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Posts for: JW
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Feb 2, 2022 14:19:33   #
manning5 wrote:
===========================
A quick reply to your first point: The Precambrian period was a mere 500 to 550 million years ago.

To the second: Have you looked at Dembski's formulation in detail? It is entirely possible for God to wave any block that arises, but the math is usually reliable to show t***h, barring charlatans and mistakes. I simply cannot wave my hand and dismiss math as a logical tool when addressing something that is entirely amenable to its use.

To the third. This gene Orfan is new to me, so I cannot respond without a bit of research. I am not a biologist, and what I do know comes from people like S. Meyers, Behe, and ReMine. In any event, the IC concept is a powerful theory, and it is so simple to apply. So far, I have no appreciation of any mechanism that defeats IC short of
God's intervention Himself, especially when to my knowledge, no one has been able to show the full progression from many lower forms to, say, Man, or a horse, or a dog. Further, one might ask where all the information came from for the first cell, something Darwin did not address: the origin of life, and for the enormous number of cells needed during the Precambrian explosion for which there were no immediate or a few generations back predecessors ever found. There are a lot of fossils for the prior few billion years, but none at the
Burgess Shale related to the many life forms generated just 500 years ago!

(The Miller experiment has been shown not to be useful in the origin-of-life research.)

I am suspicious of any mechanism that so conveniently defeats Irreducible Complexity. Can you describe how Orfan does this in a bit more detail?
=========================== br A quick reply to yo... (show quote)


Sure, do you have any relationship to assembly language programming? If so, you will understand the concept of 'stop bits'. A stop bit serves the function of terminating a machine reading sequence. It is necessary so that the computer can make sense of the code and execute its instructions properly. It conveys no information but provides a means of controlling how the computer reads the code. For example, it's a little like the spaces we leave between words. Each space serves to separate the words making reading easier. Withoutthem,thesentencemaybe understoodbyahumanbutisunintelligibletoanautomaticprocess.

Genes work the same way. When a gene is missing the 'stop bit', instead of making a nose like a parental nose, it could make a nose that just keeps growing, or is modified in other ways, depending on what genetic coding was crashed into because of the missing stop-reading instruction. It could result in a nose whose nostrils open sideways or one with no nostrils at all or one on top of the head instead of in the middle of the face. Major changes may take millennia but once started in a particular direction, the flow is established. The history of whales is a great exemplar of the processes involved because it has almost no missing links.

At least, that is my understanding of it.
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Feb 2, 2022 13:17:58   #
336Robin wrote:
So where is the proof?

Nada, none, zilch.

What exactly do you base your beliefs on of anything for that matter?


How about the 120,000 odd WI v**ers registered and v****g, all born on 1/1/1918? Whether a legitimate issue or not, we deserve to have it cleared up and not by some official or erstwhile fact checker saying it's nothing to worry about.
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Feb 2, 2022 01:46:15   #
Oldsailor65 wrote:
Whoopie Goldberg suspended from 'The View': Breaking News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCHoE7a0_xA


I don't care for Whoopie. Never have, but suspension for an opinion expressed honestly, however incorrectly, Is lunatic behavior from her employer!
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Feb 2, 2022 01:42:44   #
manning5 wrote:
If we are all in agreement, I will compose the letter to Admin requesting a user-managed Section called Metaphysics and the Paranormal. The managers will be skyrider, JW and manning5. The purpose will be to provide a place more private for our discussions, and participants will have to voluntarily sign in.

We will begin with four activities as focal points of the effort: 1) Definition of terms led by JW; 2) Collection and distribution of experiences let by skyrider; 3) Exploration and classification of sources led by manning5; and 4) Researching the collected material by all three of us. Others may participate, of course.
Any suggestions before I send the letter are welcome. I hope to send it tonight.
If we are all in agreement, I will compose the let... (show quote)


Go for it!
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Feb 2, 2022 01:40:55   #
336Robin wrote:
It wasn't stolen. That is what your handlers want you to say. You have zero proof it was. 000000 proof.


Then why do you object to a comprehensive audit to get the proof? I'm willing to be proven wrong, if that is really the case. Why aren't you?
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Feb 2, 2022 01:38:30   #
RascalRiley wrote:
Trump had not stated before the e******n that he could only loose if there was c***ting.

I know you see it as t***h. I would too if I was on your side of the fence. We both are looking at opposite side of the same fence of activity. There is no doubt on your side of the fence that Trump should still be President.

From my perspective the big lie was very carefully planned and perfectly executed. It worked and the USA is now in chaos and more deeply divided.

He has to maintain that he won. Trump could never accept a loss. No new evidence. But lots of accusations and the building up of the h**e for the alleged c***ters. Divide and conquer.
Trump had not stated before the e******n that he c... (show quote)


A video of Trump, on e******n day, shows him talking to some of his e******n workers and he can be heard saying that losing is hard for him to deal with. He stated more than once prior to e******n day the mail-in system would guarantee c***ting and it would cost him the e******n.

We are getting close to revelation day. Be patient. The t***h is on its way.
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Feb 2, 2022 01:31:32   #
RascalRiley wrote:
Now you know.

It has nothing to do with the tens of thousands of Abrahamic religions each of which claim to know the ultimate t***h.


