Yes it is okay. I will now end our conversation because I fear that my words will be offensive. We, Jewish people, are very aware of the harm misplaced words can cause that can not be made right. A Chasidic tale vividly illustrates the danger of improper speech: A man went about the community telling malicious lies about the rabbi. Later, he realized the wrong he had done, and began to feel remorse. He went to the rabbi and begged his forgiveness, saying he would do anything he could to make amends. The rabbi told the man, "Take a feather pillow, cut it open, and scatter the feathers to the winds." The man thought this was a strange request, but it was a simple enough task, and he did it gladly. When he returned to tell the rabbi that he had done it, the rabbi said, "Now, go and gather the feathers. Because you can no more make amends for the damage your words have done than you can recollect the feathers."

The story was lost on you, and perhaps the vast majority of the readers. With that, forgive me for relating the story for no matter how many cautious words I use, you will be offended and want to engage in argument. I respect your belief, you seem to be sincere in your effort to do your best to worship your god.

Yes, there is a deeper meaning and sadly it was lost on not just you.

To respond to your question. There are many places that Jewish people are turned away. I am from the old school, so we dress "funny" we keep to ourselves, we are often spoken of as being "the k**lers of christ." So, what would I think. Nothing. I would just find a different business to patronize. It would not be anything to make a fuss over. You believe according to your needs. I would not want to impose myself or my belief systems on you. Nor would I want to offend you with my presence.

You missed the point of the story I told.

Love is wonderful. Love is great. But love is also an emotion that can not be force, reigned in, decided, or otherwise harvested at our demand. The heart can not decide its emotion, it feels. If you were ever in love, then you would understand that you can not tell your heart who to love. We may want to love this or that, but we do not control that emotion. Love is not logical. It is simply, emotion. One of our greatest needs as human beings is to be loved. We all need love. We need to know that we are important to somebody, that somebody truly cares about us, wants us, and accepts us unconditionally. When we doubt that we are loved, we may develop unacceptable behavior patterns to compensate for it.

I believe that it is correct to say that the universe in comparison to God is like a human thought in comparison to a physical object. God's reality is on a different plane than ours. We are merely imaginary in comparison to Him.

I would also like to point out that obviously God's motives are unfathomable to mere mortals. Asking questions about why God commanded this and not that, created this and not that or why He even created anything at all can not be answered, any more than a flea can attempt to understand the motives of a human.

The importance of this; you nor a written word can not be so bold as pretend you can pigeon hole God and reduce Him to your understanding.

Sorry for the tardiness of this, but I had to read through the entire mess to see your response. It would be helpful if you quoted the other person and then gave comment............makes it easier.

Anyway, you bring up a point. You ask me what your Christ would do. Quite honestly, I do not know what he would have done except advise the person being denied service to go elsewhere. Anyway, that is what a thinking person would do without needing to be told. But, unfortunately we do not live in a world of thinking individuals, we live in a world of self centered whining complaining and those who want to force their ideas and preferences on others.

Now on to the complaint about being able to quote scriptures. The person to whom I was responding said that she/he/it could not find in their Christian bible anyplace that said to avoid homosexuals/sinners. I gave said person examples. If that is a fault, then I am guilty as charged. In a Nation where we are discouraged from following God's laws, I think we should encourage those that can quote scripture. I think we should encourage them to remember and pass that memory on to those that will listen. Because it will be necessary in the New World Order. It will be sooner, rather than later that the Liberal masses will rewrite the bible to fit their views (as has happened with school text books) and they will introduce a "one world religion" where everyone goes to one church. And they will say that it is an EOT religion, not based on race, color, creed and all other religions are in violation of the law. And I can see you now, thinking what an excellent idea; everyone will love one another and be kind and no longer will gays be frowned upon. But, you are forgetting one thing. The reason for a church is not a get together where people sit around and sing kumbaya and hold hands. I could give a flip about the laws of man, I care for the laws of God. You may not even believe in God, but I think that he still believes in us as a race and he is waiting for us to get back to following his laws.

Interesting that you bring up your chriist, but you rarely bring up God. I am Jewish so I hope you will understand that we teach with stories. So, here is one for you. There was a great King, he was good to his people; showered them with love and everything good. Nothing was denied. All his kingdom loved him. He had a son. The son was a good child, but somewhat strong headed. The child was welcomed and everyplace the King went, his son would go along. The child grew and having his father as a teacher, became a fine man. One day the King went into a village with his son. All the people came out, they called the name of the child, they surrounded the child and took him to eat; leaving the King alone standing in the yard. Tell me, what do you think the King felt?

