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Nov 5, 2019 18:30:56   #
Louie27 wrote:
The standard of being a whistle blower was, until earlier this year. One had to have first hand information before being called a whistle blower. That standard was changed this year because of Trumps being h**ed by the left.


Yes you are right that is what Trump asked. Something was changed it was the form one of them has three choices the second only two.

As of May 24, 2018, the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community’s Urgent Concern disclosure form — the form whistleblowers fill out — offered three choices to describe how the whistleblower got his/her information: personal knowledge, heard from other people, and other sources.


The current form offers just two choices: personal knowledge or "heard about it from others." That form dates from August 2019.


The previous form also included a section under the subhead "First-hand information required."

"In order to find an urgent concern ‘credible,’ the IC IG (Intelligence Community Inspector General) must be in possession of reliable, first-hand information. The IC IG cannot t***smit information via the ICWPA (Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act) based on an employee’s second-hand knowledge of wrongdoing. This includes information received from another person, such as when a fellow employee informs you that he/she witnessed some type of wrongdoing. (Anyone with first-hand knowledge of the allegations may file a disclosure in writing directly with the IC IG.) Similarly, speculation about the existence of wrongdoing does not provide sufficient basis to meet the statutory requirements of the ICWPA. If you think wrongdoing took place, but can provide nothing more than secondhand or unsubstantiated assertions, IC IG will not be able to process the complaint or information for submission as an ICWPA."

The current reporting form lacks that section.

Based on these facts, Trump and other Republicans asserted that the rules for whistleblowers were changed "just before" the current complaint was filed. Actually, only the forms were changed. The rules stayed the same.
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Nov 3, 2019 16:41:36   #
Lt. Rob Polans ret. wrote:
Let's take the first one, you do know that Giuliani was representing the State dept.?
Someone objecting to a phone call that they did not hear first hand is what is wrong. Being biased against the man is definitely wrong if one is going to take a stand, but he was and he did.
Odd that Zelensky was not even aware of any gap in time re-military aid. I don't know about you, but I stopped listening to the house and the Senate in 1970, they don't have America's interests at heart only theirs.
"political dirt" a phrase Adam Schitt made up.
Let's take the first one, you do know that Giulian... (show quote)


First hand knowledge isn't required to make a report, to accuse it has to be proven that it was in fact wrong. The words I need a favor then Bidens name is mentioned is enough to be considered unethical. Yet it still has to be proven that it was wrong. To find trouble you have to know that it may exist. That is what reports are for to notify.
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Nov 3, 2019 14:50:16   #
JFlorio wrote:
It is 100% inaccurate. Using their definitions Obama should have been impeached over the release of frozen assets to Iran. Or the Taliban swap for the t*****r Bowe Bergdahl. Presidents make deals and threats on foreign aid all the time.Many countries we deal worth are told their foreign aid will be withheld if some behaviors are not changed.


Yes using the definition the house could have , except on the assets Obama couldn't be impeached because that money had been frozen in 79. The Shah of Iran had purchased 400 million dollars worth military aircraft. The United state company didn't follow through on the deal. Normally the money would have been returned except at that time the hostages had been taken in 79. So the money couldn't be returned because of the sanctions that were placed on Iran. This is when the Hague got involved and it took decades to decide on the status. Since losing the case at the Hague would have been more expensive Obama figured it would have been cheaper to settle out of court. With the present sanctions no American currency could be given to Iran. Hell even the government could not get enough alternate currency in a short amount of time.
So a payment plan was made up. There were Two groups involved one was handling the money t***sfer the second group was handling the prisoner problem. Most of my checking uses jumping off points this link is one of them.
https://www.vox.com/2016/9/7/12830688/us-iran-cash-payment-ransom
Like you mentioned you can use almost anything for leverage this isn't aid but it a hell of a lever. Just like everything else it can be spun in any way that is needed.
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Nov 2, 2019 16:15:14   #
To strycker and Louie27 you're right on the situations presented the main problem is that no one from the house thought to bring up impeachment when it appeared to be needed. Impeachment is a strong response to the actons listed. This is what Representative Gerald Ford declared: "An impeachable offense is wh**ever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history." McConnell has been reported to say the same thing. The main point is that since there is no real details in the guidelines listed in the Constitution impeachment can be handled according to what the House Rules says.
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Nov 2, 2019 14:26:14   #
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Read the first...

