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more ignorance of the Bible
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Mar 21, 2015 21:54:05   #
BOHICA
 
alabuck wrote:
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Admittedly, I'm not a medical doctor. But, I was required to take human anatomy and physiology in college. The prof spent a lot of time talking about human sexual differences and how they are determined. Below is some of what we were taught.

You'll find a lot of disagreement about a genetic influence on homosexuality on the Internet. I'm not proposing that I'm convinced one way or the other. But, I'm not going to dismiss a genetic influence out of hand.

From my college days, let's look at a few physiological instances. As an egg is fertilized, it starts out with both the X and Y chromosomes from the male and a Y chromosome from the female. That gives it 2 Y's to 1 X chromosomes. In its earliest stages, it even shows evidence of "gill slits," like a fish. (But, that's beside the point.)

Also, during development, the fetus' brain goes through a "hormonal bath" which many believe is when the gender is determined. Some researchers say that ALL fetuses begin as females. As evidence, they point out that ALL (normal) people have nipples. Why do males have nipples when we can't nurse? Additionally, (and I hope this doesn't get me kicked off), if one examines a man's scrotum, you'll notice what looks like a scar running down the sack from the base of the penis to the anus. Many medical physiologists say that the "scar" is there because as the male reproductive organs formed outside the body cavity, what would've become the vaginal lips grew together forming the penis and scrotum; hence the "scar."

Another bit of evidence of genetic coding for homosexuality is in the instances of hermaphroditism. That's when a person has the physical characteristics of both sexes. Sometimes one of the sexual organs is more pronounced than the other and sometimes there are both complete sets of sexual organs.

In the past, shortly after birth, surgery was done to remove the lesser sexual organs and the child was raised in the ways of the remaining gender. Sometimes, the organs were left as is and the child decided it's sexual identity as it matured. A "mutation" in the DNA is linked to hermaphroditism, and consequently, is believed to be associated with homosexuality.

Below are some links to some websites that indicate a genetic link to homosexuality.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2012/10/19/is-homosexuality-a-choice/

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=9385646&fileId=S0033291714002451

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-12/being-born-gay-isnt-your-genes-its-them
------------ br Admittedly, I'm not a medical doct... (show quote)


It does not matter whether or not someone is born gay. It is the practice of the gay lifestyle that the Bible forbids.

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Mar 21, 2015 22:02:40   #
dennisimoto Loc: Washington State (West)
 
And all of the foregoing reinforces my belief that Religion and Spirituality are mutually exclusive terms. "A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle."

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Mar 21, 2015 23:05:44   #
Rifleman
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
Your providing links that provide falsified documentation, that has been debunked by Real Science.

http://fathersforlife.org/gay_issues/gay_gene.htm


That is significant because "gayness" is being promoted as a reaction to prejudice. There is no indicator that makes someone gay, anymore than someone is different because they are a criminal. What I am saying basically is that gays don't want equality they want preference. There is obviously a component of homosexuality that involves a mental pathology for most gays, not all. The council of Psycologists who determine such diagnosis were bullied into declaring homosexuality normal years ago.

And that strategy has been largely successful, the next target is any religion, except Islam, that considers homosexuality a sin.

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Check out topic: Quality service!
Mar 21, 2015 23:11:55   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
dennisimoto wrote:
And all of the foregoing reinforces my belief that Religion and Spirituality are mutually exclusive terms. "A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle."


Good one!!

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Mar 21, 2015 23:12:42   #
Rifleman
 
BOHICA wrote:
It does not matter whether or not someone is born gay. It is the practice of the gay lifestyle that the Bible forbids.


Exactly! A homosexual is called to repent, just as an adulterer or fornicator is. And for that matter anyone guilty of any sin.

As for the first remark, were homosexuals born gay and the religion of evolution true, gays would become extinct.

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Mar 21, 2015 23:14:33   #
Hemlock Connoiseur
 
alabuck wrote:
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Allow me theses questions:
1). Given religion's and society's general condemnation regarding homosexuality, why would anyone "decide" to be homosexual and, for the most part, be forced to hide their "chosen" lifestyle from family and friends?

