Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ

Let me begin with some words from Alexander Hamilton:

"There will be no jury to stand between the judges who are to pronounce the sentence of the law, and the party who is to receive or suffer it. The awful discretion which a court of impeachments must necessarily have, to doom to honor or to infamy the most confidential and the most distinguished characters of the community, forbids the commitment of the trust to a small number of persons."- Alexander Hamilton

"Who would be willing to stake his life and his estate upon the verdict of a jury acting under the auspices of judges who had predetermined his guilt?" -Alexander Hamilton

"It ought not to be forgotten that the demon of faction will, at certain seasons, extend his sceptre over all numerous bodies of men." -Alexander Hamilton

"But though one or the other of the substitutes which have been examined, or some other that might be devised, should be thought preferable to the plan in this respect, reported by the convention, it will not follow that the Constitution ought for this reason to be rejected. If mankind were to resolve to agree in no institution of government, until every part of it had been adjusted to the most exact standard of perfection, society would soon become a general scene of anarchy, and the world a desert. Where is the standard of perfection to be found? Who will undertake to unite the discordant opinions of a whole community, in the same judgment of it; and to prevail upon one conceited projector to renounce his INFALLIBLE criterion for the FALLIBLE criterion of his more CONCEITED NEIGHBOR?" -Alexander Hamilton.

These quotes were taken from Federalist Papers #65.

Basically the impeachment and recall from office rule was injected into the Constitution to be used for criminal purposes. It is a check on our elected officials to prevent "Treason, Bribery, High Crimes and Misdemeanors". Madison and Hamilton agree that an elected official must be impeached and removed through a full responsibility of Congress and the Supreme Court in impeachment concerning the head of the Executive Department, the President. All representatives involved in an impeachment, or impeachment inquiry have to be placed on record.

There have been investigations. Some of these investigations have been debunked. Some have not. From the time before Donald Trump was Elected until now, the Democrats and Trump's enemies have been trying to impeach Donald Trump. There are news broadcasts of allegations against Donald Trump. However none of these allegations have entered into a court of law. How can Donald Trump exercise his Constitutional granted powers and protections?

This push for impeachment is being decided by one faction of the American community, that community is called the 'far left', the liberals, or the Democrats. As history has shown in the past few years, they will not quit. This is their choice. However, We, the people and citizens of these United States, are watching this soap opera play out. Before you decide whether or not Trump is guilty or innocent remember that the president is still an American Citizen.

Now being an American Citizen first, he enjoys the protections of the Constitution in all cases. Which means he has the following rights:

First amendment-
Freedom of speech
Freedom of the press
Freedom of religion
Freedom of assembly
Right to petition the government

Second amendment:
Right to bear arms

Third amendment:
Protection against housing soldiers in civilian homes

Fourth amendment:
Protection against unreasonable search and seizure
Protection against the issuing of warrants without probable cause

Fifth amendment:
Protection against trial without indictment, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, property seizure

Sixth amendment:
Right to a speedy trial
Right to be informed of charges
Right to be confronted by witnesses
Right to call witnesses
Right to a legal counsel

Seventh amendment
Right to trial by jury

Eighth amendment:
Protection against- excessive bail, excessive fines, cruel and unusual punishment

Ninth amendment:
Rights granted in the Constitution shall not infringe on other rights.

Tenth amendment:
Powers not granted to the Federal Government in the Constitution belong to the states or the people.

Being president of the United States, he also has powers invested into him from Article II of the Constitution.