They made it look like Trump was withholding aid unless the Ukraine investigated Biden...

Have read the transcript... That is inaccurate...


Wasn't saying yea or nay just answering your question on when it started.Giving you some examples every person or reporter will have their own take on the subject. Some say Trump is gulity others says he not, right now that is what the impeachment is about. The one thing I do know is in the transcript he uses the words that he needs a favor and uses Biden name. Which is sufficient according to Ethics that it should be looked into. Second hand knowledge isn't enough to start the investigation but if some more infomation is discovered to support the infomation then it should be checked. We don't know what was found it may have been enough to convince the house to bring up impeachment.
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Nov 2, 2019 09:00:15   #
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Thought the request was in July and the whistle blower was in September?

No?


Ukraine has been known for corruption. There are several articles available on that subject. There are a lot of timelines available most supporters consider them being provided by f**e news sources.
Anyway here are four timelines that have it starting in apr.

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/12/768935251/trump-ukraine-and-the-path-to-the-impeachment-inquiry-a-timeline
https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/467590-timeline-trump-ukraine-and-impeachment
https://www.axios.com/timeline-trump-ukraine-investigation-2e91c79c-d33e-45c4-b78f-6b34bf597e5d.html
https://www.foxnews.com/media/john-solomon-says-new-h****r-biden-related-doc-shows-significant-shift-in-factual-timeline

Npr is pretty cluttered it also presents some additional statements at the moment in the timeline but it also provide an indepth view.
The hill is pretty clean and straightforward
Axios takes it to 2014 for added background
Fox has it own way
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Nov 1, 2019 03:00:09   #
Ranger7374 wrote:
The comment I made was following the precedent that was followed in the impeachment of Johnson, Nixon, and Bill Clinton. Nancy Pelosi and this Congress broke precedent. The House of Representatives as a body has a right to write the rules in which they follow in an impeachment. High crimes and misdemeanors are described by Hamilton in Federalist paper 65/66. If you read the document, Hamilton makes clear that a president is not to be impeached simply because you do not like him. If that was the case then Bush Jr. and Obama would have been impeached, not to mention Ford, Carter, Regan, and Bush Sr. too would have been impeached.

For example is it an impeachable offense to Pardon Richard Nixon? Ford would have been impeached.
Is it an impeachable offense that a failed helicopter rescue of Iran hostages an impeachable offense? Carter would have been impeached.
Is it an impeachable offense to bring us to the brink of war with the USSR? Reagan would have been impeached.
Is the Iran contra affair an impeachable offense? Reagan would have been impeached.
Is the freeing of Kuwait in Desert Storm or the issues of Rodney King impeachable offenses? Bush Sr. would have been impeached.
Is the Enron scandal, September 11th failures, "Weapons of Mass Destruction", impeachable offenses? Then Bush Jr. would have been impeached.
Is trading an american deserter for terrorists an impeachable offense? then Obama would have been impeached.
Is Fast and Furious operations to include the B******i scandal, impeachable offense? Then Obama would have been impeached.

or go back in time further, The involvement in Cambodia, South Korea, and Vietnam impeachable? Then Eisenhower, Kennedy and Johnson would have been impeached.
How about the bay of pigs, and bringing us to the brink of World War III? Then John Kennedy would have been impeached.

Hamilton stated that impeachment should only be reserved to be used for an offense as great as Treason and Bribery. Hamilton recognized that there are other crimes, that can be considered on the same level as Treason and Bribery. Such as using the presidency as your personal military, to injure the citizens of this country. That can be considered treason. Or squandering the treasury fortune to dictate the actions of others, which can be considered bribery. These are examples of crimes, and these are examples of High Crimes and Misdemeanors. All High Crimes and Misdemeanors lead to treason. For example what Johnson did, what Nixon did, leads to Treason. What Bill Clinton did opens him up for treason. Mind you what Clinton did is not treason or bribery but it opens the presidency up to it. In the case of all three presidents that were impeached, all three covered up their crimes, that is obstruction of justice.

In the case with Donald Trump, it is simple that it is not driven by Justice. But being driven by jealousy and lust for power.

