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Oct 18, 2019 21:56:02   #
Tug484 wrote:
It is supposed to be the whole house, not a committee. Read the Constitution again


No arguement you are right that is what it says. Your comment only refers to part of the picture.

The House brings impeachment charges against federal officials as part of its oversight and investigatory responsibilities. Individual Members of the House can introduce impeachment resolutions like ordinary bills, or the House could initiate proceedings by passing a resolution authorizing an inquiry. The Committee on the Judiciary ordinarily has jurisdiction over impeachments, but special committees investigated charges before the Judiciary Committee was created in 1813. The committee then chooses whether to pursue articles of impeachment against the accused official and report them to the full House. If the articles are adopted (by simple majority v**e), the House appoints Members by resolution to manage the ensuing Senate trial on its behalf. These managers act as prosecutors in the Senate and are usually members of the Judiciary Committee. The number of managers has varied across impeachment trials but has traditionally been an odd number. The partisan composition of managers has also varied depending on the nature of the impeachment, but the managers, by definition, always support the House’s impeachment action.
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Oct 18, 2019 08:25:37   #
Tug484 wrote:
Another thing, the Constitution says impeachment is to be done by the house, not a committee.


Impreachment is , investigations are done by assigned committee and the result are presented to the house for a v**e on the articles. Inpreachment is political it is based on what the house defines as being ethical actions. Before anyone brings up the federal papers on impreachment it discusses how the impreachment can become a criminal or civil case. Because the process only has guidelines not details. The only definitions provided by the Constitution is for treason. High crimes and Misdemeanors, Treason and Bribery are when impreachment is called for. If the inpreachment has to many criminal charges that is when it can become criminal case at which time the house cannot try a criminal case. The items that were brought up with Mueller's report can be used as examples for the articles. Whether the infomation was gotten through illegal means or not. When the articles come to a v**e that is when other repesentives have to be convinced to accept the presented view.
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Oct 11, 2019 22:31:14   #
eagleye13 wrote:
https://youtu.be/wVCKC0mX0f4

Go to minute 6 for Impeachment Hysteria


Uh so , the story is the same , one side says this , the other says that.
The corruption was under investigation before H****r was on the board. H****r was doing the same as Trump when he gave his name to the different companies. The main difference is that Trump actually has some experience
while H****r did not. Questionable yes but is not illegal. Biden statement was stupid. The same as with some statements made by Trump. Yes the investigation was reopened and the result was that H****r did not do anything illegal. Now when everything get settled the s**t will hit the fan and the effect will be dramatic. So like I've said before it may be because of the bias. But when the statement made by Trump on the phone that he needs a favor and then Biden's name it was reported.
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Oct 10, 2019 08:13:51   #
JW wrote:
My first clue that Obama was going to be a problem was his spending $300,000.00 to get a photo of him in Air Force One flying past the Statue of Liberty. That happened a few days after his inauguration. My second clue came when he opted to shut down half of NYC for his well advertised "date night" with Michelle. He clearly misunderstood the office of the Presidency.

Those two things should have been obvious to everyone and may have been but no one objected because all the black people were in seventh Heaven having a black President. All of the guilty white people were getting released from social Purgatory for the same reason. The media celebrated an historic news item that guaranteed them at least four years of fun and profit. The remainder of Americans kept their mouths shut because to utter a word of opposition, justified or not, was to invite charges of r****m.

The fact that he was not impeached, especially when he announced that Congress was irrelevant as long as he had his pen and his phone, was a matter of splashing egg all over the face of the nation or keeping quiet. The country kept quiet while looking into the magic mirror, chanting, who is the fairest in the land. The mirror, err, TV answered back, 'that ever-so-lovely-Michelle and her Hubby, Barky Obama'.

Obama's "edit button" was the Press. In Trump's case, it is a defective megaphone that can only broadcast slanted versions and misrepresentations of what he says. With so much anti-Trump propaganda floating about, his only option is self-promotion.

