Let's try something new....truth and factual discussion without lies and distortions. subject: Abortion (Page 3): You think we need "reasonable" limits when it comes to...

Ricktloml

donho50 wrote:

I don't disagree with your opinion. You express w... (show quote)

You think we need "reasonable" limits when it comes to willfully/arbitrarily depriving the most innocent/helpless/defenseless members of society of their lives. And America's moral compass will tolerate the mass murder of the unborn---if there's a catchy slogan like "safe, legal and rare".

Strycker Loc: The middle of somewhere else.

RandyBrian wrote:

I do not think your argument is valid. Murder is ... (show quote)

Then why use a legal term like "murder" to describe what is essentially a moral and ethical question? Unless it is to give an impression that it is a legal issue when, currently, it is not. Or is the question of this post really of whether abortion is moral or ethical? Isn't that a personal opinion? The answer to that question varies from one extreme to the other and every point in between across the globe and in every society. There are many conflicting opinions to yours. I respect your right to have your own opinions, but, what makes your opinions the only right ones?

donho50

Ricktloml wrote:

You think we need "reasonable" limits when it comes to willfully/arbitrarily depriving the most innocent/helpless/defenseless members of society of their lives. And America's moral compass will tolerate the mass murder of the unborn---if there's a catchy slogan like "safe, legal and rare".

It’s been legal for fifty years, and has been tolerated by America’s moral compass with slogans like that, and “ right to choose” and “reproductive rights”. You make my point. The country is not ready for a national ban on abortion. Reasonable limits remain open for discussion, and have plenty of merit. Zero tolerance will never fly. Take the small, incremental wins on late term prohibition and parental consent for minors, etc and move on.

RandyBrian Loc: Texas

Strycker wrote:

Then why use a legal term like "murder" ... (show quote)

There is no particular underlying reason that I prefer the term 'murder' when describing an unnecessary abortion. In my mind, it IS murder.....even when legally allowable. No one has to agree with me. Call it murder, killing a baby, eliminating an unwanted mass of cells, or any of the other emotionally neutral terms pro-choice people use, it is still the same thing. Killing a child. And certainly there are other opinions than mine. That is what this thread is about. And whether we, as a society and a country, are comfortable with the legal killing of millions of unborn human beings. IMO that is murder, unless the woman's life is SERIOUSLY in danger. Having to adjust her lifestyle doesn't cut it.

RandyBrian Loc: Texas

donho50 wrote:

It’s been legal for fifty years, and has been tolerated by America’s moral compass with slogans like that, and “ right to choose” and “reproductive rights”. You make my point. The country is not ready for a national ban on abortion. Reasonable limits remain open for discussion, and have plenty of merit. Zero tolerance will never fly. Take the small, incremental wins on late term prohibition and parental consent for minors, etc and move on.

I can not and will not do that. Nor do I tell people of color that "things are getting better....just embrace the improvements and move on." Nor do I tell my three daughters that they have to accept the glass ceiling when they bump into it. Yes, I will take whatever small victories come, but I will never stop advocating for what is right.

donho50

RandyBrian wrote:

I can not and will not do that. Nor do I tell people of color that "things are getting better....just embrace the improvements and move on." Nor do I tell my three daughters that they have to accept the glass ceiling when they bump into it. Yes, I will take whatever small victories come, but I will never stop advocating for what is right.

Advocating for your beliefs is a noble pursuit. Insistence that others follow is a different road. Eloquent persuasion is what changes minds, not recrimination. If the pro-life side espoused better argument, perhaps more would see the inherent virtue in their position. If the best of all possible arguments has been consistently championed, and the majority of people remain unconvinced, perhaps it's best to put it in God's hands and live a virtuous life yourself.

Wonttakeitanymore

RandyBrian wrote:

I'll start. br Abortion kills a living creature. ... (show quote)

The only time they don’t believe the science is when there’s proof of God and anything that works against their narrative

Wonttakeitanymore

Bevvy wrote:

per capita abortions are mostly done by blacks . Abortion was started to control the blacks , it was started by democrats . remember it was the democrats that wore those white sheets and burned crosses . Years ago they were
called dixiecrats . it was dixiecrats who started that awful war back in 1861 to maintain their slaves . it was a republican president who gave them their freedom. So now they call all conservative whites - white supremist - when only the democrats should wear that badge

So aptly put!!

RandyBrian Loc: Texas

donho50 wrote:

Advocating for your beliefs is a noble pursuit. Insistence that others follow is a different road. Eloquent persuasion is what changes minds, not recrimination. If the pro-life side espoused better argument, perhaps more would see the inherent virtue in their position. If the best of all possible arguments has been consistently championed, and the majority of people remain unconvinced, perhaps it's best to put it in God's hands and live a virtuous life yourself.

I do my poor best to live such a life. But doing right in God's eyes REQUIRES advocating for what is right here on Earth. We are in the world, but not of it. We are the salt of the Earth, and should be a light for all to see....whether they choose to see it or not.
And what could POSSIBLY be a better argument than abortion is killing a living human child????
Again, I can't speak for every Christian, but the vast majority of Christians are NOT trying to force our religious beliefs on anyone. That is an anathema to the teachings of Christ. As Christians, we are advocating for pro-life policies because doing otherwise is a personal sin.
But that is not why we BELIEVE abortion is despicably wrong. The one and only argument needed is that science and medicine has determined that a fetus is a human child. Therefore aborting one is killing. The fallacious argument that "let everyone make their own choice" does not and CAN not be applied when killing is involved.

fastforwardr1

American Vet wrote:

If I were a woman, I would not want to be compelled to carry a baby to term that I didn't want.

Then why did the woman participate in an activity that could result in pregnancy? It's called 'personal responsibility.

Amen, just like being an outlaw if you can"t do the time, don't do the crime!

RandyBrian Loc: Texas

Wonttakeitanymore wrote:

The only time they don’t believe the science is when there’s proof of God and anything that works against their narrative

If you are referring to the left, I agree. That has been my personal observation for the past 5 decades.

donho50

RandyBrian wrote:

I do my poor best to live such a life. But doing ... (show quote)

Again, I see very little light between our points of view. My point is that more people in this country want access to legal abortion in some form than those who would like it abolished all together. As long as that sentiment holds true, the best we can hope for is minimizing these occurences through restrictions on late term abortion, prohibition on fetal organ harvesting, minors without parental consent, a moratorium on tax dollars, advocacy for pro-life alternatives, and prayer.

RandyBrian Loc: Texas

donho50 wrote:

Again, I see very little light between our points of view. My point is that more people in this country want access to legal abortion in some form than those who would like it abolished all together. As long as that sentiment holds true, the best we can hope for is minimizing these occurences through restrictions on late term abortion, prohibition on fetal organ harvesting, minors without parental consent, a moratorium on tax dollars, advocacy for pro-life alternatives, and prayer.

I understand. I think that there is room for both of our approaches.

donho50

RandyBrian wrote:

I understand. I think that there is room for both of our approaches.

Amen, brother.

TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!

Ricktloml wrote:

I fear you/TexaCan/myself may hope for reason in a... (show quote)

Amen!