What the democrats do here will be used against the next president if it were to come to be. If the Democrats get their way with this impeachment effort, the next democrat president will have to face a House that the majority is republican, will have to face impeachment. If Donald Trump wins his case, then laws to prevent such a measure will be written to limit the power of government in both the House, Senate, and intelligence communities. The President is the one entrusted with the "Sword" of the United States. The people v**ed for Trump so Trump should have the power to do what is necessary. That is his duty. And from what this citizen is seeing as he watches this, that is what he has done. The Democrats, calling for an impeachment inquiry on Halloween is an act, in my opinion, of what the Devil would do to attack Jesus Christ.

This has a political and spiritual element. Let's see what happens? Do you have faith in our system of government? Do you have faith in God? Do you have faith in the American People? Where do your allegiances lie?
The comment I made was following the precedent tha... (show quote)



Yes you are right to a point. The rules that are being followed by the house are written down which the latest version is 2015. These same rules were approved by the same party that changed the rules on subpenoas. To try and get Obama over a barrel. The party were the Republicans the same group who held B******i investigation behind closed doors. This is what;
Representative Gerald Ford declared: "An impeachable offense is wh**ever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history." Now since there is no details in the guidance provided by the statements made in the Constitution about impeachments. That was the whole reason why the Federalist letters were written. Now impeachment is a very strong way of taking care of a troubling repesentive of the government because it can give the parties heart burn down the line. That is why it is stated in the Federalist letters that it can be easily weaponized. On the examples given it could have been used as you suggested. That is the why there is a separation of powers between the branches. The rules are written down on how to advance properly. Committees investigate in the house on the possible charges being brought up then the committee v**es on them and then present to the house who in turn finally decides whether the articles are supported, at which time they are sent to the Senate. Where does my loyalty lie it is with a government I thought was worth 13 years of my life I'm a veteran. I was always taught that God helps those who help themselves and rely on him when the going get to hard for them to handle. At one time I would have given a deafening yes, now when morals have become flexible and ethics are pretty much d**gging it kind of hard for me to see the difference between the American people and any other emeny of this country.

This below came from page 18 of the House Rules document that in 2015 Republicans v**ed a change to subpoena requirements. Please note what is in parentheses. All meetings other than committee on Ethics are to be in the open. Since the impeachment is based on presumed ethical practices the meetings can be held in private. Then the other option for closed meeting is when the infomation that comes out may endanger national security, would compromise sensitive law enforcement information, would tend to defame, degrade, or incriminate any person, or otherwise would violate a law or rule of the House.

Open meetings and hearings
(g)(1) Each meeting for the t***saction of business, including the mark-
up of legislation, by a standing committee or subcommittee thereof (other
than the Committee on Ethics or its subcommittees) shall be open to the
public, including to radio, television, and still photography coverage, except
when the committee or subcommittee, in open session and with a majority
present, determines by record v**e that all or part of the remainder of the
meeting on that day shall be in executive session because disclosure of mat-
ters to be considered would endanger national security, would compromise
sensitive law enforcement information, would tend to defame, degrade, or in-
criminate any person, or otherwise would violate a law or rule of the
House. Persons, other than members of the committee and such noncommittee Members, Delegates, Resident Commis-
sioner, congressional staff, or departmental representatives as the com-
mittee may authorize, may not be present at a business or markup ses-
sion that is held in executive session. This subparagraph does not apply to
open committee hearings, which are governed by clause 4(a)(1) of rule X or
by subparagraph (2). (2)(A) Each hearing conducted by a committee or subcommittee (other than the Committee on Ethics or its
subcommittees) shall be open to the public, including to radio, television,
and still photography coverage, except when the committee or subcommittee, in open session and with a majority present, determines by record v**e that all or part of the remainder of that hearing on that day shall be closed to the public because disclosure sensitive law enforcement information, or would violate a clause
clause 2(k)(5); or
(ii) agree to close the hearing as
provided in clause 2(k)(5).
(C)
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Oct 31, 2019 08:32:08   #
Ranger7374 wrote:
Also by house rules to fit the definition of high crimes and misdemeanors, the subject has to be guilty of an immoral, unethical, illegal act such was the case with Nixon, Johnson and Clinton, it was not all three. Nixon knew it so he resigned and Ford pardoned him. So they couldn't charge tricky Dick.


