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Mar 26, 2015 06:39:00   #
Richard94611
 
Wow ! And I must be imagining things because my health care premium went from about $98.00 to about $76.00/month ! Jack, there's a communist under your bed. Watch out !


jack sequim wa wrote:
Get off your Marxist propaganda machine, step into reality! !!
ObamaCare has delivered another sucker punch to the middle class. This time it’s sticker shock.

Now that most people can get past the tech problems of HealthCare.gov and actually see the real cost of insurance plans available, they are finding that Affordable Care is a big hit to the family budget. And when the family budget gets hit in the solar plexus, guess what happens to consumer spending and the economy?

In California, policies for about 900,000 Californians are being canceled because of ObamaCare’s mandates, and about two-thirds of these do not qualify for subsidies, according to The Chicago Tribune. The result: These folks will be paying higher premiums.

In Alabama, premiums have doubled for some middle-class families, like that of Courtney Long, a stay-at-home mother of four. She told WHNT News, “It’s devastating. I started crying
Get off your Marxist propaganda machine, step int... (show quote)

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Mar 26, 2015 06:40:40   #
Richard94611
 
So how come there are something like 13 million more people with access to health care now with ObamaCare than there were before ObamaCare began ?


jack sequim wa wrote:
We already have medicare for the poor and low income before medicare, so that doesn't fly or reason for Obamacare. One of the great lies for the uninformed.

Reply
Mar 26, 2015 07:16:58   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 


He is totally fooled, unawares that this IS marxist propaganda [lies] being regurgitated by their bought and paid for media. 90 % of media owned by 6 mega corporations.

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Mar 26, 2015 07:18:57   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Richard94611 wrote:
So how come there are something like 13 million more people with access to health care now with ObamaCare than there were before ObamaCare began ?


Dude...your buying into lies,

http://m.weeklystandard.com/articles/hell-story-more-obamacare-lies_819696.html

Reply
Mar 26, 2015 07:50:40   #
Bruce Kennedy Loc: Kansas
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
You are aware communist in your party are dominating policy.
YOU SAID SAVINGS

May 30, 2014

The Hidden Cost Chickens in Obamacare Coming Home to Roost

By Brian C Joondeph

Labor unions have been reliable supporters of President Obama and his policies. Their support for Obamacare was critical to its passage in 2010. Yet they are continuing to learn that their members will be paying more for their healthcare, not less.

One of the selling points of Obamacare was the lowering of health insurance costs. Nancy Pelosi promised, “Everybody will have lower rates.” President Obama was more specific, telling us that his signature program would “Bring down premiums by $2,500 for the typical family.” A year later, however, Mrs. Pelosi, in the face of rising premiums for many, forgot her promise of the previous year, "I don't remember saying that everybody in the country would have a lower premium."

Mrs. Pelosi’s sudden bout of amnesia isn’t surprising. Health insurance premiums rose up to 56 percent under Obamacare and some of her constituents in California are paying over $2600 per month in premiums. But that isn’t the worst of it.

Premiums are just the opening salvo for consumers paying for health care. Paying the premium means you have insurance, but that doesn’t mean you can leave your wallet home when visiting the doctor or hospital.

It’s the hidden costs that will thin your wallet. Copays, deductibles, and coinsurance to be specific. Insurance behemoth Cigna reassures us that these added costs, “All work together to help reduce your medical expenses and protect your finances.” Really?

The copayment is a fixed amount, typically between $20-40, that you pay each time you access the healthcare system – physician visit, x-ray, laboratory, or hospital.

Coinsurance can take a bigger bite out of your wallet. It’s not a fixed cost, but instead a percentage of your bill. Once you meet your deductible (the third hidden cost), you may still have to pay anywhere from 10 to 30 percent of your medical bill based on your policy coinsurance percentage.

The largest hit on your wallet, however, is the deductible. It’s this amount that you pay in full before insurance pays anything. Family deductibles range from $6000 to $10,000 for the most popular silver and bronze Obamacare plans. Until meeting the deductible, you might as well be uninsured, paying cash for your medical care.

It’s not just the Obamacare exchange plans with high deductibles. In 2013, 17 percent of employers are providing high deductible plans as the only option for employees. This is a 31 percent increase from the previous year, and a trend that will likely continue.

