Grugore

Seriously? That's like Clinton saying it depends on what your definition of is is.

JW

Not at all. It is a critical point. The original post's entire argument is dependent on the answer to that issue.

Grugore

How so? He claims that formalism over arches physicality. This is true.

His main argument is pretty simple. Chance and necessity cannot create a computer, nor the software that operates it. A cell is a biological factory controlled by instructions in it's DNA. It reads instructions, then produces output. DNA is a language. Every other language we have was created by a intelligent mind. They would not exist if humans hadn't invented them. So, who invented the language of DNA? Surely you don't believe it's the result of chance.

pafret Loc: Northeast

**********

In this instance some 'thing' is any "thing"

JW

I suppose there is some potential for chance but I wouldn't put any money on it'. The universe doesn't run on chance. It runs on clearly established rules.

The critical consideration needs to be addressed at a stage of logic that comes before the presented argument.

The conclusion reached makes defining all components of the argument essential.

JW

So, nothing = complete absence of any and all forms of material?

Grugore

You need to explain why it depends on a definition of what nothing is. He provides 9 definitions and three principles that he uses for his argument. How is a definition of nothing relevant?

Loki Loc: Georgia

You could say that absence of everything, i.e. emptiness, is something. It is not nothing by virtue of having a name. It takes more than physical absence to make a "nothing."

Loki Loc: Georgia

Damn double posting computerator.

JW

I am on tablet without a keyboard at the moment. I'll go into detail later tonight. All of the points rest on the definition and he presents it as an assumption without a foundation.

pafret Loc: Northeast

***Certainly

Grugore

A vacuum contains nothing. But it still occupies space. Even empty space is not nothing. We cannot comprehend what total nothingness is.

pafret Loc: Northeast

I certainly can comprehend total nothingness, what I can't do is apprehend it, since it is nothing. I've never heard of a perfect vacuum; it would have to have some sort of containment vessel. Some cosmologist would have to explain what is in that vessel since it surrounds nothing or is empty space something?

melbell Loc: California / Kentucky

Yes, and it is an effective contradictorial controllers defense, when you have left the realm of theme of the subject ,you can hover over the spelling punctuation or inconsequential quibbling for the quibblers sake .

Really , as theme must not be considered. substance must be destroyed with out discussing the actual study. No need to do the math, I am completely uninterested in this study it does not serve purpose for my purpose . As I simply can not control the narrative, I must change the argument by first being contradictory, then diversionary. Such as ......well that depends what is is.

This study and any evidence that supports even the possibility of God as represented in the bible is a threat,( To the unbeliever ) some unbelievers are threatened by the possibility of a whole book of rules.
Those who are threatened , some, reject it.
These are not men who seek to become wise.
These are men who believe themselves wise.
Clever, tricky, yes but unwise.
Not all are unkind or cruel , however you will find those who change the parameters or sequence of things. They who truly believe they have conquered with what they know is proven false. How by false premise, they set about to divert, and dissuade by endless discussion over trivialities rather than substance or thought. They are having their own argument so to speak it is not with you it is with God that the fibers of their beings strain.
These are the deviant's. They only have the cheater, liars victory, yet they are satisfied.

Thank you again for posting this thought provoking study.
I, join others in prayer and praise that the thoughtful will give it consideration and be encouraged to persue knowledge.

melbell Loc: California / Kentucky

Tricky, you first said you could think of several that predated the bible , but now reference Christ as the timeline.
And offer Horus.
Well,
Define
Expand
Present
Conclude
I may respond.