Trump is exactly what he says he is and what he says he is not a common commodity in America, maybe in the world, and most certainly not in politics.

I don't think the Dems give a tinker's damn about Hillary, one way or the other. What they h**e isn't even Trump. What they h**e is that he is undoing more than a hundred years of Progressive, one-world, political construction and doing it in the worst way possible. He is doing it by showing the world that his way IS the way to prosperity and the Progressive agenda is nothing more than another failing version of Marxism.
My first clue that Obama was going to be a problem... (show quote)


Question for you , Why now the same calls are being made about Trump and his supporters now , what changed ? Personally I think no one really cared what Obama was doing. Rather didn't care enough to try and bring up anything against him. The one thing Trump has done for sure is to get more people take notice what can happen if they don't pay attention. The current feeling will drop to the past levels once Trump is out of office which will let the same thing happen again. Our style of government is like a child it has to be looked after not let loose and allow to run wild. The people elected have to be held accountable. When you v**e only along the party line you are not holding the representatives accountable. As for the media they always have been in the game to make money and always will. Passing the infomation presented without checking on the validity is also not holding the media accountable.
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Oct 10, 2019 01:58:40   #
Ranger7374 wrote:
Impeachment according to both Hamilton and Madison is a criminal trial. This is why, it is classified as "Treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors"

No matter how you look at it, it is a criminal case. Now the arguments in Federalist papers 65 and 66 concern an impeachment court. That type of court could be corrupted is Hamilton's argument.

In order for impeachment to be proper the House has to accuse, and the Senate try the case. With the Chief Justice presiding over the case.

In the articles of impeachment, the rules are set by the House. These articles must be v**ed on by members of the House. To date this has not occured.

So what we have here is one faction presuming that the president is guilty before proving it. That circumstance is a threat to the Constitution and the American people. Therefore, Trump is right for invoking executive privilege and preventing the faction in questioning any of his administration until such time as fairness returns to the house.

The House has a duty to protect the president's rights as well as investigate these circumstances surrounding him. To date they have not done this.
Impeachment according to both Hamilton and Madison... (show quote)


I've got a different understanding on my read but it is an opinion, you don't argue opinions. Agreed with the second statement. On the Articles you have to have them to v**e on them according to reports they are still being discussed. As for using executive privilege if the question needs to be asked to help with defining the articles the questions should be allowed but only along the lines of the articles being defined.
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Oct 10, 2019 00:45:10   #
JW wrote:
[zombinis3]I think there is a misunderstanding on what impreachment is , it is not a criminal case it is strictly a moral one. The framework was taken from the British , the officials were accused of misappropriating government funds, appointing unfit subordinates, not prosecuting cases, not spending money allocated by Parliament, promoting themselves ahead of more deserving candidates, threatening a grand jury, disobeying an order from Parliament, arresting a man to keep him from running for Parliament, losing a ship by neglecting to moor it, helping “suppress petitions to the King to call a Parliament,” granting warrants without cause, and bribery. (most of which occurred during the Obama Admin.) Some of these charges were crimes. Others were not. The one common denominator in all these accusations was that the official had somehow abused the power of his office and was unfit to serve.
The debates in the house whether it is because that the people can't handle the loss or Trump is screwing up the norm. It is that there is enough to start the process , to declare Trump unfit for the office. Now if it is enough to actually be brought up we will never know until it gets passed to the Senate.

https://www.crf-usa.org/impeachment/high-crimes-and-misdemeanors.html
zombinis3 I think there is a misunderstanding on ... (show quote)

Sorry my system is acting up you are right the entire statement is a bit rough.

