robert66 wrote:
I am not only referencing Christianity but other religions as well. I've seen many depictions of angels flying around in Christian publications.
You have an eclectic view of religion, lumping the faithful right in with the unfaithful, possibly because they share the same building, and attend the same services of worship.
That is why God reserves judgment to Himself. He know we cannot discern the Spiritual aspect of Humanity, but are confined to what we see in the flesh.
Your observations are generic, not specific. and that is why so much ire is raised in the community of believers. They cannot abide being "lumped in with the unbelieving" examples of Christianity. They mostly have worked too hard and given up too much to appreciate the casual assessment made by others with whom they have nothing in common.
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Some interpret occurences in end times as people rise to the heavens.
That is due to the scripture that says they will be "caught up in the air and be forever with the Lord."
How would YOU interpret it? Or would you not interpret it, but just "evaluate it" and call it unbelievable?
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Just as you specifically may have your own ideas as presented at your place of worship so do others at theirs. I've been to many different churches and nearly all have their own unique slant.
We share experiences in common, in that regard. I called it "search for truth." You never know what some believe till you give them an opportunity to express it.
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Try Latter Day Saints. They believe the crazy stuff about planets and buried golden tablets. You may say they are wrong but why would they be wrong and you are right?
Because the prophets covered those who would believe an angel that speaks contrary to what God has already said to Men. It is a lesson that all men who read the bible should have taken to heart. THIS is why it is wrong for Christians to say "We have the New Testament, not the Old; it was done away." Truth is, we are told to examine the scriptures" because without a working knowledge of the old testament, no one can know the new. And I am not speaking of memorizing scripture. Anyone can do that if they have the mind for it. (I do not) But to see the connections between the lessons of the old, to save us from those same errors in the new, shows how caring and careful God was on our behalf.
1 Kings 13:1 And, behold, there came a man of God out of Judah by the word of the LORD unto Bethel: and Jeroboam stood by the altar to burn incense.
2 And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee.
3 And he gave a sign the same day, saying, This is the sign which the LORD hath spoken; Behold, the altar shall be rent, and the ashes that are upon it shall be poured out.
4 And it came to pass, when king Jeroboam heard the saying of the man of God, which had cried against the altar in Bethel, that he put forth his hand from the altar, saying, Lay hold on him. And his hand, which he put forth against him, dried up, so that he could not pull it in again to him.
5 The altar also was rent, and the ashes poured out from the altar, according to the sign which the man of God had given by the word of the LORD.
6 And the king answered and said unto the man of God, Intreat now the face of the LORD thy God, and pray for me, that my hand may be restored me again. And the man of God besought the LORD, and the king's hand was restored him again, and became as it was before.
7 And the king said unto the man of God, Come home with me, and refresh thyself, and I will give thee a reward.
8 And the man of God said unto the king, If thou wilt give me half thine house, I will not go in with thee, neither will I eat bread nor drink water in this place:
9 For so was it charged me by the word of the LORD, saying, Eat no bread, nor drink water, nor turn again by the same way that thou camest.
10 So he went another way, and returned not by the way that he came to Bethel.
11 Now there dwelt an old prophet in Bethel; and his sons came and told him all the works that the man of God had done that day in Bethel: the words which he had spoken unto the king, them they told also to their father.
12 And their father said unto them, What way went he? For his sons had seen what way the man of God went, which came from Judah.
13 And he said unto his sons, Saddle me the ass. So they saddled him the ass: and he rode thereon,
14 And went after the man of God, and found him sitting under an oak: and he said unto him, Art thou the man of God that camest from Judah? And he said, I am.
15 Then he said unto him, Come home with me, and eat bread.
16 And he said, I may not return with thee, nor go in with thee: neither will I eat bread nor drink water with thee in this place:
17 For it was said to me by the word of the LORD, Thou shalt eat no bread nor drink water there, nor turn again to go by the way that thou camest.
18 He said unto him, I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spake unto me by the word of the LORD, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water. But he lied unto him.
