon group working for me back in the 80's and had a chance to talk to some of them, some were saying that their tithe comes before a car payment. I found that out from someone who had asked me for an advance to make their car payment, Knowing how important it was to them I asked had they made their tithe, thinking they would need more than just the car payment. They said oh no, the tithe comes first.
Many of the hard right wingers I know invoke god a lot, but they are not so devout that they either go to church or contribute to their higher being, otherwise part of being a f**e or alt christian.
Just curious how many people will speak up about where they stand on this.
Just curious, I have had opinions and observations... (
show quote)
I have an hour ride home from work every day and I tossed around whether to answer this or not because you and I have way different views on just about everything. As you can see, I decided to answer. What I have to say really is not applicable to you as you have professed that you have no need for a “higher” being, but here is how I see tithing according to the Bible:
The first and most important part of the issue of tithing is what are you actually giving? I ask a question to make a point. When you die, is your money still yours? Is your house still yours? It my be your estate’s or your heirs but it sure ain’t yours!!!! That said, the point is this, if you believe in God, which I do, then the concept of “your” money is completely flawed!!!! God created the universe and everything in it and we have created nothing. As Christians We are “stewards” of what we have, so I am not giving my money to God, I am giving back a portion of what He has given me.
The next issue, which is intertwined with the first and directly addresses your problem with tithing, and that is the fact that God DOES NOT NEED YOUR MONEY!!!!!!! He spoke the universe into existence and to think that He needs anything I got is quite presumptuous at best!!!! Now I will agree that it is not right for the church to come and wanna see bank statements and check stubs, but the Catholic Church has historically been pretty messed up when it comes to money and done some pretty stupid things. The point of that is that the pastor or bishop or church leader doesn’t have to account for what you do with what God has entrusted you with and that is completely between God and the individual.
So what about tithing? God commands it so as a Christian we ought to have a desire to be obedient. Paul said we should give with a cheerful heart so if we give begrudgingly then we have missed the point and God doesn’t need it anyway?
So who benefits from tithing? Well, first off the giver does: they are obedient and many times find that because they have a little less that they can say they earned they might rely on God more and draw closer to Him. As has been stated in this thread already, God says to bring the tithe and He will pour out blessings that we can’t even contain: now I add caution here as I want to make perfectly clear that not all blessings are monetary and as a matter of fact the best are not so giving thinking that God is gonna give you more money is not the promise He made.
Others can also benefit from what you give thru the church helping people in need, funding missions and may other good things.
One last thought on the steward thing: it is hard to figure out how to give when you live week to week and many people do, but God does expect us to work hard and make good decisions with what we have: many people living from paycheck to paycheck are making poor financial decisions and don’t want to give up anything: bottom line is that if as a Christian you can’t tithe at first, give what you can and look at how you live and what is important to you and make adjustments, take a second job to pay off debts, get rid of all the toys you make payments on....... funny thing is, this idea of examining your finances would do so many people so much good even if they aren’t Christian and aren’t trying to tithe.
God knows a persons heart and knows the real situation and if there is legitimate reasoning that a Christian just cannot make ends meet but sincerely desires to be a good steward and works toward it then God gets that...... but we are expected to make good choices... a fool and his money are soon departed!!!!!!
Now how much is the tithe? Old Testament speaking, a tithe is 10 percent, but I seem to recall that if you went thru the Old Testament law and gave all the offerings required, it would equal like 27%. Malachi speaks of 10%. The New Testament concept I see like this: 10% is a starting point but we should make good decisions with what we have and not try to keep up with the Jones’ cause it ain’t ours anyway, so we should give all we are able to further the gospel.
But end result, if you don’t believe in the God of the Bible, just keep it and when you die somebody else will sleep in your house and drive your car and spend your money for you.