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The Universal Mind, God, and the Big Bang...
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Jan 28, 2022 03:56:19   #
JW
 
Please, if you have only derision and name-calling to add, post it somewhere else. Everyone's contributions are welcome but, seriously, an honest request, let's keep this thread courteous and on topic.

I have spent many years trying to understand the reality that we exist within. Some people are convinced God created everything and others are convinced that God is a byproduct of everything that exists. Either way, we face the same question, where is the point of origin; was there a mysterious Big Bang that started everything or where did God come from in order to create everything. Neither point of view has a logical answer. Where is the point of origin?

So, if God created everything, where did God come from? One could argue that God has always existed but that makes no logical sense. If everything came out of the Big Bang, where did the thing that banged come from? One could say that the material that materialized has always existed but that makes no logical sense either. Perhaps our concept of logic is wrong.

Einstein developed an interesting concept when he presented the world with E=MC2. That equation is the basis of every nuclear power plant, every nuclear weapon and explains radioactive decay. It says that energy and matter can be converted into each other, E=MC2 and M=E/C2. We know it works. We've tested it and some of us are charging our computers by its output. That also confirms the validity of our logic, by the way.

Our brains work by electricity. OK, maybe not exactly, electricity like in your walls, but they do work because various chemicals move electrons about. That is what the EEG machine reads when a patient undergoes a scan.

Are there any circumstances that would allow for energy having always existed? Because, if there is, and if the brain runs on electrical energy then there is no reason God, or a universal mind, could not have evolved in a field of pure energy, able to think and, being energy, manipulate energy to its own ends. After all, brains did, not exactly the same way, I'll grant. We know for a fact that brains have a very long developmental history on Earth.

That is the basis of my considerations, so far. I have not reached a conclusion and may never accomplish that, but it is a beginning point... and yes, energy could have an infinite existence.

Reply
Jan 28, 2022 04:42:21   #
skyrider
 
JW wrote:
Please, if you have only derision and name-calling to add, post it somewhere else. Everyone's contributions are welcome but, seriously, an honest request, let's keep this thread courteous and on topic.

I have spent many years trying to understand the reality that we exist within. Some people are convinced God created everything and others are convinced that God is a byproduct of everything that exists. Either way, we face the same question, where is the point of origin; was there a mysterious Big Bang that started everything or where did God come from in order to create everything. Neither point of view has a logical answer. Where is the point of origin?

So, if God created everything, where did God come from? One could argue that God has always existed but that makes no logical sense. If everything came out of the Big Bang, where did the thing that banged come from? One could say that the material that materialized has always existed but that makes no logical sense either. Perhaps our concept of logic is wrong.

Einstein developed an interesting concept when he presented the world with E=MC2. That equation is the basis of every nuclear power plant, every nuclear weapon and explains radioactive decay. It says that energy and matter can be converted into each other, E=MC2 and M=E/C2. We know it works. We've tested it and some of us are charging our computers by its output. That also confirms the validity of our logic, by the way.

Our brains work by electricity. OK, maybe not exactly, electricity like in your walls, but they do work because various chemicals move electrons about. That is what the EEG machine reads when a patient undergoes a scan.

Are there any circumstances that would allow for energy having always existed? Because, if there is, and if the brain runs on electrical energy then there is no reason God, or a universal mind, could not have evolved in a field of pure energy, able to think and, being energy, manipulate energy to its own ends. After all, brains did, not exactly the same way, I'll grant. We know for a fact that brains have a very long developmental history on Earth.

That is the basis of my considerations, so far. I have not reached a conclusion and may never accomplish that, but it is a beginning point... and yes, energy could have an infinite existence.
Please, if you have only derision and name-calling... (show quote)


I believe that this is the most important topic of all time, JW. I would hope that this could become an ongoing
topic on this forum. I am already beginning some serious dialogue with Manning about this and would hope that you will join in.

Reply
Jan 28, 2022 07:38:56   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
JW wrote:
Please, if you have only derision and name-calling to add, post it somewhere else. Everyone's contributions are welcome but, seriously, an honest request, let's keep this thread courteous and on topic.

I have spent many years trying to understand the reality that we exist within. Some people are convinced God created everything and others are convinced that God is a byproduct of everything that exists. Either way, we face the same question, where is the point of origin; was there a mysterious Big Bang that started everything or where did God come from in order to create everything. Neither point of view has a logical answer. Where is the point of origin?