It is a common statement Obama has done the same as Trump. The difference is no one on ether side started the process when Obama was in office. Also when the Republicans tried to impreach a popular president they got their butts handed to them by the v**ers. So even if Obama wasn't the best
He did have a edit button and unlike Trump who does not use an edit button.
One of the things that helped get Trump elected was his plain speaking. Which can be spun in any direction. At times he knows he has enemies but he still makes statements that can be used against him. Most statements on this site state that the whole reason why the hatred is present is that the dems do not want to admit that they lost. So at any time the dems start to do something it called a bias.
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Oct 9, 2019 23:52:58   #
Ranger7374 wrote:
Let me begin with some words from Alexander Hamilton:

"There will be no jury to stand between the judges who are to pronounce the sentence of the law, and the party who is to receive or suffer it. The awful discretion which a court of impeachments must necessarily have, to doom to honor or to infamy the most confidential and the most distinguished characters of the community, forbids the commitment of the trust to a small number of persons."- Alexander Hamilton

"Who would be willing to stake his life and his estate upon the verdict of a jury acting under the auspices of judges who had predetermined his guilt?" -Alexander Hamilton

"It ought not to be forgotten that the demon of faction will, at certain seasons, extend his sceptre over all numerous bodies of men." -Alexander Hamilton

"But though one or the other of the substitutes which have been examined, or some other that might be devised, should be thought preferable to the plan in this respect, reported by the convention, it will not follow that the Constitution ought for this reason to be rejected. If mankind were to resolve to agree in no institution of government, until every part of it had been adjusted to the most exact standard of perfection, society would soon become a general scene of anarchy, and the world a desert. Where is the standard of perfection to be found? Who will undertake to unite the discordant opinions of a whole community, in the same judgment of it; and to prevail upon one conceited projector to renounce his INFALLIBLE criterion for the FALLIBLE criterion of his more CONCEITED NEIGHBOR?" -Alexander Hamilton.


These quotes were taken from Federalist Papers #65.


Basically the impeachment and recall from office rule was injected into the Constitution to be used for criminal purposes. It is a check on our elected officials to prevent "Treason, Bribery, High Crimes and Misdemeanors". Madison and Hamilton agree that an elected official must be impeached and removed through a full responsibility of Congress and the Supreme Court in impeachment concerning the head of the Executive Department, the President. All representatives involved in an impeachment, or impeachment inquiry have to be placed on record.

There have been investigations. Some of these investigations have been debunked. Some have not. From the time before Donald Trump was Elected until now, the Democrats and Trump's enemies have been trying to impeach Donald Trump. There are news broadcasts of allegations against Donald Trump. However none of these allegations have entered into a court of law. How can Donald Trump exercise his Constitutional granted powers and protections?

This push for impeachment is being decided by one faction of the American community, that community is called the 'far left', the liberals, or the Democrats. As history has shown in the past few years, they will not quit. This is their choice. However, We, the people and citizens of these United States, are watching this soap opera play out. Before you decide whether or not Trump is guilty or innocent remember that the president is still an American Citizen.

Now being an American Citizen first, he enjoys the protections of the Constitution in all cases. Which means he has the following rights:

First amendment-
Freedom of speech
Freedom of the press
Freedom of religion
Freedom of assembly
Right to petition the government

Second amendment:
Right to bear arms

Third amendment:
Protection against housing soldiers in civilian homes

Fourth amendment:
Protection against unreasonable search and seizure
Protection against the issuing of warrants without probable cause

Fifth amendment:
Protection against trial without indictment, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, property seizure

Sixth amendment:
Right to a speedy trial
Right to be informed of charges
Right to be confronted by witnesses
Right to call witnesses
Right to a legal counsel

Seventh amendment
Right to trial by jury

Eighth amendment:
Protection against- excessive bail, excessive fines, cruel and unusual punishment

Ninth amendment:
Rights granted in the Constitution shall not infringe on other rights.

Tenth amendment:
Powers not granted to the Federal Government in the Constitution belong to the states or the people.

Being president of the United States, he also has powers invested into him from Article II of the Constitution.