2). You claim homosexuality is a "chosen" lifestyle. Yet, it has managed to survive eras of time, equating to thousands of generations, without, literally, dying-out. It's known, to, that heterosexual couples have had offspring that, at some point in their lives, declare themselves to be homosexual. Additionally, heterosexual couples have had multiple offspring (even sets of identical and non-identical twins) to declare themselves homosexual. Explain how or why homosexuality has managed to remain in existence since before recorded history if it is sexually non-reproductive and there is no genetic reasoning behind it?

3). Getting a headache is a physical act. Is it a choice on your part to get one? :wink:

4). An alcoholic taking a drink is a physical act. Biblically, being an alcoholic was a sin. Alcoholism is defined as a medical disease by the medical profession, with a recognized, genetic propensity toward its causation. Until recently, the genetic link wasn't known or accepted as fact; now, it is. Given that alcoholism is now known to be a disease, is it still a "sin of choice?"
---------- br Allow me theses questions: br 1). Gi... (show quote)


Good questions. However, consider that all sins result from genetic predisposition. Wrath is part of our "fight or flee" survival mechanism. Gluttony results from our instinct to feed ourselves. Pride and envy, and avarice from our instinct for personal survival by being the more fit, the better prepared, the top of the heap. Lust from our natural desire to procreate. And sloth, from our instinct to accomplish all of the above with a minimum of energy expended.

Is a predisposition to sin then a mitigating circumstance? In the absence of temptation, there is no virtue. If you don't like liquor, there is no particular virtue in your being sober. If, on the other hand, you love the stuff, you love how it makes you feel, then it is a mark of virtue and self-discipline that you control your impulses and remain temperate.

Some things may be OK in moderation--eating and drinking, for instance--the sin being in excess; other things may be without any merit whatsoever, and so are sinful, period. Given the idea that there is a Creator who has identified what these behaviors are, what difference does it make if you have the hypothetical gene that makes you want to be a drunk or be a homosexual, or whatever?

You still have the choice, the free will, to do as you will.

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Mar 21, 2015 23:20:49   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
Hemlock Connoiseur wrote:
Good questions. However, consider that all sins result from genetic predisposition. Wrath is part of our "fight or flee" survival mechanism. Gluttony results from our instinct to feed ourselves. Pride and envy, and avarice from our instinct for personal survival by being the more fit, the better prepared, the top of the heap. Lust from our natural desire to procreate. And sloth, from our instinct to accomplish all of the above with a minimum of energy expended.

Is a predisposition to sin then a mitigating circumstance? In the absence of temptation, there is no virtue. If you don't like liquor, there is no particular virtue in your being sober. If, on the other hand, you love the stuff, you love how it makes you feel, then it is a mark of virtue and self-discipline that you control your impulses and remain temperate.

Some things may be OK in moderation--eating and drinking, for instance--the sin being in excess; other things may be without any merit whatsoever, and so are sinful, period. Given the idea that there is a Creator who has identified what these behaviors are, what difference does it make if you have the hypothetical gene that makes you want to be a drunk or be a homosexual, or whatever?

You still have the choice, the free will, to do as you will.
Good questions. However, consider that all sins r... (show quote)


So how can a fat person be welcome but not a gay person. One does not maintain 300 lbs without choosing to glutton themselves, mostly in hiding. They practice gluttony. No one gains ten lbs by drinking a glass of water. They glutton. They eat tons. Its wrong. Why are they welcome but the gay is shunned??

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Mar 21, 2015 23:22:59   #
rumitoid
 
RETW wrote:
http://politicaloutcast.com/2015/03/why-it-is-a-big-deal-that-presbyterians-redefined-marriage/

Where in any bible does it say gay marriage is OK?

RETW 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)


Where in any Bible does it say that gossip, greed, enviousness, and jealousy is okey-dokey as long as you do not be a queer? Love of enemy makes it a little more stickier to maintain exclusive movements toward the LBGT community.

Why such intense focus on one presumed sin by a few in the Christian community, when most churches allow adultery and excuses for a divorced person? If one does not bake or photograph for the sinful, then close up shop for Christians!

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Mar 21, 2015 23:30:35   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
rumitoid wrote:
Where in any Bible does it say that gossip, greed, enviousness, and jealousy is okey-dokey as long as you do not be a queer? Love of enemy makes it a little more stickier to maintain exclusive movements toward the LBGT community.

