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Global Warming/Climate Change Again, Again
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May 30, 2015 01:10:59   #
Richard94611
 
They aren't the only ones moving. People in Bangladesh are moving, too. If you think that suddenly every bit of water in the oceans rise the same amount, you are wrong. I read some research a while ago saying that using satellites they had ruled out tectonic shifts as the cause of rising sea levels in Polynesia. Wish I had kept a record of it. I'll hunt and see if I can find it again.

I just did some searching, and the conclusion I come to is now that you are partly correct. Tectonic shifts account for some of the rise in sea level in the Pacific. In other words, the tectonic plates are sinking, but the waters are also rising for reasons that have nothing to do with tectonic shifts. Scientists are still working to sort out the causes of this particular phenomenon in the Pacific.


Homestead wrote:
See the problem you have with that is that the water only rose to that extent on those atolls. Had the water rose world wide to that extent, they wouldn't be the only ones moving.

But, it's not due to tectonic shifts or adjustments in the earth's crust.

Must be an anti-Moses around. Instead of parting seas, he raises them in one place, but, not others.

Reply
May 30, 2015 01:15:46   #
Richard94611
 
Homestead, volcanoes are NOT a major cause of changes in the climate like the ones we are seeing. I must find the section in the course that deals with that falsehood. Volcanoes can cause a temporary shift -- TEMPORARY. They were one of the causes of "The Little Ice Age," a period of colder temperatures in Europe. But their effect only amounts to something about equal to the yearly burning of fossil fuels in Turkey, a rather minor effect, I would say.

Here is the material relating to the effects of volcanoes. As you can see, they are NOT a major cause of climate change/global warming:

But, despite all of the evidence, some people persist in claiming that the recent rise in
carbon dioxide is all natural— for example, they say that instead of it being caused by humans, it all came out of volcanoes.
Now, it is quite true that volcanoes emit some carbon dioxide and that—over very long periods of geological time—those small amounts can add up to make a really significant change to the atmosphere. However, over a couple of hundred years, the emissions aren’t large enough to make a difference.

There are two main classes of volcano: there are the ones that erupt under the ocean and the ones that erupt into the air. Both kinds are linked to the goings-on at the boundaries of the tectonic plates and to the upwelling of hot rock from the Earth’s mantle-- the layer below the crust. The undersea volcanoes are by far the more numerous, making up about 90% of the world’s volcanoes, although few of us have ever seen them. These volcanic chains are where new ocean crust is produced. But undersea volcanoes don’t produce very much carbon dioxide—only about 100 million tonnes per year—about the same amount as an average US state emits. Humans produce about 350 times as much carbon dioxide as the undersea volcanoes do. Carbon dioxide not only gets produced at the ocean ridges; it also gets consumed there. What happens is that the newly formed basaltic rock undergoes chemical changes when it contacts seawater. This reaction absorbs carbon dioxide from the water at a rate of about 150 million tonnes per year. The mid-ocean ridge volcanic processes as a whole, therefore, probably consume more carbon dioxide than they emit. We are much more familiar with the kind of volcanoes that erupt into the air. The biggest chain of these is the famous “Pacific Ring of Fire”. This is a belt running all the way around the ocean from New Zealand to Japan, then to Alaska and down to the Andes. Old oceanic crust is consumed at these places and they form volcanoes that produce much more carbon dioxide than the ones under the sea. The magma in these volcanoes comes not just from the Earth’s mantle, but also from the melting of the more carbon- and water-rich rocks in the crust. One reason these types of volcano tend to be more explosive is because of the larger amount of water vapour and carbon
dioxide in their magma. Mount Etna in Sicily is one of the most prolific carbon-dioxide producing volcanoes in the world. It produces about 13 million tonnes per year, but this amount is still only about half as much as what Sicily’s five million people emit from burning fossil fuels.
Dormant volcanoes and volcanic lakes together emit as much carbon dioxide as the actively erupting volcanoes do. Altogether, volcanoes that emit carbon dioxide into the air produce much more than undersea
volcanoes: about five times as much.

Volcanic rocks on the surface undergo weathering and this chemical process absorbs carbon dioxide out of the air—about 180 million tonnes per year—that’s approximately one-third of the amount put into the air by volcanoes. If we add up all the sources of volcanic carbon dioxide, we get 640 million tonnes per year. Once we subtract the carbon dioxide that the reactions with volcanic rocks consume, we are left with a net 310 million tonnes per year. This last amount is roughly equal to the human emissions from the country of Turkey, that’s less than one percent of all human emissions. Human emissions for the planet as a whole in 2012 were 60 to 120 times bigger than volcanic emissions. Carbon dioxide emissions from cement-making alone are 3 to 6 times bigger than those from volcanoes.