United Healthcare believes a high deductible plan is, “A more economical way to help protect your health.” Economical for whom? It certainly is for United but how about for the family suddenly on the hook for ten grand after a family member needs surgery or a few days in the hospital?

Some policies have an out-of-pocket maximum, limiting the cash hemorrhage. But read the fine print. The maximum may not include prescription drug costs or may only include prescription drugs. Copays may still be in effect even above and beyond the out-of-pocket maximum.

Here’s a novel idea to take the bite out of the high deductible. Let individuals or families prepay their deductible with a prepayment discount. Let’s say I have a $6000 deductible for my family insurance plan. Let me pay $5000 on January 1 and for the year my deductible is met. I save $1000 by accepting the gamble that my healthcare costs will exceed my deductible amount for the year. If my costs are lower, I lose the bet. But the insurance company gets cash up front, and unless I get sick on January 2, will have the use of that money until I spend up to my deductible.

Most states offer prepaid college tuition plans under the same concept. Pay in advance to secure a lower tuition bill, but with the risk of losing the prepayment if your kid ends up not going to college or going out of state.

The bottom line is that the insurance hidden costs, while euphemistically described as cost sharing, serve only as a subtle way to ration care. Faced with a high deductible, many will forgo seeking medical care hoping their problem goes away. If it doesn’t, then the only option is a trip to the emergency room, where by law, care must be provided for any "emergency medical condition." And what a surprise, emergency room visits are increasing since Obamacare took effect.

Just as increasing income tax rates drives taxpayers toward loopholes, placing excessive cost burdens on the patient will incentivize poor decisions which ultimately increase costs for everyone.

Dr. Joondeph is a retina surgeon at Colorado Retin



Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2014/05/the_hidden_cost_chickens_in_obamacare_coming_home_to_roost.html#ixzz3VTDSddAt 
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook
You are aware communist in your party are dominati... (show quote)


In an article published by Brian C. Joondeph, in more than one publication, Mr. Joondeph says..."Nancy Pelosi promised, “Everybody will have lower rates.”. When I researched this quote it was easy to find...

www.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DQqONZAN_Us0&ei=ic8TVfuVCMXZoASnkoLoDQ&usg=AFQjCNGsWNnmqaLxZlum3vlt0X2Y99zq0w&sig2=0LYqHBuIndccDyvHpulE6A" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCcQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DQqONZAN_Us0&ei=ic8TVfuVCMXZoASnkoLoDQ&usg=AFQjCNGsWNnmqaLxZlum3vlt0X2Y99zq0w&sig2=0LYqHBuIndccDyvHpulE6A

But Mr. Joondeph goes on to say..." A year later, however, Mrs. Pelosi, in the face of rising premiums for many, forgot her promise of the previous year, "I don't remember saying that everybody in the country would have a lower premium.". Now this quote is harder to find. I find it odd that there are no sources given for the second quote. And until someone gives me the newspaper article, radio interview or television interview that specifically has Ms. Pelosi responding to a question and saying..."I don't remember saying that everybody in the country would have a lower premium.", I will continue to believe Mr. Joondeph simply fabricated that quote, to support his article.

Mr. Joondeph devotes a good portion of his article implying that coinsurance, copays and deductibles are "hidden costs". They are not hidden costs, never have been. What is hidden is how coinsurance and copays can actually be charged, at the same time. I admit there are pitfalls to coinsurance and copays if you don't have a clear understanding of them, a sort of caveat emptor. But coinsurance, copays and deductibles have always existed. The ACA is not responsible for their creation. Everything Mr. Joondeph says about coinsurance, copays and deductibles existed before the ACA came into existence. Here's an excerpt from an article explaining the differences between coinsurance and copays. In this segment of the article it explains how coinsurance and copay can be used for the same hospitalization.

How a copay and coinsurance are used together

"You don’t usually have to pay both a copay and coinsurance on the same healthcare service. For example, it would be unusual to pay a $40 copay for a doctor’s office visit, and then also have to pay a coinsurance of 20% of the cost on that same visit. However, it’s not illegal for health insurers to require this. Read the benefit summary carefully when you’re choosing a health plan so you’ll be aware if a health plan requires this unusual double form of cost sharing. You might end up simultaneously paying a copay and coinsurance for different parts of a complex healthcare service. Here’s how this might work. Let’s say you have a $50 copay for doctor visits while you’re in the hospital and a 30% coinsurance for hospitalization. If the doctor visits you four times in the hospital, you would end up owing a $50 copay for each of those visits, a total of $200 in copay charges. You’ll also owe the hospital a 30% coinsurance payment for your share of the hospital bill. It might seem like you’re being asked to pay both a copay and coinsurance for the same hospital stay. But, you’re really paying a copay for the doctor’s services, and coinsurance for the hospital’s services."


