I thought you were a medical expert. Don't you know that as people age, after about age 30, their bones begin to deteriorate. With increasing age, bones lose mass and mineral content, they are prone to osteoporosis, they become less dense and brittle, more fragile, and are more susceptible to fractures.

Epstein was 66 years old and weighed 180 pounds. If Epstein was kneeling and the noose was secured to a bed post, he would have had to fall forward to put his weight into it. The force on his neck would have been lateral, not vertical as in a gallows h*****g. Much easier to break bones in the neck and spine with a lateral force.

When I was a firefighter, we responded to a call of a suicide by h*****g in a university dorm. When we arrived, a campus police officer was already there. He had determined the victim was not breathing and there was no pulse. The paramedics with us confirmed that. No one moved the body or cut him down until the city police officers dispatched had arrived. The sergeant who investigated ruled it an unintentional auto-erotic asphyxiation. That was obvious.

The victim was about 18 or 19 years old, was quite thin, and weighed about 130 or 40 pounds. He had fashioned a noose with several pairs of panty hose, tied it to a ceiling beam, and stood on a chair. He either stepped off of it or kicked it out from under him. He was naked except for the panty hose he wore with a hole cut in the crotch, his g*****ls exposed. A knife lay on the floor beneath him, so he apparently intended to cut himself down before it was too late.

When the police sergeant finished his notes and concluded his investigation, he said we could cut him down so the ambulance crew could t***sport the body.

We assisted the paramedics in getting the body down and secured in a body bag. A paramedic cut the rope and everyone there noticed immediately that his neck was broken. His head flopped around without any skeletal or muscle support at all. Some vertebrae in his neck had obviously separated.

I never read the autopsy report on this guy so I have no clue what condition his body and bones were in. All I can say is he didn't appear very healthy, and it didn't take much to break his neck.

I don't know how or why Dr. Barbara Sampson, the NY ME, ruled Epstein's death a suicide. I don't know the extent or severity of internal injuries she found, including bone breaks. I don't know if she was politically motivated or under some kind of pressure. I don't know if she had been coerced, intimidated, or threatened in any way.

And neither do you.

I do know that if Dr. Sampson is a professional and wanted to keep her job, she certainly would have done the autopsy according to the ethics of the medical profession. To do otherwise could subject her to criminal prosecution.

moldy called you a troll? God forbid.

No, OPP is far from my greatest accomplishment in life. OPP is not even an accomplishment, it's just a message board, and the bulk of my posts here are replies and comments, I rarely start any threads.

I am not defending the Clintons, I am defending reality.

When Hillary lost her second shot at POTUS, the Clinton political clout lost with her. A radical change occurred in democrat party politics, a change that purged the party of the Clinton's left of center politics.

Almost the day she lost the e******n, donations to the Clinton Foundation began to dry up, and in short order, the staff was fired and the offices closed. Former allies, associates and donors have abandoned them.

And what are the Clintons doing now? Hillary is pining over her loss and trying to justify why. She has teamed up with daughter Chelsea to write another book. Bill is looking the Grim Reaper in the face and is crying about how things could have been. Neither of them have endorsed a single 2020 democrat candidate, neither of them are stumping for any of them.

Over the course of the last 11 years, the Clinton cabal has disintegrated.

Much can be said about monumental flaws in the conspiracies surrounding the trail of bodies supposedly dumped along their way to the top. Conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones and dozens of conspiracy websites like Reddit, Motherjones, Globalresearch and Whatreallyhappened jumped on this.

Multiple versions of this “body count” list have been circulating online for two decades now. According to those lists, close to fifty colleagues, advisors, and citizens who were about to testify against the Clintons died in suspect circumstances, with the unstated implication being that Bill Clinton or his henchmen were behind each untimely demise. New victim names are routinely added and old ones taken off, forming an endless variety of permutations. At this point, there is no one “official” list.

But where did all this craziness start? In a 1994 letter to congressional leaders, former Rep. William Dannemeyer listed 24 people with some connection to Clinton who had died “under other than natural circumstances” and called for hearings on the matter.

Dannemeyer’s list of “suspicious deaths” was largely taken from one compiled by Linda Thompson, an Indianapolis lawyer who in 1993 quit her year-old general practice to run her American Justice Federation, a for-profit group that promotes pro-gun causes and various conspiracy theories through a shortwave radio program, a computer bulletin board, and sales of its newsletter and videos.

Her list, called “The Clinton Body Count: Coincidence or the Kiss of Death?” then contained the names of 34 people she believed had died suspiciously and who had ties to the Clinton family. Thompson admitted she had “no direct evidence” of Clinton’s k*****g anyone. Indeed, she said the deaths were probably caused by “people trying to control the President” but refused to say who they were. Thompson said her allegations of murder “seem groundless only because the mainstream media haven’t done enough digging.”

Ah, but they had. If not before she put her list together, at least afterwards. Anyone who continues to state the mainstream media has given these claims short shrift is being disingenuous.

Since 1994, various respected news outlets have been confronted with versions of the “Clinton Body Count” list, run their own investigations of a few of the claims, and found nothing to substantiate what they looked into. Those investigations would culminate in yet another story about an oddball conspiracy rumor.

But conspiracy theories don’t die that easily. These “body count” lists and the many specious claims contained therein continue to circulate in cyberspace and beyond: yesterday’s newspaper articles are forgotten with the next day’s delivery, but e-mail lives forever.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

The bottom line on this piece of e-lore? It’s a badly worked laundry list dressed up to appear significant. The promised damning connections to the Chief Executive are missing, with innuendo misinformation offered up in their place. Nothing ties Clinton to any of these deaths, something this list (and others of its ilk) conveniently glosses over. What evidence is offered that would compel a rational person to believe there was Clinton involvement in any of these deaths?