Homestead wrote:
First off, volcanoes are a major cause of changes in climate, their dust shows up in the ice core samples from glaciers. They produce more co2 than man ever has.

Second, your still trying to ignore the correlation between Sun Spot activity and temperature change which is also recorded in the ice core samples.

The temper of the atmosphere is recorded by the isotopes formed in the snow and snow traps air bubbles as it stacks up, so the actual make up of the atmosphere at the time the snow was laid down is also known.

We are not buying the agenda.
First off, volcanoes are a major cause of changes ... (show quote)

Reply
May 30, 2015 03:51:19   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Remove the "s" from http and the link goes hot.


Thanks for the tutorial, someday I'll catch up to the computer savy of today's 9 year old. :thumbup:

Reply
 
 
May 30, 2015 03:55:38   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Richard94611 wrote:
Homestead, volcanoes are NOT a major cause of changes in the climate like the ones we are seeing. I must find the section in the course that deals with that falsehood. Volcanoes can cause a temporary shift -- TEMPORARY. They were one of the causes of "The Little Ice Age," a period of colder temperatures in Europe. But their effect only amounts to something about equal to the yearly burning of fossil fuels in Turkey, a rather minor effect, I would say.

Here is the material relating to the effects of volcanoes. As you can see, they are NOT a major cause of climate change/global warming:

But, despite all of the evidence, some people persist in claiming that the recent rise in
carbon dioxide is all natural— for example, they say that instead of it being caused by humans, it all came out of volcanoes.
Now, it is quite true that volcanoes emit some carbon dioxide and that—over very long periods of geological time—those small amounts can add up to make a really significant change to the atmosphere. However, over a couple of hundred years, the emissions aren’t large enough to make a difference.

There are two main classes of volcano: there are the ones that erupt under the ocean and the ones that erupt into the air. Both kinds are linked to the goings-on at the boundaries of the tectonic plates and to the upwelling of hot rock from the Earth’s mantle-- the layer below the crust. The undersea volcanoes are by far the more numerous, making up about 90% of the world’s volcanoes, although few of us have ever seen them. These volcanic chains are where new ocean crust is produced. But undersea volcanoes don’t produce very much carbon dioxide—only about 100 million tonnes per year—about the same amount as an average US state emits. Humans produce about 350 times as much carbon dioxide as the undersea volcanoes do. Carbon dioxide not only gets produced at the ocean ridges; it also gets consumed there. What happens is that the newly formed basaltic rock undergoes chemical changes when it contacts seawater. This reaction absorbs carbon dioxide from the water at a rate of about 150 million tonnes per year. The mid-ocean ridge volcanic processes as a whole, therefore, probably consume more carbon dioxide than they emit. We are much more familiar with the kind of volcanoes that erupt into the air. The biggest chain of these is the famous “Pacific Ring of Fire”. This is a belt running all the way around the ocean from New Zealand to Japan, then to Alaska and down to the Andes. Old oceanic crust is consumed at these places and they form volcanoes that produce much more carbon dioxide than the ones under the sea. The magma in these volcanoes comes not just from the Earth’s mantle, but also from the melting of the more carbon- and water-rich rocks in the crust. One reason these types of volcano tend to be more explosive is because of the larger amount of water vapour and carbon
dioxide in their magma. Mount Etna in Sicily is one of the most prolific carbon-dioxide producing volcanoes in the world. It produces about 13 million tonnes per year, but this amount is still only about half as much as what Sicily’s five million people emit from burning fossil fuels.
Dormant volcanoes and volcanic lakes together emit as much carbon dioxide as the actively erupting volcanoes do. Altogether, volcanoes that emit carbon dioxide into the air produce much more than undersea
volcanoes: about five times as much.

Volcanic rocks on the surface undergo weathering and this chemical process absorbs carbon dioxide out of the air—about 180 million tonnes per year—that’s approximately one-third of the amount put into the air by volcanoes. If we add up all the sources of volcanic carbon dioxide, we get 640 million tonnes per year. Once we subtract the carbon dioxide that the reactions with volcanic rocks consume, we are left with a net 310 million tonnes per year. This last amount is roughly equal to the human emissions from the country of Turkey, that’s less than one percent of all human emissions. Human emissions for the planet as a whole in 2012 were 60 to 120 times bigger than volcanic emissions. Carbon dioxide emissions from cement-making alone are 3 to 6 times bigger than those from volcanoes.
Homestead, volcanoes are NOT a major cause of chan... (show quote)



Update on volcanoes....until 20 years ago only a couple volcanoes were blowing their tops each year, today and every day there are not less than 3-5 EACH DAY. Volcanoes are playing a significant roll in global weather.