Which version are you referring to the one I'm reading dosen't mention any definition of high crimes and misdemeanors. Those are past charges on the other impeachment and again due to separation of powers congress can't follow through on criminal cases. This is my read on 65 and 66 since all that was mentioned was that the house is solely responsible for the investigation for impeachment charges. Which no where in constitution does it give a detailed method or guidelines to follow that was what caused the objections written.
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Oct 28, 2019 08:15:50   #
JFlorio wrote:
Yes, I’ve done the same. Thanks. I just don’t believe he did the research. I imagine he read it in an internet piece.


OK, glad to help to use a old trekkie salute live long and prosper.
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Oct 27, 2019 23:59:23   #
JFlorio wrote:
I wasn’t referring to the original text. I was referring to where he got it. I’m sure he didn’t copy and paste the Constitution or the Rules himself.



If I understand your question which ever search engine you use all is needed is to type in the Constitution and the links show up. Here are some of the ones I use;
https://constitutionus.com/
https://www.senate.gov/civics/constitution_item/constitution.htm
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/index.html
https://www.history.com/topics/united-states-constitution/constitution
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Oct 27, 2019 22:13:14   #
JFlorio wrote:
Wonder what far left rag fartnotfact got that cut and paste?


Some came from the Constitution others may have came from one of these two links ,
https://www.crf-usa.org/impeachment/high-crimes-and-misdemeanors.html
Go to https://history.house.gov and search for impeachment you'll get several examples or maybe some that he found.

This below came from page 18 of the House Rules document that in 2015 Republicans v**ed a change to subpoena requirements. Pease note what is in parentheses. All meetings other than committee on Ethics are to be in the open. Since the impeachment is based on presumed unethical practices the meetings can be held in private. Then the other option for closed meeting is when the infomation that comes out may endanger national security, would compromise sensitive law enforcement information, would tend to defame, degrade, or incriminate any person, or otherwise would violate a law or rule of the House.

Open meetings and hearings
(g)(1) Each meeting for the t***saction of business, including the mark-
up of legislation, by a standing committee or subcommittee thereof (other
than the Committee on Ethics or its subcommittees) shall be open to the
public, including to radio, television, and still photography coverage, except
when the committee or subcommittee, in open session and with a majority
present, determines by record v**e that all or part of the remainder of the
meeting on that day shall be in executive session because disclosure of mat-
ters to be considered would endanger national security, would compromise
sensitive law enforcement information, would tend to defame, degrade, or in-
criminate any person, or otherwise would violate a law or rule of the
House. Persons, other than members of the committee and such noncommittee Members, Delegates, Resident Commis-
sioner, congressional staff, or departmental representatives as the com-
mittee may authorize, may not be present at a business or markup ses-
sion that is held in executive session. This subparagraph does not apply to
open committee hearings, which are governed by clause 4(a)(1) of rule X or
by subparagraph (2). (2)(A) Each hearing conducted by a committee or subcommittee (other than the Committee on Ethics or its
subcommittees) shall be open to the public, including to radio, television,
and still photography coverage, except when the committee or subcommittee, in open session and with a majority present, determines by record v**e that all or part of the remainder of that hearing on that day shall be closed to the public because disclosure sensitive law enforcement information, or would violate a clause 2(k)(5); or (ii) agree to close the hearing as provided in clause 2(k)(5). (C)
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Oct 27, 2019 20:45:46   #
eagleye13 wrote:
"This push for impeachment is being decided by one faction of the American community, that community is called the 'far left', the liberals, or the Democrats. As history has shown in the past few years, they will not quit. This is their choice. However, We, the people and citizens of these United States, are watching this soap opera play out. Before you decide whether or not Trump is guilty or innocent remember that the president is still an American Citizen.

Now being an American Citizen first, he enjoys the protections of the Constitution in all cases. Which means he has the following rights:...."

Bravo!!!
The e******ns in 2020 should reflect what the Left is attempting now.
A land slide for Republicans.
"This push for impeachment is being decided b... (show quote)


Criminal I agree but the impreachment is not considered criminal if he is removed from office he doesn't lose any rights or previlges except for one which with his removal from office means he was not fit to serve.
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Oct 26, 2019 19:14:38   #
Ranger7374 wrote:
I am not saying that the impeachments this country has had were unconstitutional. I am not saying that the checks and balances written in the constitution are not constitutional. What I am saying is that there is a process for impeachment. This process must be protected at all costs to ensure the protections of the federal government on the people. What I am saying is that every American is protected from governmental tyranny.