You are definitely having difficulty comprehending what I have written. Let's assume it is my writing. Hypocrisy retains its fundamental meaning irrespective of the version of religion you appeal to... or appeals to you.

Get it?
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Feb 2, 2022 01:27:52   #
Zemirah wrote:
JW, you wish to avoid "impersonal certainty"(which equates with "absolute certainty?")

Relativism and Absolutism are categories that are mutually exclusive and jointly exhaustive; the two categories form a dichotomy, and thus the rejection of absolutism is a necessary and sufficient condition for the embrace of relativism.

This means Relativity is in, while Absolutes are verboten... negating the possibility of an actual debate, therefore the term "discussion," - suitable for a like minded group?

You seek not religious experiences, which are locked in cement, but spiritism.

Spiritism is a religion, self-described as a spiritualistic philosophy. Spiritist philosophy postulates that humans, along with all other living beings, are essentially immortal spirits that temporarily inhabit physical bodies for several necessary incarnations to attain moral and intellectual improvement. It also asserts that disembodied spirits, through passive or active mediumship, may have beneficent or malevolent influence on the physical world.

Spiritism is an evolution-affirming religion.

What is the objective?
JW, you wish to avoid "impersonal certainty&q... (show quote)


Are you asking what is my objective? To learn, to see the other side of the coin.

Whether or not we are inhabiting spirits, I can't say, but it is one question I would certainly like to see answered. I resent dogma; it is intellectually confining and counter to understanding.

I have no objection to the insertion of any idea if it is relevant to the discussion. I am not able to see how a constant appeal to Biblical authority can be useful... or tolerable.
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Feb 2, 2022 01:17:21   #
lindajoy wrote:
Isn’t the whole topic itself inference??

Isn’t Inference the process of deriving logical conclusions from premises known or assumed to be true?? Or is it only conceptual to the person inferring something?


Not the topic but certainly, the process, yes. We do not know for a certainty what is t***h and what is perception. Perception may be reality, but it is not necessarily t***h. We are dealing in perception. Inference is the means by which reality is measured. T***h is the hoped-for eventual result.
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Feb 2, 2022 01:08:54   #
manning5 wrote:
====================================

I smiled as I read your post! I completely agree that God had all the ways he needs to accomplish His objectives.
And I smiled again when your blasted Gould!
My belief is in Intelligent Design, and three of its principles that are more or less contra evolution: 1. The Precambrian result, especially since no one can produce any forerunners, earth revolution or not (Meyer); 2. the mathematical impossibility of random combinations to result in any meaningful structures in 4.7 billion years (Dembski). and 3. the concept of irreducible complexity (Behe). I did read Walter J ReMine's book on evolution, and to me it was devastating for evolution. Oh, and I thought GD meant Gratefully Dead, right?
So let us agree to disagree here and move on. We can pick this up in a different thread, OK?
==================================== br br I smil... (show quote)


I also see intelligent design in the systems of life on Earth. However, and this rests on my understanding of the difference between consciousness and awareness, it is not necessarily external to the life itself. The ability to apply a new capability successfully is essential for survival. That is an intelligent action. It requires consciousness but does not require awareness until the complexity of the organism can itself become a stumbling point.

Regarding your three points:

1) I think I addressed that already. There are no fossils older than about 3.5 billion years extant on planet Earth. Life clearly had to start before that since the oldest animal fossils we have (Burgess shales) are already fairly advanced.

2) This is where I get into my hottest arguments with atheists. Mathematical impossibility has nothing to do with life. If the rules require that specific chemical/physical reactions will always produce predictable results, and they do, then the generation of life is a foregone conclusion because life does exist. That may sound like begging the question and it might be. I see it more in the light of not denying the obvious and working backwards from there.

Simply stated, the universe exists. We are still learning but we know things like when 2Hs bump into an O, we get water. There are vast clouds of water in the galaxy. There are vast clouds of organic molecules, like ammonia, floating around out there. There is an extinguished sun they claim is one huge diamond. All of those things occur by natural means because the processes are regular and predictable. Life is the same. Our appearance on Earth was inevitable because the rules make it so.

God gave us brains and a desire to understand creation. We're trying. We're here because God's rules make our presence mandatory.

3) Orfan genes make irreducible complexity impossible and an upward drive toward complexity a certainty.
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Feb 1, 2022 13:00:43   #
RascalRiley wrote:
Do you know what hypocrisy means?


hypocrisy
[həˈpäkrəsē]
NOUN
the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

Just what I said!
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Feb 1, 2022 12:47:12   #
RascalRiley wrote:
The Bible can be made to say anything you want. Just look at how many different flavours of Abrahamic religions there are. Tens of thousands.


Hypocrisy is hypocrisy in every one of those variations.
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Feb 1, 2022 12:24:36   #
microphor wrote:
JW, I noted the person RR challenged you for judging but had no problem judging Trump. Just another hypocrite!


A lot of that on the Left now-a-days.
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Feb 1, 2022 12:22:16   #
RascalRiley wrote:
I do not claim to be a Christian. No hypocrisy on my part.


Hypocrisy is not a religious fault. It is applying rules and standards to others from which you exempt yourself.
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Feb 1, 2022 12:20:00   #
RascalRiley wrote:
You are right. Trump, a practiced liar made it up.


Comprehension problems? I said "liars', plural.
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