Clinton was acquainted with some people who died — that’s about all one can make of this list. Indeed, that’s far more than can be made of a number of the entries, specifically, that of Ives and Henry and all those supposedly tied to theirs.

Though it’s clear from digging through numerous newspaper articles there was a thriving and dangerous drug culture in Little Rock, how or why this should be connected to Bill Clinton is left unanswered. Regrettably, Little Rock is akin to numerous other large cities: it has its share of drug dealers, murders, and violence. It also has one very famous citizen. And that’s about as much of a connection as anyone can make.

Whereas a typical private citizen has a much smaller circle of acquaintance, those in public office come into contact with a great many people over the course of their careers. It is therefore not unusual to find at least a few accidental deaths, homicides, and suicides among any politician’s list of contacts. (For example, a “body count” list exists for George Bush.)

A number of suicides are enumerated in this list. Suicide is far from an unusual mode of demise. It claims 32,000 lives in the U.S. every year, and it’s the 9th leading cause of death. It is indeed a rare person who does not know someone who died by his own hand.

Deaths by airplane crash account for a number of entries on the list. Again, this is not all that surprising. Every year many small planes crash in the United States, and some of those crashes result in fatalities. As mentioned above, the National T***sportation Safety Board investigates every one of them, to determine both the cause of the accident as well as to gather data that will help prevent future tragedies. The agency does a thorough job of looking into the circumstances surrounding each downed plane. To describe any of the plane crash deaths on this list as “suspicious” is to suggest the NTSB was part of a coverup.

There have been a couple of unsolved murders (Jerry Parks, Kevin Ives, and Don Henry), but there have also been deaths by natural causes that have been tossed into the mix willy-nilly simply to boost the body count. (As we said earlier, how can anyone claim a death by pneumonia was a suicide?) All the best lies make sure to mix a bit of t***h in with them, and the few genuinely unsolved murders work to cloak the many less credible claims in an aura of plausibility. Don’t be overly bemused by them — study each entry on its own merits.

One final question to ask yourself before falling for any Clinton Body Count list: If the Chief Executive was having people bumped off left, right, and center, why aren’t Monica Lewinsky and Linda Tripp on this list? At the time of Mary Mahoney’s death — a death this list hints was ordered by Clinton — neither Tripp nor Lewinsky were the high-profile household names they now are; they were complete unknowns. It would be another six months before information about them would explode into the news. If the President were in the habit of having those dangerous to his presidency put in the ground, why didn’t he order these deaths?

That said, Hillary should be held accountable for much more egregious crimes than those put out in unproven conspiracy theories about Arkancide and a Murder, Inc cabal.

The fool that started this thread is supposed to be all about "facts". Babylonbee is a SATIRE website.

You got some nerve there, bub. That is a truly nasty insult to OPP members who have been here for years.

Ignorance of the democrat party's radical t***sformation that began the day Bubba left office is a real comfort zone, isn't it?

The 2008 democrat primaries were the nastiest in American history. A brand new political ideology gutted Clinton politics. Hillary got a consolation prize, but she screwed the pooch big time with that one. And the stupid broad got another body slam in 2016.

It is hilarious that so many still believe the Clintons remain the king and queen of democrat power and that their so-called cabal remains a force of nature.

I was 14 when a 12 year old girl introduced me to blow jobs.

It is a real strain on anyone's mental capacity to assume he or she knows with absolute certainty what really happened in Epstein's cell at 6:30am on August 10. It is a real strain on anyone's mental capacity to assume that news reports and second hand info are reliable sources for what actually happened. Some sources say "suicide", some say "murder", some say "assisted suicide", some are promoting conspiracy theories, some are debunking them--the plethora of reporting about this incident is confusing, conflicting and contradictory. Epstein died less than a week ago and already everyone but those who were actually there at the time assume they know how he died. Assumptions, conjecture, and preconceived notions are definitely a real strain on anyone's mental capacity.

Yo, Jimmy Boy, the Federal Office of Personnel Management establishes the standards for hiring within the Executive Branch, that includes the Federal Bureau of Prisons. Unions have nothing to do with the hiring process or scheduling staff work loads. Unions represent employees AFTER they are hired, not before.

The Mooch was appointed as White House Communications Director, not press secretary. He was never confirmed, job lasted 10 days. Mooch got fired after an expletive-laden interview with The New Yorker's Ryan Lizza, in which he made obscene and strongly derogatory statements about several members of the Trump administration.

You and the Scary Mooch have much in common--soul mates.

Are you really that naive? Or, were you neutered when you were a pup?

An incident that occurred 22 years ago.

Are you gay? Emasculated? Celibate? Don't like women? What is your problem?

Check some other threads on Epstein, there is info on the conditions existing at MCC Manhattan and the federal prison system in general. It ain't a pretty picture.

Here is a compilation of the stupidest anti-gun comments you've ever heard. The ignorance of these liberals is actually mind-boggling.

How exactly are you going to make semi-automatic firearms disappear? I mean, 1/3rd of the 300 million firearms in US citizens hands are semi autos, that's 100 million, 10 million or so are AR15s. But it doesn't end there, guns, especially self-defense weapons like semi-auto handguns, and AR15s are selling like hotcakes.

Please be sure an let us know if you ever decide to engage in any meaningful debate about firearms. Your unrelenting screams about banning semi-auto firearms definitely disqualifies you.