Now, to open this discussion remember what is written here in. Let's judge as Americans based upon the guidelines stated above: Should Trump be impeached? And more importantly, is the House of Representatives, representing us, the American Public? Are they legally and faithfully carrying out thier duties as they are bound by the Constitution to do? Is Trump? Let the games begin.....

bggamers Loc: georgia

I personally feel that congress is abusing their position by changing rules to push their agenda. They are not doing the job they were elected by spending the American people's money in lawsuits and f**e evidence actually they have already tried convicted him in a public venue they just can't push their agenda for sentencing so this is Guilty till we can hang you

zombinis3 Loc: Southwest

I think there is a misunderstanding on what impreachment is , it is not a criminal case it is strictly a moral one. The framework was taken from the British , the officials were accused of misappropriating government funds, appointing unfit subordinates, not prosecuting cases, not spending money allocated by Parliament, promoting themselves ahead of more deserving candidates, threatening a grand jury, disobeying an order from Parliament, arresting a man to keep him from running for Parliament, losing a ship by neglecting to moor it, helping “suppress petitions to the King to call a Parliament,” granting warrants without cause, and bribery. Some of these charges were crimes. Others were not. The one common denominator in all these accusations was that the official had somehow abused the power of his office and was unfit to serve.
The debates in the house whether it is because that the people can't handle the loss or Trump is screwing up the norm. It is that there is enough to start the process , to declare Trump unfit for the office. Now if it is enough to actually be brought up we will never know until it gets passed to the Senate.

https://www.crf-usa.org/impeachment/high-crimes-and-misdemeanors.html

JW

[zombinis3]"I think there is a misunderstanding on what impreachment is , it is not a criminal case it is strictly a moral one. The framework was taken from the British , the officials were accused of misappropriating government funds, appointing unfit subordinates, not prosecuting cases, not spending money allocated by Parliament, promoting themselves ahead of more deserving candidates, threatening a grand jury, disobeying an order from Parliament, arresting a man to keep him from running for Parliament, losing a ship by neglecting to moor it, helping “suppress petitions to the King to call a Parliament,” granting warrants without cause, and bribery." (most of which occurred during the Obama Admin.) "Some of these charges were crimes. Others were not. The one common denominator in all these accusations was that the official had somehow abused the power of his office and was unfit to serve."


What exactly does the following mean? "The debates in the house whether it is because that the people can't handle the loss or Trump is screwing up the norm. It is that there is enough to start the process , to declare Trump unfit for the office. Now if it is enough to actually be brought up we will never know until it gets passed to the Senate."

zombinis3 Loc: Southwest

Sorry my system is acting up you are right the entire statement is a bit rough.

It is a common statement Obama has done the same as Trump. The difference is no one on ether side started the process when Obama was in office. Also when the Republicans tried to impreach a popular president they got their butts handed to them by the v**ers. So even if Obama wasn't the best
He did have a edit button and unlike Trump who does not use an edit button.
One of the things that helped get Trump elected was his plain speaking. Which can be spun in any direction. At times he knows he has enemies but he still makes statements that can be used against him. Most statements on this site state that the whole reason why the hatred is present is that the dems do not want to admit that they lost. So at any time the dems start to do something it called a bias.

Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ

Impeachment according to both Hamilton and Madison is a criminal trial. This is why, it is classified as "Treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors"

No matter how you look at it, it is a criminal case. Now the arguments in Federalist papers 65 and 66 concern an impeachment court. That type of court could be corrupted is Hamilton's argument.

In order for impeachment to be proper the House has to accuse, and the Senate try the case. With the Chief Justice presiding over the case.

In the articles of impeachment, the rules are set by the House. These articles must be v**ed on by members of the House. To date this has not occured.

So what we have here is one faction presuming that the president is guilty before proving it. That circumstance is a threat to the Constitution and the American people. Therefore, Trump is right for invoking executive privilege and preventing the faction in questioning any of his administration until such time as fairness returns to the house.

The House has a duty to protect the president's rights as well as investigate these circumstances surrounding him. To date they have not done this.

zombinis3 Loc: Southwest

I've got a different understanding on my read but it is an opinion, you don't argue opinions. Agreed with the second statement. On the Articles you have to have them to v**e on them according to reports they are still being discussed. As for using executive privilege if the question needs to be asked to help with defining the articles the questions should be allowed but only along the lines of the articles being defined.