19 So he went back with him, and did eat bread in his house, and drank water.
20 And it came to pass, as they sat at the table, that the word of the LORD came unto the prophet that brought him back:
21 And he cried unto the man of God that came from Judah, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the LORD, and hast not kept the commandment which the LORD thy God commanded thee,
22 But camest back, and hast eaten bread and drunk water in the place, of the which the LORD did say to thee, Eat no bread, and drink no water; thy carcase shall not come unto the sepulchre of thy fathers.
23 And it came to pass, after he had eaten bread, and after he had drunk, that he saddled for him the ass, to wit, for the prophet whom he had brought back.
24 And when he was gone, a lion met him by the way, and slew him: and his carcase was cast in the way, and the ass stood by it, the lion also stood by the carcase.
25 And, behold, men passed by, and saw the carcase cast in the way, and the lion standing by the carcase: and they came and told it in the city where the old prophet dwelt.
26 And when the prophet that brought him back from the way heard thereof, he said, It is the man of God, who was disobedient unto the word of the LORD: therefore the LORD hath delivered him unto the lion, which hath torn him, and slain him, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake unto him.
27 And he spake to his sons, saying, Saddle me the ass. And they saddled him.
28 And he went and found his carcase cast in the way, and the ass and the lion standing by the carcase: the lion had not eaten the carcase, nor torn the ass.
29 And the prophet took up the carcase of the man of God, and laid it upon the ass, and brought it back: and the old prophet came to the city, to mourn and to bury him.
30 And he laid his carcase in his own grave; and they mourned over him, saying, Alas, my brother!
31 And it came to pass, after he had buried him, that he spake to his sons, saying, When I am dead, then bury me in the sepulchre wherein the man of God is buried; lay my bones beside his bones:
32 For the saying which he cried by the word of the LORD against the altar in Bethel, and against all the houses of the high places which are in the cities of Samaria, shall surely come to pass."[I Kings 13:1-32]
THOUGH WE OR AN ANGEL
"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man."[Gal 1:8-11]
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For that matter why be monotheistic when you could practice a religion with multiple gods? Why are they wrong or is there a way they coexist within your beliefs?
Because those "Scholars" I mentioned earlier, ignore the rules of grammar to promote a doctrine made up out of words not found in scripture, like "Theos ho huios" (God the son) and "Trinity" and developed creeds and doctrines, like "Athanasian Creed" and Trinity Doctrine.
Example:
Scholars: Trinity Doctrine says God is three persons in one being. Then they say "scripture does not define "being." So they feel authorized to define it by doctrine.
Theo:
Gen 17:1
"And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, εγω ειμι ο Θεος walk before me, and be thou perfect." [εγω ειμι ο Θεος = egw eimi o` qeo,j] (I AM THE GOD)
I = εγω
AM = ειμι
THE = ο
GOD = Θεος
εγω (egw) = first-person-singular pronoun = "I"
ειμι (eimi) = first-person-singular present active verb = "AM"
ο (o') = singular definite article = "The"
Θεος (Theos) = Nominative masculine singular noun = "God"
"εγω" leaves no room for 'We." "Egw" allows no room for "US." "Egw" is a reference to a first-person-singular "I."
"ειμι" leaves no room for "Are," but is a reference to "AM."
"ο" leaves no room for "some" but is a reference to "The" one and only. It is a singular definite article.
"Θεος" leaves no room for "Theoi;" You cannot stuff "plural persons" into a singular-person reference.
God introduced Himself to Abraham as a 1st-person-singular God. That takes care of the doctrine that he is a plurality of persons, because "person singular" tells us how many persons are being considered;i.e.,one. That is the meaning of "singular" person.
Exo 3:13-14
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, (1)Egw Eimi 'O wn: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,(2) 'O wn hath sent me unto you.(1)(pronounced ego hymi ho hone)(2)(pronounced ho hone)
ων "egw" = first-person-singular pronoun = "I"
ειμι "eimi" = first-person-singular present active verb = "am"
ο "'o" = singular definite article = "the"
ων"wn" = Singular participle = "Being"
ων "Egw" leaves no room for 'We."
ων "Egw" allows no room for "US."