Reply
May 30, 2015 08:00:27   #
Richard94611
 
I don't believe what you have written, and I would like a source for your statement. Since what I posted about volcanoes and global warming yesterday is VERY recent. what you are claiming would have been mentioned. But it wasn't.


jack sequim wa wrote:
Update on volcanoes....until 20 years ago only a couple volcanoes were blowing their tops each year, today and every day there are not less than 3-5 EACH DAY. Volcanoes are playing a significant roll in global weather.

Reply
May 30, 2015 12:20:36   #
peter11937 Loc: NYS
 
Homestead wrote:
I forget which link has it, but, one of the videos below mentions that some islands have suffered a permanent rise in tide and mentions that the global warmest point to it as proof that the oceans are rising.

It also points out that the rise has only effected those islands and none of the mainlands. So how do you get global warming, that globally raises the sea level, but, only effects certain areas and nowhere else?

On the other hand, if the earth's crust adjusted itself downward somewhat in one area and not others, that would explain it.
___________________________________________________________

The great global warming swindle - Full version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELfQ7FI6Zoc

The Great Global Warming Swindle - Full Movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-m09lKtYT4

GLOBAL WARMING IS A HOAX
Lenar Whitney
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BzItCPk5j4#t=254

Dr Don Easterbrook Exposes Climate Change Hoax
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LkMweOVOOI#t=40

How the Global Warming Scare Began
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyUDGfCNC-k#t=45

Antarctic ice shelf melt 'lowest EVER recorded, global warming is NOT eroding it'
http://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-40661-5.html#994184
I forget which link has it, but, one of the videos... (show quote)


The warmists live in a fantasy world. NO amount of empirical evidence has any meaning to them. There is nothing you can do or say or demonstrate that will change them, fingers in their ears, eyes closed and chanting silliness too.

Reply
May 30, 2015 13:15:24   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Richard94611 wrote:
Yes, there must be a conspiracy among thousands of scientists who are working in the field of climate science and global warming, on the atmosphere and the oceans, on carbon accumulation, on the chemical analysis of various markers left by global warming. These thousands of scientists must all be part of a giant conspiracy -- BladeRunner called it something like the greatest conspiracy known to mankind --

Not likely.

However, we do know that companies including Exxon-Mobil have been paying people to cause intellectual confusion over the idea that global warming/climate change are happening and that there are things we can do to slow it down and ameliorate it.

It is a replay of the American Tobacco Institute's way of dealing with the threat of legislation regulating tobacco and cigarettes when they paid people to cause confusion over the issue of smoking and cancer. And you folks have fallen for it. The worst part is not that you disagree, but that you refuse to examine the evidence that has accumulated, such as what is included in the course I started this thread by mentioning.

I am not Catholic and I don't believe in the hocus-pocus of churches, but the Pope will shortly take one action that will be a giant step in convincing the world to work hard at slowing down and ameliorating the present situation. Then all you denial insulters will be in even a much tinier minority than you already are in.
Yes, there must be a conspiracy among thousands of... (show quote)



Perhaps you can explain why NOAA is just now coming clean and admitting flawed science and numbers? Publicly stating climate effects are not man induced.
Our economy is based on a perpetrated fraud, with a great deal more "conspiracy" numbers of people involved lying to the American people than "global" and over decades. Yet the American people continue to believe what the government and experts, news and Media at large have and are telling them. A lie to meet an agenda, and now global warming by man, another layer of lies.
Think for yourself man, and the Pope is the lying of liars based on his actions and words contrary to the bible, commited on a regular. Prime example is his stand with Palestinians, diametrically opposed to the bible, and dozens upon dozens of others, now man made warming gaining greater political power among the nations.
Think for yourself man...

Reply
 
 
May 30, 2015 13:36:34   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Richard94611 wrote:
I don't believe what you have written, and I would like a source for your statement. Since what I posted about volcanoes and global warming yesterday is VERY recent. what you are claiming would have been mentioned. But it wasn't.


