skyrider

She is already very much in, Manning. And I will add is a super addition.

manning5 Loc: Richmond, VA

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A quick reply to your first point: The Precambrian period was a mere 500 to 550 million years ago.

To the second: Have you looked at Dembski's formulation in detail? It is entirely possible for God to wave any block that arises, but the math is usually reliable to show truth, barring charlatans and mistakes. I simply cannot wave my hand and dismiss math as a logical tool when addressing something that is entirely amenable to its use.

To the third. This gene Orfan is new to me, so I cannot respond without a bit of research. I am not a biologist, and what I do know comes from people like S. Meyers, Behe, and ReMine. In any event, the IC concept is a powerful theory, and it is so simple to apply. So far, I have no appreciation of any mechanism that defeats IC short of
God's intervention Himself, especially when to my knowledge, no one has been able to show the full progression from many lower forms to, say, Man, or a horse, or a dog. Further, one might ask where all the information came from for the first cell, something Darwin did not address: the origin of life, and for the enormous number of cells needed during the Precambrian explosion for which there were no immediate or a few generations back predecessors ever found. There are a lot of fossils for the prior few billion years, but none at the
Burgess Shale related to the many life forms generated just 500 years ago!

(The Miller experiment has been shown not to be useful in the origin-of-life research.)

I am suspicious of any mechanism that so conveniently defeats Irreducible Complexity. Can you describe how Orfan does this in a bit more detail?

JW

Sure, do you have any relationship to assembly language programming? If so, you will understand the concept of 'stop bits'. A stop bit serves the function of terminating a machine reading sequence. It is necessary so that the computer can make sense of the code and execute its instructions properly. It conveys no information but provides a means of controlling how the computer reads the code. For example, it's a little like the spaces we leave between words. Each space serves to separate the words making reading easier. Withoutthem,thesentencemaybe understoodbyahumanbutisunintelligibletoanautomaticprocess.

Genes work the same way. When a gene is missing the 'stop bit', instead of making a nose like a parental nose, it could make a nose that just keeps growing, or is modified in other ways, depending on what genetic coding was crashed into because of the missing stop-reading instruction. It could result in a nose whose nostrils open sideways or one with no nostrils at all or one on top of the head instead of in the middle of the face. Major changes may take millennia but once started in a particular direction, the flow is established. The history of whales is a great exemplar of the processes involved because it has almost no missing links.

At least, that is my understanding of it.

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

Thank You, manning.. I welcome the opportunity…

manning5 Loc: Richmond, VA

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Yes, indeed I know stop bits and some other things in code. But this serves to confuse me no end.

We must postulate that instructions to build every part of a living creature down to the micro and Mini micro level is available in DNA such that it can instruct a process, a 3D production of animals or man or plants, in coded and compressed form to be contained in the birth channel egg or eggs of some creature for eventual egress as a growing animal, vegetable or whatever.

(In the case of Precambrian animals, there was no birth channel we can find.)

Does the sheer quantity of bits to be found in DNA for this approach seem too excessive? Then there is the partner in most cases who adds something early on, a sort of merge of bits to make a whole, fertilize the egg, and start the 3D development in the womb. OK, where did the first cell-bound DNA or multiple types of DNA's come from? And is there such a 3D growth mechanism inside a woman? Seems so! That must be! Right?

Why 3D is simple, as a baby is formed, he or she must grow its necessary organs apace, as well as miles of connections of several kinds, all at the same time, taking less and less types of sustenance from the mother, I believe. A miracle in process!

What have I done! I believe I explained how IC is not necessary! The Mother provides all that is needed until the baby becomes self-sufficient and more or less complete! The 3D process wins, though I have no idea how it works in the womb! But I can show anyone that 3D processes are currently in use all over the place.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

Hi Manning,

For forty plus years, I spent my free time researching and writing reports on the founders, their teachings, histories, and the beliefs of major religions, prominent non-Christian, pseudo-Christian cults, and the Occult then managed a non-profit online Christian Bible based Cult Awareness Center website for another decade +, including writing reports and uploading after inserting the HTML code and Graphics.

It was never my professional career, but was an example of God fulfilling His promises. (Psalm 37:4)

I can not now unlearn what I know.