ων "Egw" is a reference to a first-person-singular "I."
ειμι "Eimi" leaves no room for "Are," but is a reference to "AM."
ο "Ho" leaves no room for "some" but is a reference to "The" one and only. It is a singular definite article.
ων "Wn" leaves no room for beings, it is a reference to "The Being." It is singular as to number of persons considered.
"Singular" participle means there is only one person in "The Being."
If in fact the new testament "reveals" that God is triune, then we will never expect to see the same repetition in the New testament as was seen in Gen 17:1; Exo 3:13-14; and Deut 4:35. so, let's take a little walk through the scriptures and see what we shall see -
O o o h h h! This looks familiar - Let's see if it matches Old Testament grammar!!!
εγω ειμι ο Θεος [Gen 17:1]
εγω ειμι ο Θεος [Mat 22:32]
εγω ειμι ο Θεος
I am the God [Mat 22:32]
εγω (egw) = first-person-singular pronoun = "I"
ειμι (eimi) = first-person-singular present active verb = "AM"
ο (o') = singular definite article = "The"
Θεος (Theos) = Nominative masculine singular noun = "God"
So let's see if God repeats this grammar anywhere else in the New Testament
Genesis 35:11 And God said unto him, εγω ο Θεος (I am God)
Then, we examine the New Testament for similarity of "cult doctrine"
εγω ο Θεος [Gen 35:11]
εγω ο Θεος [Mark 12:26]
εγω ο Θεος [Acts 7:32]
Why did God say in Mat 22:32 εγω ειμι ο Θεος
I am the God εγω (egw) = first-person-singular pronoun = "I"
ειμι (eimi) = first-person-singular present active verb = "AM"
ο (o') = singular definite article = "The"
Θεος (Theos) = Nominative masculine singular noun = "God"
As For "Father, son, Holy Spirit" comprising triune Godhead - The reality is, God revealed that the Father sends HIS Spirit to accomplish things, or to encourage people.
[God the Father put "HIS HOLY SPIRIT" within Moses]
"Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is He that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock?
where is He that put His holy Spirit within him?" 12 That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?13 That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble? 14 As a beast goeth down into the valley,
The Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name. 15 Look down from heaven, and behold from the habitation of thy holiness and of thy glory: where is thy zeal and thy strength, the sounding of thy bowels and of thy mercies toward me? are they restrained? 16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not:
Thou, JEHOVAH, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting."[Isa 63:11-16]Let's examine a little further and see if this is a third-person-of-a-trinity Holy Spirit - or if we have scripture that tells us God gave us HIS Holy Spirit.
1 Thes 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his Holy Spirit.
1 John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because He hath given us of His Spirit.
There is no verse that teaches Jesus is God and there is no verse that teaches the Holy spirit is a third-person-of-a-trinity "God The Holy spirit."
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Muslims believe much of the same stuff as Christians. Are they wrong or right?
Utilizing similar rhetoric is not the same as believing "much of the same stuff." Christians and Hebrews worship Jehovah God, the God of ancient Hebrew nation. Muslims worship the moon; as portrayed in their crescent and moon atop every mosque worldwide. They call it "Allah" which while the word is found in the Hebrew old testament, it is not a reference to the God of Islam.
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Will they go to hell and you to heaven?
Assigning people who do not say it like I say it and think it like I think it, is not mine to do. I will leave all jugment to God. If the judgment were to be left in my hands, 1st), I am disqualified by reason of ignorance; Because I cannot read hearts, I can only read results, sometimes not under the control of the subject under consideration; 2nd I am disqualified by reason of self-preservation; That would tend to allow me to be my own standard, which is grossly unfair to all who think differently than do I; and 3rd I am disqualified because I am not God; and not necessarily in that order.
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Their God is the same as yours yet they get a different message.
(Covered above)
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Every one of the religions think they are right so if God is so great why does he allow this? Is it the free will excuse ?
No. It is not the free will excuse. It is the free will fact. The Apostles preached the gospel to the whole world of their day. Missionaries did pretty much the same in today's societies worldwide. And everyone is God's to judge, not Man's.