The Universal Mind, God, and the Big Bang...
Feb 1, 2022 02:20:49 #
skyrider wrote:
I say the monkeys evolved from us. This is clear if we look at the direction humans are going in. We see the progression downward if we look at the amoeba which is what we will become if we don't straighten up and fly right.
I have to admit, it sure does seem that way.
Feb 1, 2022 07:18:39 #
JW wrote:
How so?
Most of what will be covered in this discussion won't be proven. That is where the problem you present resides. Your position is that you have proof. The aim of this discussion is to ATTEMPT to make our case, mostly by inference.
Most of what will be covered in this discussion won't be proven. That is where the problem you present resides. Your position is that you have proof. The aim of this discussion is to ATTEMPT to make our case, mostly by inference.
Isn’t the whole topic itself inference??
Isn’t Inference the process of deriving logical conclusions from premises known or assumed to be true?? Or is it only conceptual to the person inferring something?
Feb 1, 2022 07:24:36 #
skyrider wrote:
Here is my observation, which is not critical of t... (show quote)
Very much much appreciate this post and thread..
Would the unexplained “ miracles” experienced fall within this comment of yours;
The subject of our "minds" being a part of a conscious universe of all information that has ever been, can best be studied and discussed from the perspective of our actual experiences regarding the mystical
experiences that some of us have, that do in fact turn out to be a "fact".
Feb 1, 2022 08:05:57 #
lindajoy wrote:
Very much much appreciate this post and thread..
Would the unexplained “ miracles” experienced fall within this comment of yours;
The subject of our "minds" being a part of a conscious universe of all information that has ever been, can best be studied and discussed from the perspective of our actual experiences regarding the mystical
experiences that some of us have, that do in fact turn out to be a "fact".
Would the unexplained “ miracles” experienced fall within this comment of yours;
The subject of our "minds" being a part of a conscious universe of all information that has ever been, can best be studied and discussed from the perspective of our actual experiences regarding the mystical
experiences that some of us have, that do in fact turn out to be a "fact".
Yes Linda, unexplained miracles would certainly be in this category. The word "miracle" is much like Carl Jung's "synchronicity", one of my favorite words because he coined that word to describe that which is a result without any knowable cause. For me , I know the cause but want to know more about the mechanics of it. Quantum
physics is making good progress in this and mustbe included in this quest.
Feb 1, 2022 10:11:34 #
skyrider wrote:
Yes Linda, unexplained miracles would certainly be in this category. The word "miracle" is much like Carl Jung's "synchronicity", one of my favorite words because he coined that word to describe that which is a result without any knowable cause. For me , I know the cause but want to know more about the mechanics of it. Quantum
physics is making good progress in this and mustbe included in this quest.
physics is making good progress in this and mustbe included in this quest.
Must once again comment on the thread itself and a number of exceptional comments here!!
Also thought provoking with a bit of soul searching triggered..
A while back, years actually, I came across this and offer it for consideration in the realm of quantum physics itself…
I once read of “the language of quantum physics rather than yogic miracles,” where a number of leading edge scientists suggest that the universe and everything in it including the healing of our bodies “is” what it “is” because of the force of consciousness itself. Interestingly, the more we understand the relationship between consciousness, our inner experiences, and our world, the less far-fetched this suggestion becomes…
In the ninth century A.D., the great Tibetan yogi, Milarepa, began a personal retreat to master his body in this world, a journey that would last until his death at the age of 84.
A miracle~~
A fascinating achievement here in mind over matter~~ or is it???
https://www.healyourlife.com/experience-miracles-with-quantum-physics
I found Jung and Pauli's papers on “synchronicity” confusing yet truly defining at least in attempt.. Thank you for the reminder I need to go back to a couple books I have.
Feb 1, 2022 10:24:27 #
manning5
Loc: Richmond, VA
skyrider wrote:
Yes Linda, unexplained miracles would certainly be in this category. The word "miracle" is much like Carl Jung's "synchronicity", one of my favorite words because he coined that word to describe that which is a result without any knowable cause. For me , I know the cause but want to know more about the mechanics of it. Quantum
physics is making good progress in this and mustbe included in this quest.
physics is making good progress in this and mustbe included in this quest.
If we are all in agreement, I will compose the letter to Admin requesting a user-managed Section called Metaphysics and the Paranormal. The managers will be skyrider, JW and manning5. The purpose will be to provide a place more private for our discussions, and participants will have to voluntarily sign in.
We will begin with four activities as focal points of the effort: 1) Definition of terms led by JW; 2) Collection and distribution of experiences let by skyrider; 3) Exploration and classification of sources led by manning5; and 4) Researching the collected material by all three of us. Others may participate, of course.
Any suggestions before I send the letter are welcome. I hope to send it tonight.