I have given this some thought; according to Greek philosophy there are three virtues. In my religion, there are 7. Indeed love is an important emotion, but one can not truly love without patience, kindness, integrity, and above all humility. We can not control love, we do not select the person we bestow with our love; but we can be patient with everyone, show kindness in our words and deeds, integrity in our daily dealing with others, and always be humble knowing that our greatness is only possible because of God, those that love us, and those we work beside. To admit an error is not a sign of weakness, but rather the strength to realize that we are not perfect.

Thank you! :thumbup: :thumbup:

It seems that we have a WH full of people that refuse to take responsibility for their actions and inactions. I hope that Ms. Clinton hangs up her gloves and retire. Although I would not mind see a woman as president, I sincerely do not think she is the one. Of course I am writing this with some hope left that we will be able to elect a new president.

Regardless if the individual is homosexual, Canadian Constitution is similar to ours. May I direct you to

Section 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms contains guaranteed e******y rights. As part of the Constitution, the section prohibits certain forms of discrimination perpetrated by the governments of Canada with the exception of ameliorative programs (affirmative action) and rights or privileges guaranteed by or under the Constitution of Canada in respect of denominational, separate or dissentient schools (religious education).

Rights under section 15 include racial e******y, sexual e******y, mental disability, and physical disability. In its jurisprudence, it has also been a source of gay rights in Canada. These rights are guaranteed to "Every individual," that is, every natural person. This wording excludes "legal persons" such as corporations, contrasting other sections that use the word "everyone," where "legal persons" were meant to be included. Section 15 has been in force since 1985.


The Canadian Human Rights Act is federal legislation that prohibits discrimination in areas of federal jurisdiction. As Section 2 of the Act states:

The purpose of this Act is to extend the laws in Canada to give effect, within the purview of matters coming within the legislative authority of Parliament, to the principle that all individuals should have an opportunity equal with other individuals to make for themselves the lives that they are able and wish to have and to have their needs accommodated, consistent with their duties and obligations as members of society, without being hindered in or prevented from doing so by discriminatory practices based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, family status, disability or conviction for an offence for which a pardon has been granted.(Department of Justice Canada, Canadian Human Rights Act).

Central to the Act, then, is the principle that all individuals in Canada should have an equal opportunity to make for themselves “the lives they are able and wish to have” and to “have their needs accommodated.” The Act, moreover, is meant to promote this e******y by prohibiting discriminatory practices, based on specific attributes such as race, ethnicity, sex, etc., which may hinder or prevent persons from doing so.

So, are we back to square one? The barber's rights to refuse service weighed against individual rights of antidiscrimination based on sex.

Try this one from the Christian bible:

1 Corinthians 5:9

and here are a few more

1 Corinthians 5:2,7 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that …

Psalm 1:1,2 Blessed is the man that walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, …

Proverbs 9:6 Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

2 Corinthians 6:14,17 Be you not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship …

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but …

2 Thessalonians 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this letter, note that man, and …

With more time, I could probably find more.....now perhaps you will say that homosexual behavior is not sinful. Do you need book and passage on that?

Sorry, if it was wrong for the baker, wrong for AZ....then how can it be right for the barbers? Or are you saying that the barbers were right because they are Muslim? Double standard...... how could one expect anything else, you seem to be the same as Obama. Sometimes it is okay, unless you catch a lie, then it is Bush's fault!

So, decision. No middle of the road. Woman or Barber?

Seems like more than a few of that man's (I wish I could remember where I read it, it was about 15 years ago) fears are being realized. He said that Russia would only sleep for so long and would reclaim all the former countries that broke off. He went on to say that while we (the US) is preoccupied with a crashing economy, that China would start to make its move. That Russia and China would join force, China and Japan would recall their loans made to the US which would finish our economic picture. Making us ripe for invasion. Most people, in particular the Liberals (which my husband was sold on) proclaimed him as a crazy, uninformed, and conspiracy theorist.

May I suggest you read the comments on the 1062 thread. Our Liberal friends raised holy hell that a state would even consider freedom of choice for both parties. So far, not one of them have shown up on this thread.....COWARDS!

WOW, now I have a thought. Years ago, there was someone who said our next threat would come from the Chinese. What if Obama decides to do more than just insult Russia and stick out his tongue, do you think China will join forces with Russia and then decide not to stop?