Whenever anyone would stifle free speech by forbidding "theology," - which is defined as the study of the nature of God and religious truth, and rational inquiry into religious questions, and both Jesus Christ and the God of the Bible are tossed into the trash bin, it is easily identified as an exercise in self-exaltation, and a conscious denial of God's truth, - lest God's truth impede their sacred search for their own personal truth, which cannot possibly stand up to what God has already written.

The following website I pulled up on the internet reads very similarly to the occult thinking some on this proposed site are promoting.

https://metaphysics.com/what-is-metaphysics/

"Universal Intelligence, being the Creator of all things, thus lives and exists in all things, which can be thought of as the existence of an Ultimate Unity. Unity symbolizes love, and love is the spirit of Universal Intelligence, or God."

"The nature of reality - speculative philosophy - most interested Dr. Masters, the university's founder, who believes: This comprises the basic premise of Mind and Universe leading to such foundational questions as, who am I?; what am I?; where am I?; and where am I going? What he studied caused him to seek more knowledge about the mystical as well as any form of psychology that had an appreciation of the mystical."

"He was diligent in his search until finding a nontraditional school where he could learn more about mystical teachings, as well as spiritual psychology, and in 1953 he enrolled in that college. He graduated with a doctorate in 1959 and went on to create his own metaphysical research and teaching organization: the Institute of Parapsychology, located in Beverly Hills, California.

"Eager to further his knowledge, he enrolled in another metaphysical college in 1960 called the New Thought Science Institute of Los Angeles, California, this time focusing on New Thought teachings. He graduated with a second doctorate three years later. Originating around the 1830s, New Thought schools, centers, and institutes began emerging quickly during the 1950s and 1960s, especially in California. Most operate today under the auspices of the International New Thought Alliance. The integration of spiritual, metaphysical, and philosophical teachings within the New Thought movement was widely received and continues its expansion to this day."

The New Thought movement (also Higher Thought) is a spiritual movement which coalesced in the United States in the early 19th century. New Thought was preceded by "ancient thought", accumulated wisdom and philosophy from a variety of origins, such as Ancient Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Chinese, Taoist, Vedic, Hindu, and Buddhist cultures and their related belief systems, but never the God of the Bible, or His "Holy Word."

"Dr. Paul Leon Masters' coalesced around all these occult practices, spending over 40 years faithfully devoted to his own meditation practices and "higher consciousness" research. Dr. Masters describes how a daily practice gives one insight to a greater reality other than one’s everyday 5-sense perception, creating a higher level of awareness that carries over into daily life."

He promotes mystical meditation benefits attributing to it "inner peace, connection to the still, small voice within, and awakening one’s consciousness to a deeper understanding"...

It could more properly be called the "Luciferian initiation."

Their goal is to reduce the students' mind to the consistency of jello - or mush.That's a first installment of what is involved in the "transformation," of the mind.

In the final analysis, each individual is to come away with the realization that he/she has an interconnectivity with the universe (Pantheism), and all things within it (Animism) because if "All is One and "One is All," everyone is divine, i.e., part of God, and no one requires a Savior, or anyone to forgive their "sins," which don't actually exist.

Such a mindset has nothing but contempt for the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I would never be subjected to "signing in" to a subsection devoted to the Occult, without the freedom of speech to respond and refute using God's Word to do so.

manning5 Loc: Richmond, VA

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I take your point, Zemirah! If I can speak for the others, we were not in the end excluding theology, just wanted to get this section off the ground without entertaining the kinds of argumentation brought to bear from all sorts of belief systems, such that we would be forever in an argument over religion and religious dogma, and not paranormal or metaphysical thoughts. Just defining terms of reference is rather hard, don't you think?

I do believe you would be an enormous asset to the section, and in my opinion, could well add theology to the growing information we should deal with. Additionally, I am aware that it might be all too easy to get snared into some aspect that we should have avoided in the first place. We do need a guardian! That just might be one of your roles here, to keep us going straight.

I will talk to JW and sky about this and get back to you.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

The nine year old to whom I was referring was me.

If you equate honesty with "being overly critical," or cannot differentiate between the two, protect your thin skin, for you could easily melt down.

Searching for a means to communicate with your theorized "universal mind," which was also clearly stated, far surpasses "only attempting to bring together anecdotes from interested people for the purpose of comparison and how the mechanics of these experiences might function...".