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhealthinsurance.about.com%2Fod%2Ffaqs%2Ff%2FWhats-The-Difference-Between-Copay-And-Coinsurance.htm&ei=6dETVaeTJZDqoATit4CgAw&usg=AFQjCNE7DuRltGEHliowB1F1N7jYxq-AVA&sig2=Dl_2uIIP80TTLubHmZGJVw

Now we have to ask ourselves did the ACA create this system. And I say the answer is NO. Coinsurance, Copay and Deductibles have been around a lot longer than the ACA. So why is Mr. Joondeph giving us a crash course in health insurance? I suspect because he wants you to associate a practice, that has been in place for decades, with the ACA. He's not telling us anything new, he's simply trying to discredit the ACA with a practice that would exist, with or without the ACA.

Mr. Joondeph says..."Premiums are just the opening salvo for consumers paying for health care. Paying the premium means you have insurance, but that doesn’t mean you can leave your wallet home when visiting the doctor or hospital."

Here Mr. Joondeph starts to explain healthcare insurance. Then he continues...

"It’s the hidden costs that will thin your wallet. Copays, deductibles, and coinsurance to be specific. Insurance behemoth Cigna reassures us that these added costs, “All work together to help reduce your medical expenses and protect your finances.” Really?

The copayment is a fixed amount, typically between $20-40, that you pay each time you access the healthcare system – physician visit, x-ray, laboratory, or hospital.

Coinsurance can take a bigger bite out of your wallet. It’s not a fixed cost, but instead a percentage of your bill. Once you meet your deductible (the third hidden cost), you may still have to pay anywhere from 10 to 30 percent of your medical bill based on your policy coinsurance percentage.

The largest hit on your wallet, however, is the deductible. It’s this amount that you pay in full before insurance pays anything. Family deductibles range from $6000 to $10,000 for the most popular silver and bronze Obamacare plans. Until meeting the deductible, you might as well be uninsured, paying cash for your medical care.
"

So what's his point? Other than listing "deductibles" available in some of the plans, the ACA has to offer, he has not said anything that wouldn't or didn't exist, before the ACA was enacted.

The rest of Mr. Joondeph's article is his apparent solution to what I can only surmise is the flaw, he sees, in deductibles. What that has to do with the ACA is beyond me. He's not actually railing against the ACA he just wants to have a Las Vegas style deductible system. Nothing in this boy's article really slams the ACA, with the exception of his opening paragraphs, in which he claims..." Health insurance premiums rose up to 56 percent under Obamacare and some of her constituents in California are paying over $2600 per month in premiums."...yet he offers no source to back up his claim. I found a source that I'm inclined to believe Mr. Joondeph used, to arrive at that number.

"Health insurance premiums up 39% to 56% under Obamacare, reach $2,604 a month in California

By Paul Bedard | March 17, 2014.
"

Pay particular attention that this article applies to California, not the entire country. And since Mr. Joondeph was citing Ms. Pelosi in the previous paragraphs, who is from the state of California, I can only assume he was using this article, by Mr. Bedard, as his source. Now obviously I could be wrong but Mr. Joondeph, who is not an expert on the ACA, gave us no source to back up his assertion that..." Health insurance premiums rose up to 56 percent under Obamacare and some of her constituents in California are paying over $2600 per month in premiums". I think the similarities between Mr. Joondeph's assertions of a 56% rise in health premiums and the $2600 figure, and Mr. Bedard's article are no coincidence. Here is the article...

www.washingtonexaminer.com%2Fhealth-insurance-premiums-up-39-to-56-under-obamacare-reach-2604-a-month-in-california%2Farticle%2F2545766&ei=HN8TVfCMMcruoASk6IKgBQ&usg=AFQjCNHmDYST7CtF2para70LVrB2MMZi9Q&sig2=vf9d3BybKnpJixnIpvPBhA" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonexaminer.com%2Fhealth-insurance-premiums-up-39-to-56-under-obamacare-reach-2604-a-month-in-california%2Farticle%2F2545766&ei=HN8TVfCMMcruoASk6IKgBQ&usg=AFQjCNHmDYST7CtF2para70LVrB2MMZi9Q&sig2=vf9d3BybKnpJixnIpvPBhA

