straightUp Loc: California

I *do* have problems with Biden but I also appreciate a lot of what he has done. So it's a mixed bag for me. But what "forces" me to vote for him is my concern for another 4 years of Trump, who I have a LOT of problems with and can't think of a single thing he did that I can appreciate.

As for my comment about the fanatic support that Trump gets from bigots... I was clearly referring to bigots... as in, what my sentence actually says. Just because he gets fanatic support from bigots doesn't mean that only bigots support him.

But since you're bringing up this false dilemma, I'm going to quantify it. I think that his 2016 deficit in the popular vote was only 3 million because there were a LOT of Americans that are NOT bigots that voted for him for other reasons. But I think that after 4 years of his presidency a LOT of those voters changed their minds about him, which may help explain why his deficit in 2020 increased to 8 million votes.

I think the more we learn about Trump the more he depends on bigotry to continue supporting him. If I had to guess, I would say his support in 2016 was 40% driven by bigotry and in 2020 it was maybe 70%. Since then with all his election denial BS and his criminal cases, I would guess that 90% of the people still standing by his side like good little soldiers are in fact bigots.

That doesn't mean these bigots are all the type that would lynch black people (although some of them are). Many of them are what my friend calls "polite bigots" which was a reference to my own mother, a British conservative who is outwardly respectful toward everyone but struggled when my brother married a Jew and when Prince Harry married a women carrying black DNA.

So bigotry runs a broad spectrum... it basically applies to any form of prejudice, whether intentional or ingrained... From those who commit hate crimes to those who would prefer that the government do the dirty work of keeping "other people" in "other places".

90% at least... I would bet on it.

son of witless

I confess I am just as bad as you. I see 90 % of Biden supporters as fanatical semi Communist weirdos. As far as "his deficit in 2020 increased to 8 million votes. " Most Presidents go down in popularity at the end of their years in office. It is only when they are out of office for years that they are appreciated. When Harry Truman left office the story was that he couldn't have been elected dog catcher. Also Trump had the bad fortune to have covid hit in his last year.

Even your boy Joe is not as popular as when he entered office. I suspect that as Jimmy Carter experienced, Biden's poll numbers will continue to plummet. A whole lot can go wrong between now and November. The anti Israeli protesters are attached to the Democratic Party. The Republican Party and Trump are solidly pro Israel. There is almost a Civil War within your party, between the Pro Israeli and the Pro Terrorist factions.

Joe Biden slow walked weapons early on to Ukraine. If Ukraine collapses, the sitting President will be blamed. If Ukraine survives, he will not get credit.

And then there is the Elephant in the room. Illegal immigration. Biden is 100 % responsible for the total mess at the border, and illegals being flown around the country in the dead of night. Shall bring up Trannie Rights ? Yea lets. I don't see how you guys win on that. You got one " Trump Card ". That is abortion.

Millions of otherwise normal women are fanatical in their support of killing babies in the womb. That is the only reason your boy Joe has a snowball's chance in Hell of beating Trump.

Justice101

So, by YOUR logic are you implying that the Blacks and Hispanics who are abandoning Biden for Trump some sort of bigots?

Rose42

I know numerous trump supporters and none are bigots or white supremacists

This is another case of people who may be intelligent but they’re still suckered by propaganda.

straightUp Loc: California

Aren't you the one who insulted someone earlier for parroting? You said, "but all he ever does is parrot what he reads." So, in your very next post, you wind up doing the same thing. Actually it's worse, you don't even write the words you just post links, as if that means something.

Let me explain how stupid it is to simply post links. For one, I can't even read the Bloomberg article because there's a pay wall and I'm not going to pay for yet another subscription just to read something you linked to.

Secondly, you fail to point out any smoking guns in either article. The Washington Times article says the main culprit of inflation is government spending, but it doesn't explain how. Just that it is. And to enforce this baseless assumption, the author states that this is the opinion of economists, but when I look for sources, I noticed the isn't any. He doesn't actually mention ANY economists at all. He simply says that "many economists say".

Well there are thousands and thousands of economists who all disagree with each other and most of them are idiots anyway.

So where does that leave us?

I know where it leaves me... brimming with confidence that government spending is NOT the main culprit and that Biden is correct in blaming corporate greed for at least some of it and that the Washington Times is a hack.