Feb 1, 2022 10:55:24 #
manning5
Loc: Richmond, VA
JW wrote:
Why is the theory of gravity taught as a fact? Evo... (show quote)
As you said, their existence is obvious, and I suppose teachers need a first approximation explanation for both gravity and evolution. Several of the aids to teaching are in fact fallacious, such as the classic set of walking apes-to-man picture that adorns most biology books, and the moths on the tree bit. There are others, too, such as the attempt to show the formation and similarity of embryos across a number of species, which was totally rigged. Why they are still there I have no idea.
The main objection to macroevolution seems to be the situation surrounding the explosion of body types during the Pre-Cambrian period, that no prior predecessor forms have ever been found for any of the life forms generated. S.J. Gould tried to resurrect the situation with his "punctuated equilibrium" concept, but it is not satisfactory.
Feb 1, 2022 11:07:12 #
Manning,
You were "wrong" only twice; 1) in addressing me as "Sir" - I've always been a woman and intend to remain so, and 2) the nine year old I was thinking of was not my daughter, but me, as I first read the Bible through at the age of nine. I wouldn't have been frightened, but would have understood the implications.
My daughter's in her early 50s now, has traveled over much of the world, and I can't remember her ever fearing anything or anyone.
I have always had a preoccupation with seeking out authentic verifiable truth, as witnessed by the collection of 6,000 non-fiction, reference, religious and history books distributed in myriad bookcases and on wall shelves in every room in my eighty year old house (built by my father the year I was born), now usually precluded by an online search, as I've been MIA from that house for three years.
There is only one absolute truth to be sought out when dealing with physical reality: real people, real dates, real occurrences, irregardless of Post-Modern Academic Collectivism, Deconstructionism, Modernism, Minimalism and Poststructuralism.
That same truth is to be pursued even more fervently when the conversation and focus turn to encounters and interactions with spiritual entities.
This is from my Jan 2, 2014 18:55:44 posting on the General Chit-Chat (non-political talk) topic:
"Have you ever been visited by an angel?"
"I had placed myself in a position of potential danger, in Jerusalem, in late February of 1990, during the height of the 1st Intifada; I had someone drop me off at the beginning of one of the three trails at the top of the Mount of Olives, because I wanted to absorb the view and the general atmosphere.
Jesus ascended from that location, and when He returns it will be to the Mount of Olives.
The day before, a rider had been killed by a rock thrown through the rear of an Egged bus, which runs from their central station in Jerusalem to Bethlehem, which is only five miles south, and within the week, a tourist had been stabbed by an Arab youth, while walking though the streets of the old walled city in east Jerusalem, which I had walked through many times.
I started descending a trail, one of three beginning on the mount, that ends at the entrance to the Garden of Gethsemane, and was almost immediately accosted by an Arabian/Palestinian man gesturing with a box of beaded souvenir jewelry, intimating that I should make a purchase from him.
I shook my head, and held my hand palm up in refusal. He continued to follow me, and became more insistent in his demeanor, and obviously not willing to take no for an answer; at that moment, a gentleman appeared at my side, from which direction, I have no idea, he was just there.
He was impeccably dressed, wearing light gray slacks, a beige windbreaker, and white leather sneakers that looked as if they'd (don't laugh) never touched the ground.
He said something in Arabic, in a sharp tone of voice to the Arab Palestinian pursuing me, and he turned immediately, and began reascending the hill.
This gentleman continued to walk beside me, conversing in perfect English, and as we descended, we encountered three different small groups of tourist/pilgrimage people, (who had enough sense not to walk alone) in twos or threes, ascending the hill. He greeted each of these groups in a different language.
One, I recognized as German, one was Scandinavian, and the third, possibly Portuguese.
When we reached the entrance to the Garden of Gethsemane, I turned to thank him, and asked his name. He said, "my name is Michael."
My friends drove up just then to pick me up, as we'd agreed.
That night, drifting toward sleep, and pulling a quilt up around my chin, because Jerusalem is still cold in February, and the apartment's space heaters weren't doing much for my bedroom, I suddenly sat straight up in the bed, and thought, "my Lord and My God," - he said his name was Michael."
Michael Stands Guard Over Israel. The earliest surviving mentions of his name are in 3rd and 2nd century BCE Jewish works, often but not always apocalyptic, where he is the chief of the angels and archangels and responsible for the care of Israel.
I never fear that quoting the Bible, or referencing it could be an embarrassment.
The Bible is historically accurate. Not one piece of the thousands of Archaeological discoveries throughout Israel and the Middle East have ever contradicted the Bible. They always confirm it - the names of rulers, kingdoms, events, wars, etc.
Unlike mankind, God is trustworthy.