So, if God created everything, where did God come from? One could argue that God has always existed but that makes no logical sense. If everything came out of the Big Bang, where did the thing that banged come from? One could say that the material that materialized has always existed but that makes no logical sense either. Perhaps our concept of logic is wrong.

Einstein developed an interesting concept when he presented the world with E=MC2. That equation is the basis of every nuclear power plant, every nuclear weapon and explains radioactive decay. It says that energy and matter can be converted into each other, E=MC2 and M=E/C2. We know it works. We've tested it and some of us are charging our computers by its output. That also confirms the validity of our logic, by the way.

Our brains work by electricity. OK, maybe not exactly, electricity like in your walls, but they do work because various chemicals move electrons about. That is what the EEG machine reads when a patient undergoes a scan.

Are there any circumstances that would allow for energy having always existed? Because, if there is, and if the brain runs on electrical energy then there is no reason God, or a universal mind, could not have evolved in a field of pure energy, able to think and, being energy, manipulate energy to its own ends. After all, brains did, not exactly the same way, I'll grant. We know for a fact that brains have a very long developmental history on Earth.

That is the basis of my considerations, so far. I have not reached a conclusion and may never accomplish that, but it is a beginning point... and yes, energy could have an infinite existence.
Please, if you have only derision and name-calling... (show quote)

So, let's start in Genesis 1:1, with what I consider the most controversial passage of the entire Bible. It says this; "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

If you believe that, nothing else in the Bible is hard to believe. Nothing existed and God created it all out of nothing. God created the universe, the heavens, everything you see, everything you don't see. He created it all. And then He created earth as a special one of the planets to be inhabited by all humankind; the crown of His creation. If you believe that, there's nothing else in the Bible that will be hard for you to believe.

But most people don't make it out of Genesis 1:1 without saying, "No, that's not how it happened." There's no way there was a God who created everything out of nothing, let alone on six literal days. Listen, God created everything out of nothing in six literal 24 hour days, 'cause that's what the Word of God teaches. So, at the end of our day, if we can believe chapter one and verse one, then everything else is not a problem.

So, chapter 1 verse one says that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. And so, we see that the earth was formless and void, and there was darkness over the surface of the deep and the Spirit of God was moving on the surface of the waters.

You may say so what? But what we have here with further revelation is the Triune God. In the beginning, God, the Hebrew Elohim, plural, the strong, powerful God, created the heavens and the earth. So, who all was there?

In John 1:1, John, speaking of Jesus says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us." So, who else was there?

Jesus.

And who else was there? The Holy Spirit hovering over the waters.

So, what do you have? The Father, Son and Holy Spirit creating everything!

Here's what we also know. Because God was the only eyewitness at creation, His testimony is the only one that counts, right?

Charles Darwin wasn't there.

We weren't there.

Nobody else was there.

Anytime you don't believe that God is the only one who created. And anytime you don't believe the way He said what He did, it's because you'd rather believe man's ideas than what God has to say in His Word. It's as simple as that. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Reply
 
 
Jan 28, 2022 08:31:38   #
DASHY
 
Parky60 wrote:
So, let's start in Genesis 1:1, with what I consider the most controversial passage of the entire Bible. It says this; "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

If you believe that, nothing else in the Bible is hard to believe. Nothing existed and God created it all out of nothing. God created the universe, the heavens, everything you see, everything you don't see. He created it all. And then He created earth as a special one of the planets to be inhabited by all humankind; the crown of His creation. If you believe that, there's nothing else in the Bible that will be hard for you to believe.

But most people don't make it out of Genesis 1:1 without saying, "No, that's not how it happened." There's no way there was a God who created everything out of nothing, let alone on six literal days. Listen, God created everything out of nothing in six literal 24 hour days, 'cause that's what the Word of God teaches. So, at the end of our day, if we can believe chapter one and verse one, then everything else is not a problem.

So, chapter 1 verse one says that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. And so, we see that the earth was formless and void, and there was darkness over the surface of the deep and the Spirit of God was moving on the surface of the waters.

You may say so what? But what we have here with further revelation is the Triune God. In the beginning, God, the Hebrew Elohim, plural, the strong, powerful God, created the heavens and the earth. So, who all was there?

In John 1:1, John, speaking of Jesus says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us." So, who else was there?

