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An AR-15 killed 26 people in four minutes at Sandy Hook Elementary: is that what the Founding Fathers had in mind for the 2nd Amendment?
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Dec 18, 2021 14:11:10   #
RascalRiley Loc: Somewhere south of Detroit
 
Barbancon wrote:
Do you know what false flags are and why they are staged?


Is your ego really that fragile that your need conspiracy theories to make you feel superior and smarter than the 99% that know what actually transpired?

Reply
Dec 18, 2021 14:32:20   #
WinkyTink Loc: Hill Country, TX
 
rumitoid wrote:
As visionary as they were in creating "the great experiment" called the Republic of America, could they have possibly seen 18 of the deadliest mass shootings in modern US history, or the almost weekly mass gun violence and daily homcides? Muskets were one shot. (Yes, there were a few developments of weapons capable of firing more than a single round at the time but they were not mainstream.)

Are they to be blamed for a lack foresight in the future capacity of firearms to kill many? Maybe we can go back and give them this list to contemplate when they wrote "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." (That word "infringed" is the problem. All the other Amendments, including the most important 1st Amendment, have had various needed federal, call it, infringements.)

Let them read this, all non-combatants:
Las Vegas, October 1, 2017 — 59 dead, more than 850 wounded

Orlando, June 12, 2016 — 50 dead, 53 wounded

Virginia Tech University, April 16, 2007 — 32 dead, 17 wounded

Sutherland Springs, Texas, November 5, 2017 — 26 dead, 20 wounded

Sandy Hook Elementary School, December 14, 2012 — 26 dead, two wounded, all mostly young children

Killeen, Texas, October 16, 1991 — 23 dead, 27 wounded

San Ysidro, California, July 18, 1984 — 20 dead, 16 wounded

Parkland, Florida, February 14, 2018 — 17 dead, 17 wounded


El Paso, August 3, 2019 – 22 dead, 24 wounded

University of Texas-Austin, August 1, 1966 — 15 dead, 31 wounded

San Bernardino, California, December 2, 2015 — 14 dead, 22 wounded

Edmond, Oklahoma, August 20, 1986 — 14 dead, 7 wounded

Okay, I think that is more than enough. I feel if they had this list that the 2nd Amendment would be far more restrictive, heavily infringed upon out of basic decency and the common good. But the Right thinks there is nothing to do about the epidemic violence of guns. On the Right they call it "the price of freedom." (That's our children they are talking about.)

The States have gun control laws--which is the best argument against their do-nothing attitude. Strict here and loose there is not control; it is chaos and ridiculous. Federal gun controls, universal for the nation, will help. Nothing we do will end the violence, yet we need to do something soon to at least lessen it. Please think hard about it. Merry Christmas.
As visionary as they were in creating "the gr... (show quote)


One note is that the Sutherland Spings shooter was cut down by a good guy with an AR.

My AR never killed a human.

I did sell it to some non-descript hoodie wearing, dark complexion person in the parking lot of a gun show in Waco, Texas about 3 years ago.

Reply
Dec 18, 2021 14:56:48   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
rumitoid wrote:
The misdirection is yours, and the Right's. Assault rifles to the general public need to be banned; their availability to the public is an assault on humanity.
Only American citizens who hold a current and valid Class 3 FFL can legally purchase and own an assault rifle.

Defensive Gun Use in the U.S.
All of the law-abiding citizens featured in this database successfully defended their liberties, lives, or livelihoods with the lawful use of a firearm. These cases are not based on hearsay, but on verifiable reports found through public sources.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, almost every major study on defensive gun use has found that Americans use their firearms defensively between 500,000 and 3 million times each year. There’s good reason to believe that most defensive gun uses are never reported to law enforcement, much less picked up by local or national media outlets.

This database, therefore, is not intended to be comprehensive. Instead, it highlights just a fraction of the incredible number of times Americans relied on the Second Amendment—not the government getting there in time—to protect their inalienable rights. Despite the limitations on data, these confirmed cases of defensive gun use help prove that the “good guy with a gun” is not a myth, but an integral part of American society.

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Dec 18, 2021 15:15:08   #
Jim Bridger
 
How ever, your argument lacks strength as gun deaths in America fall WAY down the list. Cars , knives, hammers, all are higher . Now if you want to really weigh in on mass deaths in America, then by all means, let’s discuss abortion. That leads the list by a long, long way.

Oh but wait, I understand that you don’t subscribe to that thought process

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Dec 18, 2021 15:31:59   #
RascalRiley Loc: Somewhere south of Detroit
 
Jim Bridger wrote:
How ever, your argument lacks strength as gun deaths in America fall WAY down the list. Cars , knives, hammers, all are higher . Now if you want to really weigh in on mass deaths in America, then by all means, let’s discuss abortion. That leads the list by a long, long way.

Oh but wait, I understand that you don’t subscribe to that thought process


The Christians opposition to abortion is recent. It was promoted to increase the political strength of conservatives by republicans.

https://www.rawstory.com/evangelicals-abortion/

When conservative leader Paul Weyrich and evangelical preacher Jerry Falwell created the Christian Right in the 1970s, they noticed that the abortion issue engaged right-wing Christians who might otherwise be uninterested in politics.

Basic manipulation. Some people are easily manipulated.

If you have been taught not to question religious fairy tales it is probably like shooting sheep in a sheep pen.

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Dec 18, 2021 16:13:05   #
Liberty Tree
 
RascalRiley wrote:
The Christians opposition to abortion is recent. It was promoted to increase the political strength of conservatives by republicans.

https://www.rawstory.com/evangelicals-abortion/

When conservative leader Paul Weyrich and evangelical preacher Jerry Falwell created the Christian Right in the 1970s, they noticed that the abortion issue engaged right-wing Christians who might otherwise be uninterested in politics.