You were "wrong" only twice; 1) in addressing me as "Sir" - I've always been a woman and intend to remain so, and 2) the nine year old I was thinking of was not my daughter, but me, as I first read the Bible through at the age of nine. I wouldn't have been frightened, but would have understood the implications.
My daughter's in her early 50s now, has traveled over much of the world, and I can't remember her ever fearing anything or anyone.
I have always had a preoccupation with seeking out authentic verifiable truth, as witnessed by the collection of 6,000 non-fiction, reference, religious and history books distributed in myriad bookcases and on wall shelves in every room in my eighty year old house (built by my father the year I was born), now usually precluded by an online search, as I've been MIA from that house for three years.
There is only one absolute truth to be sought out when dealing with physical reality: real people, real dates, real occurrences, irregardless of Post-Modern Academic Collectivism, Deconstructionism, Modernism, Minimalism and Poststructuralism.
That same truth is to be pursued even more fervently when the conversation and focus turn to encounters and interactions with spiritual entities.
This is from my Jan 2, 2014 18:55:44 posting on the General Chit-Chat (non-political talk) topic:
"Have you ever been visited by an angel?"
"I had placed myself in a position of potential danger, in Jerusalem, in late February of 1990, during the height of the 1st Intifada; I had someone drop me off at the beginning of one of the three trails at the top of the Mount of Olives, because I wanted to absorb the view and the general atmosphere.
Jesus ascended from that location, and when He returns it will be to the Mount of Olives.
The day before, a rider had been killed by a rock thrown through the rear of an Egged bus, which runs from their central station in Jerusalem to Bethlehem, which is only five miles south, and within the week, a tourist had been stabbed by an Arab youth, while walking though the streets of the old walled city in east Jerusalem, which I had walked through many times.
I started descending a trail, one of three beginning on the mount, that ends at the entrance to the Garden of Gethsemane, and was almost immediately accosted by an Arabian/Palestinian man gesturing with a box of beaded souvenir jewelry, intimating that I should make a purchase from him.
I shook my head, and held my hand palm up in refusal. He continued to follow me, and became more insistent in his demeanor, and obviously not willing to take no for an answer; at that moment, a gentleman appeared at my side, from which direction, I have no idea, he was just there.
He was impeccably dressed, wearing light gray slacks, a beige windbreaker, and white leather sneakers that looked as if they'd (don't laugh) never touched the ground.
He said something in Arabic, in a sharp tone of voice to the Arab Palestinian pursuing me, and he turned immediately, and began reascending the hill.
This gentleman continued to walk beside me, conversing in perfect English, and as we descended, we encountered three different small groups of tourist/pilgrimage people, (who had enough sense not to walk alone) in twos or threes, ascending the hill. He greeted each of these groups in a different language.
One, I recognized as German, one was Scandinavian, and the third, possibly Portuguese.
When we reached the entrance to the Garden of Gethsemane, I turned to thank him, and asked his name. He said, "my name is Michael."
My friends drove up just then to pick me up, as we'd agreed.
That night, drifting toward sleep, and pulling a quilt up around my chin, because Jerusalem is still cold in February, and the apartment's space heaters weren't doing much for my bedroom, I suddenly sat straight up in the bed, and thought, "my Lord and My God," - he said his name was Michael."
Michael Stands Guard Over Israel. The earliest surviving mentions of his name are in 3rd and 2nd century BCE Jewish works, often but not always apocalyptic, where he is the chief of the angels and archangels and responsible for the care of Israel.
I never fear that quoting the Bible, or referencing it could be an embarrassment.
The Bible is historically accurate. Not one piece of the thousands of Archaeological discoveries throughout Israel and the Middle East have ever contradicted the Bible. They always confirm it - the names of rulers, kingdoms, events, wars, etc.
Unlike mankind, God is trustworthy.
manning5 wrote:
===================================== br br I tha... (show quote)
Feb 1, 2022 11:41:56 #
Zemirah wrote:
Manning, br br You were "wrong" only tw... (show quote)
You did not address me, but I just wanted to clarify, your revelation fits perfectly into the sense of this discussion. Your experience, your perceptions and your detail fit perfectly. We are not suggesting that religious experiences are not welcome, they are. What we are attempting to avoid is an attitude of such impersonal certainty that it truncates discussion.
That anyone believes his/her answers are the alpha and the omega is a matter between him/her and God, not for this discussion.
Feb 1, 2022 12:04:56 #
manning5 wrote:
As you said, their existence is obvious, and I sup... (show quote)
I think that God has the power to use any means He chooses to accomplish His goals. Evolution is simply one means available. The evidence of evolution is overwhelming. As for the Cambrian explosion, that sudden appearance of types of life in the rocks is more understandable when it is understood that a billion and a half years of Earth's history have been thoroughly recycled by Earth's natural erosion processes and no longer exist.