Alexander Hamilton, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and James Madison, all agreed that the only attack on the constitution that will cause it to fall is a faction of men.

Thomas Jefferson started a war against the lobbyists that hovered like bees around the white house when he was president. Jefferson was the third president that these united States had. Jefferson won a brutal fight against John Adams his friend and fellow founder of these United States. But it wasn't until 1787 when the Constitution took effect.

James Madison is considered the father of the Constitution. The Constitution does work, it has brought colonies to a nation, to the most powerful nation on the face of the planet. These geniuses, or as we call them, forefathers of the constitution, bestowed upon us, a system of governmental checks and balances which protects the people, protects the states, protects the federal government. This system is now under attack through this impeachment threat to the democracy.

First we have unhappy people with the 2016 e******n. John McCain once said in 2016, "There has been a long tradition of peaceful t******r of p***r..." Where is that tradition today. Where is the due process here?

If the Democrats used due process, then there would be no argument that the white house could use to stop the process. It would go to the senate, almost automatically. Then it would be up to the Senate to decide the president's fate. That is not what is happening here. Instead through conversations behind closed doors, they have already decided that the president is guilty before trial. Do you know what that is called? Harassment, discrimination, and prejudice. The true definition. Due process is defined in the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 14th, 15th and 16th amendments.

Let's examine the situation for a moment from the president's point of view:

1. He was unjustly investigated through the FBI, State Department, and other agencies under his control. The result of the investigation has proven that there was insufficient evidence to bring charges against the president. Therefore, by policy, the president could not be charged with a crime he did not commit or plainly put, could not be charged with a crime where there was insufficient evidence to prove that a crime was committed. Since there was no crime, what purpose would there be in charging the president with a crime that was unprovable? Since the findings of two FBI investigations, two Congressional investigations, and the Mueller Report, found insufficient evidence, there is no obstruction of justice. For two and a half years, these investigations went on destroying the lives of our fellow Americans, and all they came up with is insufficient evidence, with no presumption of innocence, I would say the man is innocent.

2. The president recommended Bill Barr for attorney general. The Senate held hearings to confirm Barr for the position. During the conversation, Bill Barr suspected that the Trump Campaign was spied upon. This is what sparked the promise by Bill Barr that as attorney general he would look into the investigation and get to the bottom of it. The Senate confirmed Barr as Attorney General of the United States.

3. The president had a conversation with the president of Ukraine. According to the Constitution, the president, like a sheriff can appoint anyone to investigate a criminal case. Also the president can appoint his personal attorney to be involved in the investigation. Look the prosecution had its chance, and they held a two and a half year investigation, beginning with the FBI and reaching into the State Department, and some ambassadors too. So acting as the "Sheriff" as president, he is well within his right to ask the president of Ukraine to look into the origins of the collusion that occured in the 2016 e******n. The focus was not Joe Biden, as it was reported, but rather to investigate what happened in the 2016 e******n. What was found as collateral evidence was the issue with Joe Biden and H****r B***n.

4. [Has anyone ever played Dungeons and D**gons, put out by TSR and now Wizards of the Coast? If you did play the game, there is an issue of Out of Character knowledge which could not be used when playing your character. OCK is very bad and under minds the game. Now, I know Adam Schiff is the chairman of the intel community, but OCK will undermind his judgement. Plus, OCK could also undermine Trump's judgement too.] Looking at the conversation of Donald Trump and the Ukraine President, I have found that many people in the press, news, and even many Democrats including Adam Schiff, and Nancy Pelosi, were inaccurate to what was said.

a. Looking at the transcript which is the official White House Transcript, it appears that the president was looking for information on behalf of his defense attorney, Guilenoni, his Attorney General, William Barr, and Barr's investigator, Duram. He introduced these men to the president of Ukraine and asked the president to look into dealings with the country and put to rest rumors that the previous Vice President brought up, that was reported in the News. Now this is a different take on the transcript, that I gathered from reading the transcript. It is true that this request somewhat confirms the whistleblower complaint. However the motives as described in the transcript and the motives described in the complaint are different. Now, this is where Out of Character knowledge comes into play. (Let's put this on hold for a moment)

5. Nancy Pelosi announces a formal impeachment inquiry that "is fair....". The Constitution already established a fair process when an American citizen is accused in any court within the powers of the federal government. Federalist papers establish the reasons why this process must be followed. Otherwise it can be considered a mistrial. At this point, if Articles of Impeachment are sent to the Senate, the Senate could send the bill back to the House and declare a mistrial. The reason is because the president was denied his constitutional rights within the process.