Basic manipulation. Some people are easily manipulated.

If you have been taught not to question religious fairy tales it is probably like shooting sheep in a sheep pen.
The Christians opposition to abortion is recent. I... (show quote)


It was not until the 70's that abortion was made legal. The murder of innocent unborn children should always be an issue.

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Dec 18, 2021 16:29:37   #
RascalRiley Loc: Somewhere south of Detroit
 
Liberty Tree wrote:
It was not until the 70's that abortion was made legal. The murder of innocent unborn children should always be an issue.


Nice side step. And it would be much better if pro life was as concerned about children as they are about fetuses.

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Dec 18, 2021 16:32:00   #
American Vet
 
RascalRiley wrote:
The Christians opposition to abortion is recent. It was promoted to increase the political strength of conservatives by republicans.


Not true

The early Christian work called the Didache (before 100 CE) says: "do not murder a child by abortion or kill a new-born infant."[58] Tertullian, a 2nd- and 3rd-century Christian theologian argued that abortion should be performed only in cases in which abnormal positioning of the fetus in the womb would endanger the life of the pregnant woman. Saint Augustine, in Enchiridion, makes passing mention of surgical procedures being performed to remove fetuses which have died in utero.

1821 – Connecticut: The first restrictive law on abortion was passed, making it illegal for a pregnant woman to receive or take any type of “poison” intended for miscarriage. Contributing to this was the popularity of pennyroyal and other such drugs, which taken incorrectly or at too high a dose, caused death.

1860: 20 states had laws against abortion.

https://eastsidegynecology.com/blog/us-abortion-history-timeline/

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Dec 18, 2021 16:32:56   #
American Vet
 
RascalRiley wrote:
Nice side step. And it would be much better if pro life was as concerned about children as they are about fetuses.


And you bring up the common ELWNJ false talking point.

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Dec 18, 2021 16:42:18   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
RascalRiley wrote:
The Christians opposition to abortion is recent. It was promoted to increase the political strength of conservatives by republicans.

https://www.rawstory.com/evangelicals-abortion/

When conservative leader Paul Weyrich and evangelical preacher Jerry Falwell created the Christian Right in the 1970s, they noticed that the abortion issue engaged right-wing Christians who might otherwise be uninterested in politics.

Basic manipulation. Some people are easily manipulated.

If you have been taught not to question religious fairy tales it is probably like shooting sheep in a sheep pen.
The Christians opposition to abortion is recent. I... (show quote)
In the US, 63 million babies murdered in the womb since 1973, 1.6 billion worldwide since 1980, is "basic manipulation"? Is this some kind of sick joke?

Abortion Counter - real time

Reply
Dec 18, 2021 18:28:45   #
martsiva
 
rumitoid wrote:
There is a disconnect by posting an article I have read a few times about the Federalists Paper. Hamilton had no idea or clue about the enormous gun violence. Who cares what he thinks on the topic; his thoughts are useless today. May as well read a treatise on earth being the center of the solar system. Merry Christmas.


NO - his thoughts are just as important now as they were back then OR are you saying that what the founding fathers all said back then are useless today??

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Dec 18, 2021 18:31:04   #
martsiva
 
manning5 wrote:
So, you want to begin the confiscation of our guns by getting your toe under the tent with a ban on AR-15 type weapons? The crazies will merely shift to another type of gun, of which there are hundreds to choose from.

Your ban would not stop the use of other automatic weapons, even automatic pistols that are available. Thus, you will make similar sounds about banning all automatic pistols.

Then the scoundrels will shift to still other weapons, like shotguns, and your pleas will go out to ban them too.

The obvious goal you are advocating is ultimately a ban and confiscation of all weapons in civilian hands.

Do you see any problem with this? I can think of a number of problems:

1. The ban will not stop such events as mass shootings as weapons will still be available--hidden, stolen. or imported illegally. A large black market would arise quickly.

2. The ban and confiscation would leave every family vulnerable to attack, robbery, rape and death at the hands of well-armed criminals. An average of 2.5 million incidents where having a gun stopped a crime occurs each year in the US.

3. It is almost certain that out of those 2.5 million attempted crimes many thousands of murders or rapes or maimings would occur, unless they were stopped by a citizen with a gun, thus they are saving far, far more lives than are lost through mass shootings. This triage is hard to accept, but it is real. Guns save lives.

4. Ultimately, guns in civilian hands make insurrections more difficult when the people realize what is happening, and can temper the government itself from adventures against the people.

5. Finding the shooter-prone people before they shoot would be a positive approach. A highly difficult task, but it would save lives if successful.
So, you want to begin the confiscation of our guns... (show quote)


THAT is EXACTLY how they work!!

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Dec 18, 2021 19:02:07   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
In the US, 63 million babies murdered in the womb since 1973, 1.6 billion worldwide since 1980, is "basic manipulation"? Is this some kind of sick joke?

Abortion Counter - real time


Try and stay on topic, also have Vet do the same, if you want to rant abortions.. start another thread.. do not try and change the thread we are on..

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Dec 18, 2021 20:14:16   #
RascalRiley Loc: Somewhere south of Detroit
 
American Vet wrote:
And you bring up the common ELWNJ false talking point.


Explain ELWNJ. I am old

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Dec 18, 2021 20:16:20   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
RascalRiley wrote:
Explain ELWNJ. I am old


extreme left wing nut job

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