Now, to open this discussion remember what is written here in. Let's judge as Americans based upon the guidelines stated above: Should Trump be impeached? And more importantly, is the House of Representatives, representing us, the American Public? Are they legally and faithfully carrying out thier duties as they are bound by the Constitution to do? Is Trump? Let the games begin.....
Let me begin with some words from Alexander Hamilt... (show quote)


I think there is a misunderstanding on what impreachment is , it is not a criminal case it is strictly a moral one. The framework was taken from the British , the officials were accused of misappropriating government funds, appointing unfit subordinates, not prosecuting cases, not spending money allocated by Parliament, promoting themselves ahead of more deserving candidates, threatening a grand jury, disobeying an order from Parliament, arresting a man to keep him from running for Parliament, losing a ship by neglecting to moor it, helping “suppress petitions to the King to call a Parliament,” granting warrants without cause, and bribery. Some of these charges were crimes. Others were not. The one common denominator in all these accusations was that the official had somehow abused the power of his office and was unfit to serve.
The debates in the house whether it is because that the people can't handle the loss or Trump is screwing up the norm. It is that there is enough to start the process , to declare Trump unfit for the office. Now if it is enough to actually be brought up we will never know until it gets passed to the Senate.

https://www.crf-usa.org/impeachment/high-crimes-and-misdemeanors.html
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Oct 9, 2019 23:07:35   #
ACP45 wrote:
Zombinis - I will not dispute your point that first hand knowledge is not required to file a whistleblower report. But you are focusing on the tree and missing the forest.

"In short, a registered Democrat on the CIA payroll went to Adam Schiff's committee, who referred him to a Democratic operative attorney, who helped him file a whistleblower complaint."

Yesterday we learned "that the whistleblower has "a professional relationship with one of the 2020 candidates" - as revealed by Inspector General Michael Atkinson during a closed-door interview with the House last Friday."

Then we hear that former State Department official Peter Van Buren told Tucker Carlson on Monday that the second 'whistleblower' is simply the the source for the original 'second-hand' complaint. Did the media investigate the validity of the second complaint before running with the story?

If that is true, it sure seems evident to me that that this is a manufactured incident, and was created out of political bias and animus. We have read the actual transcript of the call which shows no quid pro quo between the withholding of aid, and the request to investigate the matter of corruption involving the Bidens.

This is a favorite tactic of the MSM. They blast the story intensely for a couple of days on the front page, and then run a correction or retraction on page 35 in small print days later after the intended damage is done.
Zombinis - I will not dispute your point that firs... (show quote)


Never claimed that there was an quid pro quo but reading the transcript, I need a favor and Biden name was mentioned. Was sufficient for the report to be brought up, even if the people involved has the close ties to the accused party the process was followed. It may have been caused by the bias but the process is if something comes up and it needs to be looked into it should be. Since the fall as far as the MSM not checking first it always has been profit first.
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Oct 9, 2019 08:13:42   #
ACP45 wrote:
This my friends is how you create a "manufactured incident", or as Tucker Carlson alludes to as "Kavanaugh 2.0".

In short, a registered Democrat on the CIA payroll went to Adam Schiff's committee, who referred him to a Democratic operative attorney, who helped him file a whistleblower complaint on a form which was altered to allow second-hand information. Then you get a second whistleblower to come forward who turns out to be the source for the first whistleblower. Amazing stuff!

I personally think the American public understands what is going on here.


https://youtu.be/eJ_mDrtEjmQ?t=228
This my friends is how you create a "manufact... (show quote)


First hand knowledge not require for reporting the possibilty , but the complaint will not be acted on until more infomation is available. The ICIG understood that certain language could be read and misunderstood. The wording would have been taken literally so no report would be made.
The section changed never meant that the whistleblower couldn't file the complaint.
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/10/video-false-whistleblower-rule-claim/

If the feedback loop is being used or not it is for individual to accept or not. The reasoning for the change is sound.
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Oct 6, 2019 23:25:44   #
proud republican wrote:
Because she does not have enough v**es!!!...There are 235 Dems and 199 Republicans..30 Dems are in for ree******n in 2020 in Red States/Districts where T***p w*n big!!!..You need 218 v**es to impeach....You do the math!!!..And BTW none of the Republicans will v**e to Impeach President Trump!!!