JW

My first clue that Obama was going to be a problem was his spending $300,000.00 to get a photo of him in Air Force One flying past the Statue of Liberty. That happened a few days after his inauguration. My second clue came when he opted to shut down half of NYC for his well advertised "date night" with Michelle. He clearly misunderstood the office of the Presidency.

Those two things should have been obvious to everyone and may have been but no one objected because all the black people were in seventh Heaven having a black President. All of the guilty white people were getting released from social Purgatory for the same reason. The media celebrated an historic news item that guaranteed them at least four years of fun and profit. The remainder of Americans kept their mouths shut because to utter a word of opposition, justified or not, was to invite charges of r****m.

The fact that he was not impeached, especially when he announced that Congress was irrelevant as long as he had his pen and his phone, was a matter of splashing egg all over the face of the nation or keeping quiet. The country kept quiet while looking into the magic mirror, chanting, who is the fairest in the land. The mirror, err, TV answered back, 'that ever-so-lovely-Michelle and her Hubby, Barky Obama'.

Obama's "edit button" was the Press. In Trump's case, it is a defective megaphone that can only broadcast slanted versions and misrepresentations of what he says. With so much anti-Trump propaganda floating about, his only option is self-promotion.

Trump is exactly what he says he is and what he says he is not a common commodity in America, maybe in the world, and most certainly not in politics.

I don't think the Dems give a tinker's damn about Hillary, one way or the other. What they h**e isn't even Trump. What they h**e is that he is undoing more than a hundred years of Progressive, one-world, political construction and doing it in the worst way possible. He is doing it by showing the world that his way IS the way to prosperity and the Progressive agenda is nothing more than another failing version of Marxism.

woodguru

The house does the indictment and investigation part and the senate does the "trial" part.

JW

That is correct, the HOUSE. That is not a single committee nor is it the Speaker. Until the HOUSE v**es on articles of impeachment, the whole thing is political theater, nothing more. There probably aren't enough v**es in the House to impeach and the show is great for Democrat e******neering propaganda.

Crayons Loc: St Jo, Texas

H**e ta tell ya 'sunshine' there has NOT been any formal indictment...it's all smoke n' mirrors/FS-media propaganda.
We're still waitin for You Losers to indict" git the show on the road and quit waistin our time, we work, have family's and don't have time fer all y'all's BS

Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ

Technically, the house Republicans could filibuster the articles of Impeachment until Trump gets reelected. Now wouldthat be something.....lol

Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ

I mean all they would have to do is get recognized by the chair. In this case the Speaker or alternate.

Then the Republicans could perhaps state their protest and man, this would get. Interesting real quick. Then once the Republicans have the floor recognize the president to speak and make his case in a general session of the House. Right on the house floor. Then have the president yield the floor to the house Republicans and continue the filibuster. Then the Republicans hold the floor until an agreement has been reached and move for a v**e on impeachment.

That could be a solution. Have the Pres and his lawyers as guests of the house Republicans speak.Do it in a sense of Mr.Smith goes to Washington.

Now that could destroy the political machine.

Tug484

In less than 48 hours they did Red F**g and took our rights away and then v**ed to not give due process.
They've put us on a highway to hell.

zombinis3 Loc: Southwest

Question for you , Why now the same calls are being made about Trump and his supporters now , what changed ? Personally I think no one really cared what Obama was doing. Rather didn't care enough to try and bring up anything against him. The one thing Trump has done for sure is to get more people take notice what can happen if they don't pay attention. The current feeling will drop to the past levels once Trump is out of office which will let the same thing happen again. Our style of government is like a child it has to be looked after not let loose and allow to run wild. The people elected have to be held accountable. When you v**e only along the party line you are not holding the representatives accountable. As for the media they always have been in the game to make money and always will. Passing the infomation presented without checking on the validity is also not holding the media accountable.