Why such intense focus on one presumed sin by a few in the Christian community, when most churches allow adultery and excuses for a divorced person? If one does not bake or photograph for the sinful, then close up shop for Christians!


My new thing: why allow fat, obese people? Huge people! Fat assed people. People who eat till they are 100lbs or more over weight. FAT!! FAT!!!!! Eating and eating. CHOOSING to eat. CHOOSING to be big old fatties. CHOOSING. Deciding thay they will eat and eat and eat. And eating and eating. No one, no matter what they say, is three hundred or more lbs without eating tons more than they need or should eat. They defy the temple!!!

They are ok but not homosexuals? Really!?

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Mar 21, 2015 23:36:17   #
Hemlock Connoiseur
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
So how can a fat person be welcome but not a gay person. One does not maintain 300 lbs without choosing to glutton themselves, mostly in hiding. They practice gluttony. No one gains ten lbs by drinking a glass of water. They glutton. They eat tons. Its wrong. Why are they welcome but the gay is shunned??


I think in many respects, in our current society, gay people enjoy the protection of the federal gov't for their life choices, whereas fat people are actively discriminated against by some, with no recourse. However, I don't recall saying that gay people are either more or less sinful than fat people for giving in to their personal temptations.

And welcome or shunned by whom, BTW? Whether one welcomes or shuns either fat or gay people, or any other type of person, is entirely a matter of personal preference.

And, finally, when the point of my post was to agree with your premise that being gay is no worse than any other sin, what is the argument? I merely said that temptation, predilection, genetic predisposition, or whatever term you want to use, to engage in harmful behavior is not an excuse for engaging in the behavior.

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Mar 21, 2015 23:45:32   #
rumitoid
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
My new thing: why allow fat, obese people? Huge people! Fat assed people. People who eat till they are 100lbs or more over weight. FAT!! FAT!!!!! Eating and eating. CHOOSING to eat. CHOOSING to be big old fatties. CHOOSING. Deciding thay they will eat and eat and eat. And eating and eating. No one, no matter what they say, is three hundred or more lbs without eating tons more than they need or should eat. They defy the temple!!!

They are ok but not homosexuals? Really!?


Too funny, this bothers me as well.

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Mar 21, 2015 23:47:39   #
rumitoid
 
jimahrens wrote:
Sake reason if you give a person enough rope he will hang himself. yes it is I smell you.


Forget it, it is not worth a comment.

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Mar 21, 2015 23:48:28   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
Hemlock Connoiseur wrote:
I think in many respects, in our current society, gay people enjoy the protection of the federal gov't for their life choices, whereas fat people are actively discriminated against by some, with no recourse. However, I don't recall saying that gay people are either more or less sinful than fat people for giving in to their personal temptations.

And welcome or shunned by whom, BTW? Whether one welcomes or shuns either fat or gay people, or any other type of person, is entirely a matter of personal preference.

And, finally, when the point of my post was to agree with your premise that being gay is no worse than any other sin, what is the argument? I merely said that temptation, predilection, genetic predisposition, or whatever term you want to use, to engage in harmful behavior is not an excuse for engaging in the behavior.
I think in many respects, in our current society, ... (show quote)


But we overwhelmingly shun the gays in our churches as evil but we do none of that with the obese. Thats my only point. Not necessarily to you specifically. We will make wedding cakes for fatties, but not gays. The ultraconservatives accept fatties but not gays. Why?

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Mar 21, 2015 23:50:26   #
rumitoid
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Sorry Charlie, no where in the Bible does it say that those condemned will "burn for eternity in hell." That is one of the greatest misinterpretations by those, like yourself and many Christians, who have only a superficial knowledge of the Word of God.

The "eternal fire" is a spiritual metaphor for the destruction of the soul. Sodom and Gomorrah is a good example. It is gone, destroyed, not a thing left, burned up completely. But it is not still burning today.

The wages of sin is DEATH, not eternal damnation.

But any conversation about the Bible with non-believers is pointless. You have your beliefs or non-beliefs and that is that. So be it.
Sorry Charlie, no where in the Bible does it say t... (show quote)


Very arguable points. Annihilation for the wicked seems the best understanding.

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Mar 21, 2015 23:50:32   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
rumitoid wrote:
Too funny, this bothers me as well.


Bingo! Perhaps we have found the achiles of the "true conservatives".

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