Origin stories necessarily show an abrupt change from nothingness to populated life. When the stories originated, no other means was imaginable. Even today, we have no full understanding all of the physical processes involved in our history.
As for that GD Steven J. Gould, he has done more damage to archeology, paleontology and science in general than an army of idiots could have managed. The only thing important to know about him is his example of family money, and its ability to buy a professorship at Harvard.
Feb 1, 2022 15:29:49 #
JW, you wish to avoid "impersonal certainty"(which equates with "absolute certainty?")
Relativism and Absolutism are categories that are mutually exclusive and jointly exhaustive; the two categories form a dichotomy, and thus the rejection of absolutism is a necessary and sufficient condition for the embrace of relativism.
This means Relativity is in, while Absolutes are verboten... negating the possibility of an actual debate, therefore the term "discussion," - suitable for a like minded group?
You seek not religious experiences, which are locked in cement, but spiritism.
Spiritism is a religion, self-described as a spiritualistic philosophy. Spiritist philosophy postulates that humans, along with all other living beings, are essentially immortal spirits that temporarily inhabit physical bodies for several necessary incarnations to attain moral and intellectual improvement. It also asserts that disembodied spirits, through passive or active mediumship, may have beneficent or malevolent influence on the physical world.
Spiritism is an evolution-affirming religion.
What is the objective?
Relativism and Absolutism are categories that are mutually exclusive and jointly exhaustive; the two categories form a dichotomy, and thus the rejection of absolutism is a necessary and sufficient condition for the embrace of relativism.
This means Relativity is in, while Absolutes are verboten... negating the possibility of an actual debate, therefore the term "discussion," - suitable for a like minded group?
You seek not religious experiences, which are locked in cement, but spiritism.
Spiritism is a religion, self-described as a spiritualistic philosophy. Spiritist philosophy postulates that humans, along with all other living beings, are essentially immortal spirits that temporarily inhabit physical bodies for several necessary incarnations to attain moral and intellectual improvement. It also asserts that disembodied spirits, through passive or active mediumship, may have beneficent or malevolent influence on the physical world.
Spiritism is an evolution-affirming religion.
What is the objective?
JW wrote:
You did not address me, but I just wanted to clari... (show quote)
Check out topic: US Spy Balloon Crashes In Northeast Syria
Feb 1, 2022 15:55:24 #
manning5
Loc: Richmond, VA
JW wrote:
I think that God has the power to use any means He... (show quote)
====================================
I smiled as I read your post! I completely agree that God had all the ways he needs to accomplish His objectives.
And I smiled again when your blasted Gould!
My belief is in Intelligent Design, and three of its principles that are more or less contra evolution: 1. The Precambrian result, especially since no one can produce any forerunners, earth revolution or not (Meyer); 2. the mathematical impossibility of random combinations to result in any meaningful structures in 4.7 billion years (Dembski). and 3. the concept of irreducible complexity (Behe). I did read Walter J ReMine's book on evolution, and to me it was devastating for evolution. Oh, and I thought GD meant Gratefully Dead, right?
So let us agree to disagree here and move on. We can pick this up in a different thread, OK?
Feb 1, 2022 15:58:10 #
Zemirah wrote:
Hi Ricktloml,
Thanks for the information.
I have long understood that "Christian Scientist" beliefs are neither Christian nor Scientific, but had lost sight of it being pantheistic, and how closely it mirrors classic Gnosticism.
Satan seems to have no concept of originality, as all false gospels since Nimrod have closely resembled remakes of that original (after the Flood) Babylonian disaster.
Thanks for the information.
I have long understood that "Christian Scientist" beliefs are neither Christian nor Scientific, but had lost sight of it being pantheistic, and how closely it mirrors classic Gnosticism.
Satan seems to have no concept of originality, as all false gospels since Nimrod have closely resembled remakes of that original (after the Flood) Babylonian disaster.
I am not a practicing Christian Scientist. Their doctrine does both, "do not add to these words/nor take away from them". But the discussion of "Universal Mind| mirrors some of their teachings. God is always referred to as Infinite Mind first, then as Love. And Christ Jesus plays a lesser role in their doctrine. Your point is well taken, there is very little that is Christian/scientific about that denomination. And as God has pointed out...their is nothing new under the sun.
Feb 1, 2022 16:04:33 #
manning5 wrote:
==================================== br br I smil... (show quote)
Just watched a few more of Meyers lectures and Penrose lectures. Our only option is to proceed as originally discussed.
Feb 1, 2022 16:16:55 #
manning5 wrote:
===================================== br br The w... (show quote)
Very insightful. And something that most assuredly needs to be considered. And thanks to "Z" for grounding the discussion/raising awareness, (as you also pointed out.) Satan is the father of lies/among many other offices he holds. Most of all if you/we are looking for the TRUTH...there is no way you can exclude the Bible
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