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Mar 22, 2022 19:45:05   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
manning5 wrote:
The two conflicts should not be conflated as though there was a super view looking down on them adjudging any of them hypocritical. Each of them arose out of their unique past and current histories and their histories with the West. Each of them appear to have divergent ideologies in action, and have their own rulers and forms of government. It is not only apples and oranges but also bananas and peaches, with a cumquat and a cantaloupe thrown in trying to help save the day. Don't ask me which is which!
The two conflicts should not be conflated as thoug... (show quote)


I did enjoy the imagery you invoked

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Mar 22, 2022 19:45:08   #
debeda
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
The ottoman part is correct... Although at the time neither Israel or Palestine were nations...
Israel has repeatedly rejected the one nation option...Due to it providing millions of Palestinian Muslims with equal voting rights....Israel is adamant that Israel will remain a Jewish state...
Palestinians never had a hatred for Jews (Jews have lived in the area for thousands of years alongside their Muslim and Christian neighbors) until the Israeli Zionists began stealing their nation and brutalizing their people....

I'm not saying their isn't blood on the hands of Palestinians, just that it's another issue that has multiple sides....
The ottoman part is correct... Although at the tim... (show quote)


As do all issues...

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Mar 22, 2022 19:45:36   #
debeda
 
manning5 wrote:
The two conflicts should not be conflated as though there was a super view looking down on them adjudging any of them hypocritical. Each of them arose out of their unique past and current histories and their histories with the West. Each of them appear to have divergent ideologies in action, and have their own rulers and forms of government. It is not only apples and oranges but also bananas and peaches, with a cumquat and a cantaloupe thrown in trying to help save the day. Don't ask me which is which!
The two conflicts should not be conflated as thoug... (show quote)


😂🤣😂🤣👍👍👍

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Check out topic: Fauci Aide Bragged That He Could ‘Make Emails Disappear’ — Including ‘Smoking Guns’
Mar 25, 2022 20:16:46   #
manning5 Loc: Richmond, VA
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
I did enjoy the imagery you invoked


One has to be rooted in deep history to make the smallest attempt to unravel these long-standing conflicts and the hypocrisies that exist all over the place and time. Even then, it becomes a matter of opinion as to who is in the right. None of the argumentation will make the slightest difference either.

My understanding about the Palestine question is rather simple, so if it is too simple you can correct me. Israel has offered to support a Palestine State many times, but with one condition: that the Palestinians accept the sovereignty of Israel and agree to peaceful coexistence. The Palestine authorities have refused to do so every time.

Thus, the US, in support of Israeli sovereignty, has backed Israel. The so-called Two State solution is dead in the water because the Palestinians want to drive the Israelis into the sea and will not compromise. That is it from the US point of view, I believe.
None of us believe that Israel should continue to annex territory in the West Bank, but they do so on their own hook. This is complicating the situation. Seems to me the Palestinian hatred for Jews is the principal cause of the conflict.

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Mar 25, 2022 20:26:29   #
debeda
 
manning5 wrote:
One has to be rooted in deep history to make the smallest attempt to unravel these long-standing conflicts and the hypocrisies that exist all over the place and time. Even then, it becomes a matter of opinion as to who is in the right. None of the argumentation will make the slightest difference either.

My understanding about the Palestine question is rather simple, so if it is too simple you can correct me. Israel has offered to support a Palestine State many times, but with one condition: that the Palestinians accept the sovereignty of Israel and agree to peaceful coexistence. The Palestine authorities have refused to do so every time.

Thus, the US, in support of Israeli sovereignty, has backed Israel. The so-called Two State solution is dead in the water because the Palestinians want to drive the Israelis into the sea and will not compromise. That is it from the US point of view, I believe.
None of us believe that Israel should continue to annex territory in the West Bank, but they do so on their own hook. This is complicating the situation. Seems to me the Palestinian hatred for Jews is the principal cause of the conflict.
One has to be rooted in deep history to make the s... (show quote)


I agree, from what I know.

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Mar 25, 2022 21:13:37   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
manning5 wrote:
One has to be rooted in deep history to make the smallest attempt to unravel these long-standing conflicts and the hypocrisies that exist all over the place and time. Even then, it becomes a matter of opinion as to who is in the right. None of the argumentation will make the slightest difference either.

My understanding about the Palestine question is rather simple, so if it is too simple you can correct me. Israel has offered to support a Palestine State many times, but with one condition: that the Palestinians accept the sovereignty of Israel and agree to peaceful coexistence. The Palestine authorities have refused to do so every time.

Thus, the US, in support of Israeli sovereignty, has backed Israel. The so-called Two State solution is dead in the water because the Palestinians want to drive the Israelis into the sea and will not compromise. That is it from the US point of view, I believe.
None of us believe that Israel should continue to annex territory in the West Bank, but they do so on their own hook. This is complicating the situation. Seems to me the Palestinian hatred for Jews is the principal cause of the conflict.
One has to be rooted in deep history to make the s... (show quote)


Interesting...

Sort of like Russia has agreed to a Western Ukraine as long as the East is under their control...

Wonder why the Ukrainians are against this????



I understand your point concerning Israel offering to allow Palestine statehood... But I also understand the Palestinian response...

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Mar 25, 2022 21:25:41   #
debeda
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Interesting...

Sort of like Russia has agreed to a Western Ukraine as long as the East is under their control...

Wonder why the Ukrainians are against this????



I understand your point concerning Israel offering to allow Palestine statehood... But I also understand the Palestinian response...


Which is why there is diplomacy. Not lobbing bombs and grenades and bullets. By any party.

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Check out topic: If Dr. Martin Luther King were alive today this is what he would say to the democrats:
Mar 25, 2022 21:37:48   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
debeda wrote:
Which is why there is diplomacy. Not lobbing bombs and grenades and bullets. By any party.


Absolutely.... But when diplomacy fails, armies step in...

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Mar 25, 2022 21:39:28   #
debeda
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Absolutely.... But when diplomacy fails, armies step in...


UGH.

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Mar 25, 2022 21:47:45   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
debeda wrote:
UGH.


Human nature

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Mar 25, 2022 22:12:29   #
debeda
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Human nature


I say UGH, because more than half the time the PEOPLE don't want war, or much give a damn about the machinations of governments

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