Not according to this report from Fox just based on the number of Representatives who requested the inquiry they have enough. The loss can be 18 v**es as dems , but the independent says he'll v**e for the articles. Even if the dems are in red states the final choice will be with the v**ers. It's based on what the v**ers are thinking on the various items that Trump could be charged with.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-democrats-impeachment-articles-v**es
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Oct 4, 2019 08:09:18   #
factnotfiction wrote:
Of course the usual mouthpieces like fat limbah, hanutty and the usual OPP cons will simply deny that trump said what he said.



https://www.huffpost.com/entry/shepard-smith-trump-fox-news-china_n_5d967a62e4b0da7f6623e902


He did mention he could pull the trigger in Times Square and people will still support him. Humans have always had a flexible morality.
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Oct 4, 2019 08:04:01   #
Peewee wrote:
I believe in unity. If you have many different beliefs you will never have unity. It will eventually tear a society apart given time. A tribe, community, or nation who have the same core beliefs is always stronger.
It will self regulate making it more stable. Islam is forced compliance on the pain of death. Families will k**l there own children for thinking outside the box. Cults are just as bad. India has the cast system, not good if you're on the bottom. They still set people on fire for being different and attack entire villages for being different. Those are destructive and not based on mutual love and respect. Christianity and Jews have the best beliefs in my opinion. Strong families and happy people for the most part. But the human race has a sin problem and it infects everyone. Even the best. Just laws based on a firm foundation is the best antidote to sin. But only if the judges are just. The seven deadly sins are always at work to corrupt every system. It's a never-ending battle between good and evil. C*******m, socialism, marxism always lead to mass murder. Just look at Hong Kong or Taiwan. They are happy and just want to work and live in peace. China just won't allow it. It's not about unity it's about power and control by the elites so they can skim all the cream for themselves. Same for the central bank controlled nations. They rob the wealth of nations for the dreams of the elite of an NWO system where they will sit at top of their pyramid scheme and control everything. Life does begin at conception is both a faith and a scientific fact. I have to get ready to go to a conference. But I am enjoying our discussion. It's a three-day conference and then I'm going out of state until around the 15th. I doubt I'll have much time to be on OPP until I return. Have a great day and talk to you later.
I believe in unity. If you have many different bel... (show quote)


OK , enjoy your conference you also have a great day thank you for the thoughtful discussion.
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Oct 3, 2019 23:02:36   #
Peewee wrote:
During the Salem witch trials is about the only time I know of when religion was forced on anyone. Prejudice and r****m is a different ball of wax. That isn't a religion. Before the Constitution, some religion was forced if you lived in a certain colony or territory. Mormons were forced to move a few times but that was because they had multiple wives and other odd beliefs but they weren't forced to believe another religion. Some native Americans were mistreated and if they wanted food and blankets had to do what the Indian agent told them, I'd call that forced because they couldn't just walk off the Rez. But what the Salvation Army does isn't the same, if you don't want to listen stay hungry and sleep outside, no one is forced.

If someone thinks a******n is just dandy and another thinks it's murder, it gets challenged in court and the laws are modified depending on how the court rules. That's not forcing religion on anyone unless aborting babies is declared a religion. I guess someone will soon declare Satanism or Moloch is their new old religion and they need to k**l babies. But they will have to do the way they are doing it now. Under the guise of a******n. Murder is still illegal for sane people and still on the books. I really don't like shades of gray, something is either right or wrong. If a Jew reads the NT it doesn't make them a Christian and if a Christian reads only the first five books of the Bible it doesn't make them Jewish. The same goes for Catholics and Protestants. If we don't control immigration we'll soon have people from India and 200 more gods. Allah is already one too many and it just isn't compatible with American values or our Constitution. Most don't want to assimilate they want to take over. It's in the Koran and Mohammed commands it. And that's why I'm a Christian and a Conservative until I die. If you allow me to live in peace I'll return the favor. Try to force me and one or both of us might die. If libs win people will die because they never allow people to live in peace. They want power, control, and all our money. No thanks! I do think it may be time for a Constitutional Convention. If I had my way only Christians and Jews would be allowed in the US. But I don't have the authority or the power or the v**es.
During the Salem witch trials is about the only ti... (show quote)