All you have to do is look at the total sum of public debt (often referred to as the national debt) and compare that to the total sum of private debt because both these sources of debt pump money into our economy, thereby affecting inflation.

In 2022 the national debt was at $31.42 trillion but private debt added up to $62.08 trillion, about twice as much. So we can already debunk the claim that government spending is "the main culprit" with very simple math.

"some economists say"... lol -what a hack.

Even if it were... the national debt is the accumulation of deficits concurrent with many presidents including Trump. Have a look at this jelly bean...



Nevermind the future years... this chart was used to support a forecast of the effects of extending Trump's tax cuts. But the years leading up to now show us that the biggest deficit was in 2020, during the pandemic and it was the result of record government spending that year and guess who was still in office?

So, unless you want me to keep shooting holes through your narrative, I would either come up with a real solid argument or just stop. And don't just pull headlines out of the box either, obviously, I can shoot holes through crackpot journalism too.

straightUp Loc: California

By my stated "logic", there is a 10% margin of Trump supporters who are not bigots and my bet is that you could fit the black voters in there. I would also assume that many of them are indeed motivated by some level of prejudice. Bigotry isn't limited to just white people. As for the Hispanics... same thing, except I don't know if they would all fit in that 10%. Interesting how you assumed I would think blacks and Hispanics are beyond bigotry.

So... I'm not standing on these numbers - I *did* say "if I had to guess" - so it's not even logic... it's a guess. But, your comment doesn't really do much to push my guess out of reason.

straightUp Loc: California

1. You probably know less than .001% of the Trump supporters out there well enough to say if they are or aren't bigots.
2. Most bigots don't realize that they are bigots. This is especially the case with older people who come from a time when certain lines of bigotry were considered normal.
3. You don't need to say "bigots or white supremacists" because white supremacists ARE bigots. One of many varieties.

Bigotry doesn't have to be hateful either... From a political standpoint, the key is whether or not you support policies that deny equality for some people based on a prejudice about their race, culture, sex or religion. You can be the nicest lady in town... all apples pies and smiles but you can still be a bigot if you have issues with things like same-sex marriage.

Oh, I'm sorry is that God's little rule? 'Got some news for you... there are Christian denominations that don't have a problem with same-sex marriage... Those that do are hiding their bigotry behind the big God-excuse.


There's no propaganda here (aside from my own). I am simply postulating based on my own observations which are probably as limited as yours. I am mostly going by the opinions that I hear or read from Trump supporters and a logical theory that there can only be two real reasons why anyone would still support Trump... either they are very wealthy or they are motivated to some degree by bigotry.

son of witless

I was trying to understand Straight up's viewpoint. He insults Trump supporters with a nastiness that is striking. To project such hatred onto a collective grouping of people where likely only the barest minimum of members fit his description of them, must come from a deep and unsettling place in his mind.

federally indicted mattoid

Very good lesson. Thanks straightup

On the national debt too.

Few of us spend the time you do researching

Rose42

You’re right. I’m not a trump supporter but know none like what him and others insist they are. That shows that people aren’t hard to manipulate even though they consider themselves critical thinkers. No wordsmithing can hide that

I don’t get the hate either - from either side. Most people just want to live their lives and be content. The media is often a hindrance to that

federally indicted mattoid

I just don't see hate in his postings.

Research, facts and observations, yes. Hate, no.

Where are you seeing it?

Rose42

You don’t see it in your own either. There’s too much of it from both ends.

He’s very opinionated and sometimes has a point.

federally indicted mattoid

Where is it in mine OR his?

I know what you mean about the other "end" but we're not threatening anyone like the padre does, or weenie does, or others who want to see liberals dead.

straightUp Loc: California

That deep and unsettling place is a concern that I could be sharing a democracy with people who are susceptible to nefarious manipulation. Sharing a democracy is like sharing a ship where crew members have to count on each other. If the crew is split on whether to steer clear of the iceberg ahead, there's a good chance the ship will go down. So it's not hate... it's frustration. I'm sure your side feels it too. That's how it usually works.

straightUp Loc: California

Most of the Trump supporters that I know are polite bigots. Not exclusively the type that you think I am describing. If that term is new to you, it means you didn't catch my verbosity here - https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/tpr?p=4901301&t=314885

If I was actually saying that 90% of you are white hooded, blood-thirsty lunatics, then your conclusion from that premise would probably be correct.


And this is why I even responded at all... Very good point!