What I have written above, 1-5 is from the president's point of view. Now, lets look at the other point of view:

1. The investigations showed obstruction of justice.
-A point of fact. If a person is innocent of a charge, the accused actions may be considered an obstruction of justice. Let's say for example, a person accused of murder. After the supposed murder had taken place, the accused sold the murder weapon. Now, in this hypothetical situation, let's assume that you are in the jury. The prosecution says the accused is guilty of obstruction of justice because he sold the murder weapon that the police can't find. The defense argues that the murder weapon sale was because the accused was broke and he needed the money. The sale at the time was legal. But since the sale the weapon was destroyed because the metal was used to make another product. So ballistics was impossible. ---at this point, it looks bad for the accused, because the evidence that was presented seems that way, but then new information comes out, that the accused wasn't even in the country at the time of the murder. So the accused is innocent of the charge of murder, therefore is he still guilty of obstruction? Most would say yes. Then the question becomes, is the actions of the accused, done wittingly or unwittingly. Upon further examination it was found that the sale of the weapon was done unwittingly. For the investigation occured after the weapon was sold. Therefore there was insufficient evidence to bring the charge of murder and obstruction. The Mueller Report defined their decision on obstruction as not enough evidence to charge Trump.

2. Whistleblower report(to be continued.....)
I am not saying that the impeachments this country... (show quote)


I agree with you up a point but you seem to be following the impreachment as a criminal case which it is not it more political. The impreachment is being based on presumed unethical actions.

If the the person who is being charged while on a criminal case the following admendments can they protect the person. As explained by you due process is defined in the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 14th, 15th and 16th amendments. Since impeachment isn't a criminal case because of separation of powers congress can't try a criminal case the admendments don't apply. Due process which does apply is defined in the House Procedures. The house investigates using committees the same way the police investigators look at a case. The investigator looks at what is presented and decides if what is seen is good enough to pass on to the house for a v**e.

4th deals with police officers

5th criminal and civil
The Constitution states only one command twice. The Fifth Amendment says to the federal government that no one shall be "deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law." The Fourteenth Amendment, ratified in 1868, uses the same eleven words, called the Due Process Clause, to describe a legal obligation of all states. These words have as their central promise an assurance that all levels of American government must operate within the law ("legality") and provide fair procedures. Most of this essay concerns that promise. We should briefly note, however, three other uses that these words have had in American constitutional law.

Sixth Amendment guarantees the rights of criminal defendants,

The Fourteenth Amendment addresses many aspects of citizenship and the rights of citizens. The most commonly used -- and frequently litigated -- phrase in the amendment is "equal protection of the laws", maybe in a grey area he is a citizen. We are talking impeachment not criminal.

The 15th deals with the ability to v**e may not be applicable.

The 16th deals with taxes.
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Oct 23, 2019 07:33:59   #
Radiance3 wrote:
================
President Trump will have a landslide victory I can assure that 110%. The people all over the country are all rallying behind president Trump. Except some few handouts and socialist democrats.

But they know who gives them jobs and better future for their children. It is president Trump.


I've mentioned it before once the articles get submitted the damage is done to ether the dems or reps. It all depends on what the public thinks some may not like what was discovered some may ignore the discovery. The opinons are out there and are to many to account for. When you don't account for the reports and just dismiss them because a person doesn't like what is being reported you can wind up with distorted view.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:51:22   #
proud republican wrote:
55% of v**ers are against impeaching Trump. That's bad news for Democrats!!!


Impreachment and removal are different, the impreachment is the inquiry which leads to the articles that the Senate is presented with. Then Senate v**es on removal.

Democrats have long feared that impeachment would alienate moderate v**ers. "This is the reason that it took so long to even start the process."

But in the pivotal states of Pennsylvania, Florida, Michigan, Wisconsin, North Carolina and Arizona, a majority of v**ers support the inquiry. Self-described independents back the inquiry, 51 percent to 43 percent.
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