I have to apologize if my statement lead you to believe that I thought religion was what was being forced. That was not what I meant what was meant is that life starts at conception that is what is based on faith. My statement was meant in accordance to what a group believes. It does not tie in to what you have been taught it is what a group wants laws to reflect. Example the acceptance of the moment that the egg and sperm have combined it automatically should be considered a human. You stated if you had your choice you would allow Christian and Jews into the country. Which I have to think that you prefer to live in a theocracy. By your comments I gather that you believe that at conception it is to be considered human. One suggestion about the Jews if your beliefs is conception then you should read what Jews think about a******n.

https://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_a******n.htm
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Oct 3, 2019 08:10:03   #
Peewee wrote:
That was informative and educational. It didn't change my opinion in the least bit.

People have always wanted to cover up mistakes to save the family embarrassment, especially if the dad or mom is an important person like a minister, banker, Pope, or Principle.

A******ns have been done just to preserve a women's figure, some have been slipped an a******n-inducing drink without their knowledge. Boyfriends and Pimps punch or kick a woman until she aborts. Single moms sometimes look the other way when they know a boyfriend is abusing their children male and female. By law, PP is supposed to report underage girls to LE, they don't in most cases and she is sent home with her abuser.

I think a******ns are just another form of abusing women and young girls and needs to end. It cheapens everyone's respect for life and coarsens society to the death of the only innocent one in the triangle. No one has a right to murder another. Mistreat a dog or cat there is a fine, k**l a baby, nothing.

There are many ways to not get pregnant today, the pill, IUDs, rubbers, a shot, tieing the tubes, a vasectomy, and #1 celibacy. If PP really wanted to help women and men, offer those services. Then no one would have to die by being ripped apart. They could even offer easy payment plans at little or no interest. But I bet they will never do that. So I hope ACLJ puts them out of business and it's looking pretty good that they will. My memory is fuzzy but I seem to recall that in the beginning, PP gave out the pill for free.
That was informative and educational. It didn't ch... (show quote)




It wasn't meant to try to change your opinon , your opinon if you believe it you going to stick with it. It was meant to give a view on what the discussion has gone through. A******n is a football that is passed around for the benefits or separation of people. When it is convenient for it to be put aside it is when it is needed to redirect it comes out again. It is based on faith not fact when at times like now people need something to help them through it does. My main problem is when belief is being forced on the majority. The law maybe right or wrong according to your view ,it does give a framework to ensure the best for all.
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Oct 2, 2019 22:13:41   #
jwrevagent wrote:
My point was that a baby is not actually able to live on its own, nor is a toddler, nor actually is a teen. They breathe, yes, but babies and toddlers cannot provide for themselves. I was using a broader definition of "viability" than normal-but if the baby is not a human baby at conception, then what is it? Elephant babies are elephants in the womb-no one expects a goat, for instance, out of an elephant, and I could go on. If this fertilized egg, which has all the DNA markers for all of its characteristics is not human, than what is it? And if it is not human, when does it become human? Roe v Wade answered none of those questions that I can see, yet approved the removal of a growing human from a mother's uterus for wh**ever reasons they gave. So again, we know it is alive, because it is growing-presumably it is human, thus it has the right to life-otherwise why are some people who k**l pregnant women charged with two murders-there was one in Milwaukee a few years ago, and he was charged and found guilty of the murder of two human beings. So, which is it? That is my question.
My point was that a baby is not actually able to l... (show quote)