Jesus.

And who else was there? The Holy Spirit hovering over the waters.

So, what do you have? The Father, Son and Holy Spirit creating everything!

Here's what we also know. Because God was the only eyewitness at creation, His testimony is the only one that counts, right?

Charles Darwin wasn't there.

We weren't there.

Nobody else was there.

Anytime you don't believe that God is the only one who created. And anytime you don't believe the way He said what He did, it's because you'd rather believe man's ideas than what God has to say in His Word. It's as simple as that. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
So, let's start in Genesis 1:1, with what I consid... (show quote)


God was the only witness to creation. Stories about God and creation were passed down orally and written down by diverse authors. The entire Bible Story is man's idea of what God has to say in His Word. It's as simple as that.

Reply
Jan 28, 2022 09:08:27   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
DASHY wrote:
God was the only witness to creation. Stories about God and creation were passed down orally and written down by diverse authors. The entire Bible Story is man's idea of what God has to say in His Word. It's as simple as that.

Do you really believe that God isn't powerful enough to inspire men write down what He wants in His Word? Looks like you couldn't get past Genesis 1:1. You're free to believe wh**ever you want. God gave you free will. Just remember to use it wisely which doesn't seem to be the case in your situation -- and I'm not being mocking or anything, I'm just stating t***h in love.

Reply
Jan 28, 2022 09:40:42   #
saltwind 78 Loc: Murrells Inlet, South Carolina
 
JW wrote:
Please, if you have only derision and name-calling to add, post it somewhere else. Everyone's contributions are welcome but, seriously, an honest request, let's keep this thread courteous and on topic.

I have spent many years trying to understand the reality that we exist within. Some people are convinced God created everything and others are convinced that God is a byproduct of everything that exists. Either way, we face the same question, where is the point of origin; was there a mysterious Big Bang that started everything or where did God come from in order to create everything. Neither point of view has a logical answer. Where is the point of origin?

So, if God created everything, where did God come from? One could argue that God has always existed but that makes no logical sense. If everything came out of the Big Bang, where did the thing that banged come from? One could say that the material that materialized has always existed but that makes no logical sense either. Perhaps our concept of logic is wrong.

Einstein developed an interesting concept when he presented the world with E=MC2. That equation is the basis of every nuclear power plant, every nuclear weapon and explains radioactive decay. It says that energy and matter can be converted into each other, E=MC2 and M=E/C2. We know it works. We've tested it and some of us are charging our computers by its output. That also confirms the validity of our logic, by the way.

Our brains work by electricity. OK, maybe not exactly, electricity like in your walls, but they do work because various chemicals move electrons about. That is what the EEG machine reads when a patient undergoes a scan.

Are there any circumstances that would allow for energy having always existed? Because, if there is, and if the brain runs on electrical energy then there is no reason God, or a universal mind, could not have evolved in a field of pure energy, able to think and, being energy, manipulate energy to its own ends. After all, brains did, not exactly the same way, I'll grant. We know for a fact that brains have a very long developmental history on Earth.

That is the basis of my considerations, so far. I have not reached a conclusion and may never accomplish that, but it is a beginning point... and yes, energy could have an infinite existence.
Please, if you have only derision and name-calling... (show quote)


I believe that G-d is eternal. G-d was there way before the Big Bang and will be here long after the universe is gone. I also believe that G-d created the universe through natural law, which includes the laws that made the Big Bang happen. That is a far greater accomplishment, than the supreme being saying Abra cadabra, and more believable. Thats just my thoughts on the matter.

Reply
Jan 28, 2022 10:11:59   #
DASHY
 
saltwind 78 wrote:
I believe that G-d is eternal. G-d was there way before the Big Bang and will be here long after the universe is gone. I also believe that G-d created the universe through natural law, which includes the laws that made the Big Bang happen. That is a far greater accomplishment, than the supreme being saying Abra cadabra, and more believable. Thats just my thoughts on the matter.


The concept of "natural law" came a few million years after God the Creator and God and the Big Bang. Do we know the language used to write the original gospels?

Reply
 
 
Jan 28, 2022 14:49:37   #
JW
 
Parky60 wrote:
So, let's start in Genesis 1:1, with what I consider the most controversial passage of the entire Bible. It says this; "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

If you believe that, nothing else in the Bible is hard to believe. Nothing existed and God created it all out of nothing. God created the universe, the heavens, everything you see, everything you don't see. He created it all. And then He created earth as a special one of the planets to be inhabited by all humankind; the crown of His creation. If you believe that, there's nothing else in the Bible that will be hard for you to believe.