First the earth has gone from 1910-1920 only a few earthquakes less than ten, to over 1800 in 2014 of 6.0 or above. 90% of the increased activity is in the last 7 years, hand in hand with volcanoes. Yet somehow there are those that claim we are only reporting more volcanoes, instead of there being more, in the face of facts and reporting technology that has been effective the last 30 +years.

http://www.thebigwobble.org/2014/12/earthquakes-in-diverse-places-truly.html?m=1

https://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2013/11/02/doomsday-volcanoes-on-the-planet-are-awakening-in-record-numbers-is-a-new-supervolcano-forming-in-chile/

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hawaii-worlds-biggest-active-volcano-mauna-loa-waking-1453000

http://www.activistpost.com/2013/11/why-have-10-major-volcanoes-along-ring.html?m=1

http://www.silverdoctors.com/the-number-of-volcanoes-erupting-right-now-is-greater-than-the-20th-centurys-yearly-average/

http://www.infowars.com/the-number-of-volcanic-eruptions-is-increasing-and-that-could-lead-to-an-extremely-cold-winter/

Reply
May 30, 2015 13:37:08   #
jeff smith
 
Richard94611 wrote:
There is a fascinating course about the reasons people deny that global warming/climate change is happening or that these are man-made. I have been participating in discussions of these subjects in depth for months, as Blade Runner and a few others will tell you. What I have been trying to understand how folks many of whom are intelligent can deny the existence of these things or that they are man-made. Find this information at

http://www.edx.org/course/making-sense-climate-science-denial-uqx-denial101x

If you are open to learning the evidence that these things are real and in learning how and why some people (fortunately a minority) don't believe they are real or man-made, then tou would find the intellectual effort of taking this course (it is free) worthwhile. However, if you want to engage in motivation thinking and ignore facts, don't bother.
There is a fascinating course about the reasons pe... (show quote)

I wont read your post. there are just as many scientist who deny what you have to say about global warming. the world goes through many different changes , the earth is a living intity all on it's own. I think it is nothing but a scame. just a way to allow the government to create a new tax to steal more money out of our pockets to give out to who ever so the rich can be richer and the workers can become poorer.

Reply
May 30, 2015 13:39:04   #
peter11937 Loc: NYS
 
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

Well, there's this. A longer but very clear study by a qualified person.

and this http://www.iloveco2.com/p/about-co2.html

Reply
May 30, 2015 13:42:11   #
Howard90 Loc: Houston, TX
 
Maurice Strong was a Calgarian. He worked for Dome Petroleum as a PR man basically. He knows less about science than Al Gore, if that is possible.

I am amazed at the climate activists who have stopped using "GLOBAL WARMING" and substituted CLIMATE CHANGE. Ridiculous - climate change is continually occurring and has been since the planet came into existence.

The newest claim - the floods in Texas and Oklahoma will bring on global warming. I wonder if they think the immense snowfalls in the northeast this past winter and spring will bring on global cooling.

The warming crowd do not understand that weather is not climate. Climate is the average weather over many years.

Reply
 
 
May 30, 2015 13:42:20   #
CarolSeer2016
 
Richard94611 wrote:
There is a fascinating course about the reasons people deny that global warming/climate change is happening or that these are man-made. I have been participating in discussions of these subjects in depth for months, as Blade Runner and a few others will tell you. What I have been trying to understand how folks many of whom are intelligent can deny the existence of these things or that they are man-made. Find this information at

http://www.edx.org/course/making-sense-climate-science-denial-uqx-denial101x

If you are open to learning the evidence that these things are real and in learning how and why some people (fortunately a minority) don't believe they are real or man-made, then tou would find the intellectual effort of taking this course (it is free) worthwhile. However, if you want to engage in motivation thinking and ignore facts, don't bother.
There is a fascinating course about the reasons pe... (show quote)


I myself am absolutely fascinated with the psychopathy showing through the anthropogenic climate change hawkers!!

Reply
May 30, 2015 13:52:54   #
Howard90 Loc: Houston, TX
 
Richard - is the usual environmental/climate activist. I doubt if he can tell us how the CO2 he is so worried about can be measured from volcanoes, from magma in the deep ocean. The little Ice Age resulted from volcanic eruptions? New theory!
As a practicing geologist with over 60 years in the field. Richard you are full of BS. Sounds like you may have co-authored a book with Gore.

Reply
May 30, 2015 14:02:40   #
Howard90 Loc: Houston, TX
 
Climate change is real. Man contributes a tiny tiny bit. Most is beginning to show due to overpopulation. CO2 is a minor GHG. It triggers nothing. Try burning wood or coal in dense population cities in Mexico, Brazil, China, India and on and on. Does this give off a lot of CO2. Forget it, Richard, CO2 remains a minor constituent of the atmosphere. CO2 is life for the planet.

Reply
May 30, 2015 14:06:29   #
Howard90 Loc: Houston, TX
 
Richard - I will not waste anymore time replying to you - I am only confusing you with facts. I cannot get through to you - your mind is already made up.

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