Roe vs Wade used Christian theology and the canon law which fixed the point of animation at 40 days for a male and 80 days for a female, a view that persisted until the 19th century, there was otherwise little agreement about the precise time of formation or animation. There was agreement, however, that prior to this point the fetus was to be regarded as part of the mother, and its destruction, therefore, was not homicide.
In the thirteenth century, Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas wrote that a soul enters the body at 40 days after conception for males and 80 days for females. That became church doctrine for many centuries, and a******n before that time of ensoulment was not considered a mortal sin. The belief that life begins at conception apparently has its origins in an 1869 decree by Pope Pius IX that a******n at any point in pregnancy was cause for excommunication.
In the early Roman Catholic church, a******n was permitted for male fetuses in the first 40 days of pregnancy and for female fetuses in the first 80-90 days. Not until 1588 did Pope Sixtus V declare all a******n murder, with excommunication as the punishment. Only 3 years later a new pope found the absolute sanction unworkable and again allowed early a******ns. 300 years would pass before the Catholic church under Pius IX again declared all a******n murder. This standard, declared in 1869, remains the official position of the church, reaffirmed by the current pope.

Church Doctrine
A number of churches, including United Church of Christ, Episcopal,Presbyterian (USA) and United Methodist, do not approve of a******n as a means of birth control. However, they support the right of a woman to obtain an a******n, if she deems that is the best choice in her circumstances, and they favor keeping a******n legal.
https://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_a******n.htm

Other churches, including Roman Catholic and Southern Baptist, oppose all a******ns and favor making a******n illegal. Here is a sampling of official church positions from the three largest denominations in the U.S.

Roman Catholic:
Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.
Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured a******n. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct a******n, that is to say, a******n willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law.
From Catechism of the Catholic Church, (c) 1994, United States Catholic Conference, Inc., http://www.nccbuscc.org/catechism/text/index.htm

Southern Baptist:
Procreation is a gift from God, a precious trust reserved for marriage. At the moment of conception, a new being enters the universe, a human being, a being created in God's image. This human being deserves our protection, wh**ever the circumstances of conception.
From Position Statements, Copyright (c) 1999 - 2001, Executive Committee of the Southern Baptist Convention, http://sbc.net/default.asp?url=position-statements.html

United Methodist:
The beginning of life and the ending of life are the God-given boundaries of human existence. While individuals have always had some degree of control over when they would die, they now have the awesome power to determine when and even whether new individuals will be born. Our belief in the sanctity of unborn human life makes us reluctant to approve a******n. But we are equally bound to respect the sacredness of the life and well-being of the mother, for whom devastating damage may result from an unacceptable pregnancy. In continuity with past Christian teaching, we recognize tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify a******n, and in such cases we support the legal option of a******n under proper medical procedures. We cannot affirm a******n as an acceptable means of birth control, and we unconditionally reject it as a means of g****r se******n. We oppose the use of late-term a******n known as dilation and extraction (partial-birth a******n) and call for the end of this practice except when the physical life of the mother is in danger and no other medical procedure is available, or in the case of severe fetal anomalies incompatible with life. We call all Christians to a searching and prayerful inquiry into the sorts of conditions that may warrant a******n. We commit our Church to continue to provide nurturing ministries to those who terminate a pregnancy, to those in the midst of a crisis pregnancy, and to those who give birth. Governmental laws and regulations do not provide all the guidance required by the informed Christian conscience. Therefore, a decision concerning a******n should be made only after thoughtful and prayerful consideration by the parties involved, with medical, pastoral, and other appropriate counsel.
From The Book of Discipline of The United Methodist Church--2000, ¶161J. Copyright 2000 by The United Methodist Publishing House, http://www.umc.org/abouttheumc/policy/

The whole discussion about a******n has varied history it took the church awhile to agree when a******n becomes murder. The law right or wrong has leveled the field so who can support the child can. Those who can't support the child know what is available to help make a decent decsion. Like I've mentioned before informed consent , safety for both the mother and child,
And the requirement to inform parents if underage mother's is enforced by the language in the law. Is it time to update the law probably ,things have changed
But giving rights to one and then taking them from another shouldn't be allowed.
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