But most people don't make it out of Genesis 1:1 without saying, "No, that's not how it happened." There's no way there was a God who created everything out of nothing, let alone on six literal days. Listen, God created everything out of nothing in six literal 24 hour days, 'cause that's what the Word of God teaches. So, at the end of our day, if we can believe chapter one and verse one, then everything else is not a problem.

So, chapter 1 verse one says that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. And so, we see that the earth was formless and void, and there was darkness over the surface of the deep and the Spirit of God was moving on the surface of the waters.

You may say so what? But what we have here with further revelation is the Triune God. In the beginning, God, the Hebrew Elohim, plural, the strong, powerful God, created the heavens and the earth. So, who all was there?

In John 1:1, John, speaking of Jesus says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us." So, who else was there?

Jesus.

And who else was there? The Holy Spirit hovering over the waters.

So, what do you have? The Father, Son and Holy Spirit creating everything!

Here's what we also know. Because God was the only eyewitness at creation, His testimony is the only one that counts, right?

Charles Darwin wasn't there.

We weren't there.

Nobody else was there.

Anytime you don't believe that God is the only one who created. And anytime you don't believe the way He said what He did, it's because you'd rather believe man's ideas than what God has to say in His Word. It's as simple as that. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
So, let's start in Genesis 1:1, with what I consid... (show quote)


So, you already have your conclusion. It is a settled matter in your mind, then you have nothing to offer this discussion. That is your prerogative. This thread is supposed to be for the exploration of an idea, not a sales job on religion.

Reply
Jan 28, 2022 14:57:10   #
JW
 
skyrider wrote:
I believe that this is the most important topic of all time, JW. I would hope that this could become an ongoing
topic on this forum. I am already beginning some serious dialogue with Manning about this and would hope that you will join in.


Where are you posting?

Reply
Jan 28, 2022 14:58:34   #
JW
 
saltwind 78 wrote:
I believe that G-d is eternal. G-d was there way before the Big Bang and will be here long after the universe is gone. I also believe that G-d created the universe through natural law, which includes the laws that made the Big Bang happen. That is a far greater accomplishment, than the supreme being saying Abra cadabra, and more believable. Thats just my thoughts on the matter.


Nothing presented in the OP disagrees with what you have said here.

Reply
Jan 28, 2022 14:58:53   #
DASHY
 
Parky60 wrote:
Do you really believe that God isn't powerful enough to inspire men write down what He wants in His Word? Looks like you couldn't get past Genesis 1:1. You're free to believe wh**ever you want. God gave you free will. Just remember to use it wisely which doesn't seem to be the case in your situation -- and I'm not being mocking or anything, I'm just stating t***h in love.


All bible authors were probably inspired by what they believed to be God's Word. The only other thing they had to go by was the recollections of others who claimed to know God's Word. What does love have to do with it?

Reply
 
 
Jan 28, 2022 15:03:20   #
JW
 
DASHY wrote:
God was the only witness to creation. Stories about God and creation were passed down orally and written down by diverse authors. The entire Bible Story is man's idea of what God has to say in His Word. It's as simple as that.


The Bible story is one point of view, but it is a dead end. There is no possibility of falsifying the contentions. It ignores all questions its claims might raise.

Reply
Jan 28, 2022 15:19:13   #
manning5 Loc: Richmond, VA
 
JW wrote:
Where are you posting?


We began in the Private Messages here and exchanged emails. Email is our intended media, simply because of the kind of related issues that derail our UM focus. Send one to either of us and we will respond.

Reply
Jan 28, 2022 15:23:06   #
skyrider
 
JW wrote:
Where are you posting?


No particular place yet. We have just decided to share thoughts , experiences, ideas, and information, in the quest of
a better understanding of the biggest mysteries. The format of OPP would be a great place because of its ease of use, but I don't think we
will find interest from posters here. Any thoughts?

Reply
Jan 28, 2022 15:28:28   #
JW
 
manning5 wrote:
We began in the Private Messages here and exchanged emails. Email is our intended media, simply because of the kind of related issues that derail our UM focus. Send one to either of us and we will respond.


Sent my email address...

Reply
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