FYI, that "august assembly" is remembered for freeing the serfs of France from almost all the fees that had kept them financially imprisoned to their landowners for centuries.

I haven't the time, motive or inclination for the petty emotionalism of applying sarcasm to you.

JW

Zemirah: "Whenever anyone would stifle free speech by forbidding "theology," - which is defined as the study of the nature of God and religious truth, and rational inquiry into religious questions, and both Jesus Christ and the God of the Bible are tossed into the trash bin, it is easily identified as an exercise in self-exaltation, and a conscious denial of God's truth, - lest God's truth impede their sacred search for their own personal truth, which cannot possibly stand up to what God has already written."

Your paragraph, noted above, is exactly why I, personally, would choose to exclude religion from this line of examination. The clear antagonism you display to views other than your own is counterproductive to our enquirey.

manning5 Loc: Richmond, VA

I am out-voted, Zemirah. I am also concerned that such conflict at the beginning of our quest will color the whole thing.

Using another analogy, I feel that we will be looking through a peephole at things we will have almost no chance to understand very well, but there are a few things we may pick up before we decide to run for the hills. From my vantage point, I have learned quite a lot about just what is out there in the Paranormal without doing much besides reading about Paranormal Elements arranged in a form like the table of elements in science. Same for Metaphysics, I never knew much about it, now at least I have somewhat greater understanding of what it entails, or what some people think is entailed. So far, I feel no problem with what we are reading about for our education. I, for one, do not feel that I am trying to poke God in the eye, just trying to learn more about God's Universe. I also believe that theology will have to be taken into account fairly soon now. It must happen.

Roamin' Catholic Loc: luxurious exile

This is exactly the position I wished to take when I presented my two stories which revolved around the Order of the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts of Jesus and Mary. I hope I succeeded in drawing attention to the relationship between the UM and the players in this temporal world, myself included. Rather than proselytizing on behalf of the Catholic Church and Christianity in general, although the back story should be obvious if you read between the lines.

The story told by Zemirah accomplishes this principle as well.

I think my next offering will be something along the lines of; How Would You (or How Did You) react when you were confronted by a paranormal manifestation?

manning5 Loc: Richmond, VA

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That is what we are doing now, compiling our writings and experiences to see what they entail. We are also learning the vocabulary of the paranormal and metaphysics, and just what the scope of such things there is to read about. As I have said before, the watchwords here are ignorance and curiosity.

JW

I think we have to remember the tinfoil hats. Maintaining an open mind is absolutely essential.

manning5 Loc: Richmond, VA

You want a tinfoil hat? You have to make it for yourself, I'm too busy looking in that peephole.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

Manning, I excused myself from your endeavor in my last message. I would never be a part of this. There is nothing there for me. I've been there, done that, and would now find it tiresome.

There is no point in politely speaking to others about my inclusion into something I have already declined.

A guardian I am not. Seek Him whose theology you have exclusively excluded.

I grew up in the shadow of a large university, and always return there, to a campus of beautiful limestone buildings, and a multitude of modern apartment buildings and private homes housing 49,000 students, beginning six blocks away from my home. I have heard and participated in similar conversations/speculations/debates repeatedly, beginning years ago, over Evolution versus Creationism, and the reality of Noah's flood, etc., until there was nothing more to be wrung from it.

Never, however, was an opposing view censored... Freedom of speech was recognized and welcomed then. That has required the current cancel culture.

One look at your title: "The Universal Mind, God, and the Big Bang..." makes it impossible to deny that you understand your search is "religious..." and the animosity to Biblical words and a Biblical mindset displayed by "sky" and to a lesser extent, JW, illustrates the same ancient influence that inspired the Romans to destroy the Christians in the coliseum.

It wasn't because they worshiped Jesus Christ that they were despised, but because they worshiped Him only, refusing to extend that worship to the plethora of Roman stone gods and to the Roman Emperor himself.

Those in your project display the youthful enthusiasm of Fred Flintstone and the Water Buffaloes with their secret hand shakes and code words.

Although that is your present forte, I believe you will soon understand the emptiness and futility of your pursuit.

I have no emotional dislike for any individuals, - that doesn't compute, only for their false gods through whom many are deceived.