But what does the article say? "Americans buying health insurance outside the new Obamacare exchanges are being forced to swallow premiums up to 56 percent higher than before the health law took effect because insurers have jumped the cost to cover all the added features of the new Affordable Care Act.". What!? The article isn't saying healthcare costs, of the ACA, went up 56%, it is saying, in California, those who chose not to buy insurance, through the ACA, had their cost increase by 56%. That is a far cry from what Mr. Joondeph is implying. I'm still waiting for the source that says..."healthcare costs of the ACA went up 56%", nationwide. It seems as if posters on this forum like to pick on California, but California does not represent the entire U.S.

Bottom line, this is an OpEd, by Mr. Joondeph, and is sorely lacking in relevancy. His article was primarily dedicated to explaining coinsurance, copay and deductibles; and his solution to a problem, perceived by him, concerning deductibles. In other words his article was of no practicable use.

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Mar 26, 2015 08:23:27   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Richard94611 wrote:
Wow ! And I must be imagining things because my health care premium went from about $98.00 to about $76.00/month ! Jack, there's a communist under your bed. Watch out !


Mine went from 235 mo, to over 500 - tax credit, now 213.
Do who is paying the tax credit to lower the premium?

Reply
Mar 26, 2015 11:46:57   #
Jerry A. Loc: California
 
son of witless wrote:
So when did getting your facts right become important?


Witless: For dummies like you nothing become important.

Reply
 
 
Mar 26, 2015 11:46:58   #
Jerry A. Loc: California
 
son of witless wrote:
So when did getting your facts right become important?


Witless: For dummies like you nothing become important.

Reply
Mar 26, 2015 11:48:36   #
Richard94611
 
Bruce, I'll say it again. Under ObamaCare, my medical insurance went from $98/mo to something like $76.

Reply
Mar 26, 2015 12:58:33   #
Jerry A. Loc: California
 
Richard94611 wrote:
So how come there are something like 13 million more people with access to health care now with ObamaCare than there were before ObamaCare began ?


OBAMACARE is not the best Medical Care plan because the corrupted members of our U.S. Congress eliminated the "Public Option" President Obama proposed, and cost control for the torrent of $$$$ money members of U.S. Congress received from the Medical monopoly, but OBAMACARE is better than nothing and provide some benefits.

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Mar 26, 2015 17:46:38   #
son of witless
 
Jerry A. wrote:
Witless: For dummies like you nothing become important.


I am glad to see you are making progress as a poster. One day your side might catch up to our side in the eternal pursuit of truth.

Reply
 
 
Mar 26, 2015 18:11:00   #
Richard94611
 
Hey, Son of Witless, when the price of stupid goes up to 5 cents a barrel, I want drilling rights to your brain. I am a kind and generous man, and I will split the proceeds with you. We'll both get very rich.



son of witless wrote:
I am glad to see you are making progress as a poster. One day your side might catch up to our side in the eternal pursuit of truth.

Reply
Mar 26, 2015 18:14:35   #
Richard94611
 
Let's guess who is paying to lower the premium. The taxpayers of this country, on the theory that we are all in this together, and the more fortunate owe a certain amount of care about and kindness to those who cannot afford the full cost of premiums. Of course, care and kindness are not strong points in the Republican personality as it is offered to other members of this society except members of their immediate family.


jack sequim wa wrote:
Mine went from 235 mo, to over 500 - tax credit, now 213.
Do who is paying the tax credit to lower the premium?

Reply
Mar 26, 2015 18:25:08   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
Richard94611 wrote:
Hey, Son of Witless, when the price of stupid goes up to 5 cents a barrel, I want drilling rights to your brain. I am a kind and generous man, and I will split the proceeds with you. We'll both get very rich.
You don't need to drill for anymore stupid.

Reply
Mar 26, 2015 19:08:07   #
Bruce Kennedy Loc: Kansas
 
Richard94611 wrote:
Bruce, I'll say it again. Under ObamaCare, my medical insurance went from $98/mo to something like $76.


Nice. Sorry, I suffer from dyslexia.

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