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A Pastor was arrested this week; we all need to be concerned
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Apr 6, 2020 15:30:28   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
bggamers wrote:
If you cant understand the reason then so be it good luck to anyone you come in contact with you

And you can't understand my reasoning because you look at things from man's perspective.

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Apr 6, 2020 15:31:50   #
Radiance3
 
Parky60 wrote:
A Pastor was arrested this week; we all need to be concerned
Like you, I am all ready to get back to normal, if there will ever be such a thing. But I also take the coronavirus seriously and you should to. Those who scoff at the seriousness of the situation need to think about this: Do you really think the NBA, Major League Baseball, NASCAR, the NCAA, the Masters and all other sports would shut down and lose billions of dollars if not for a real pandemic threat? Would entire nations impose absolute quarantines? Would major corporations close their doors? And would the President urge a virtual shutdown of our nation’s previously thriving economy during an election year if this weren’t deadly serious?

In adherence to “shelter in place,” most churches in the nation have closed their on-campus services to conduct services online. A few have remained open, but have taken extraordinary measures to try and protect the attenders.

My pastor of my own small church of less than 20 people is doing services online. Personally, I think that we should still be meeting because the Bible tells us that God has given us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control and that for me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But alas, there are others to think of like my pastor’s wife who has COPD, others in our church whose health is compromised, my wife, people in the communities we live, and my obedience to God to listen to my pastor. So, I think that he has made a prudent choice and I will abide by it. God will understand that.

But one such church that remained open is The River at Tampa Bay Church. To maintain an atmosphere that mitigates spreading the coronavirus – similar to the essential business that I work for supplying forklift truck parts – it required attendees to separate 6-10 feet from others, supplied hand sanitizer at every door for every attendee, spent $100,000 for a hospital quality air-flow system, and had every staff member wearing gloves.

This week, Sheriff Chad Chronister of Hillsborough County, FL actually arrested Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne for having conducted church services. Think about that. A pastor was arrested for having a church service. He didn’t sneeze or cough on people. He didn’t deny the virus was real and in fact, took great precautions to maintain social distancing. But he was arrested and taken to jail for opening his church. No one was forced to attend. The attendees arrived on their own and one wonders why those who attended weren’t arrested also? This case will set up a colossal legal battle as to whether the government at any level can tell a church, synagogue or mosque it cannot provide what to many, are essential religious services to its members. Think of it as there are essential products and services that feed our bodies. And there are essential church services that feed our souls with word, prayer, and fellowship.

But should the government actually arrest a pastor for having church? And if government can shut down a church now, when will some government decide that a church is dangerous because it believes what the government deems is wrong. If a church who believes the Biblical pattern of marriage of one man/one woman is considered discriminatory, will the pastor be arrested? If a church believes that men and women should have separate restrooms and dressing rooms and gender-separate dorms and showers at youth camp, will the pastor be arrested and jailed for not following what the government deems right?

While I believe the risks to public safety and life are real from the coronavirus, I also believe that we cannot and must not sacrifice our first amendment guarantees of freedom of religion, free speech, and freedom to assemble. I urge you to protect your family during these times, but be equally vigilant that government doesn’t become a deadly virus to kill our liberties and turn us into a police state.
b A Pastor was arrested this week; we all need to... (show quote)

=================
The real problem here is the Church, the Pastor, who also have to obey the mandate of the overall head of the land. That is from the president and down to the lower level of their responsibilities. If one violates claiming their 1st Amendment Rights, then all those who follow will do the same. The problem we are trying to solve will get worst.

What did God say about obedience?
Romans 13:1-2 says: "Obey the government, for God is the One who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the law of the land are refusing to obey God.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/readers/2017/05/25/bible-instructs-followers-obey-government/343857001/

This policy surpasses the 1st Amendment, on situations when it hurts the population.

WE as Catholics found other means to pray out of the Church, but we still are able to gather via FB celebrating Palm Sunday without gathering in the Church. There are ways to find solutions, following the rule of God, and following the rule of the government.

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Apr 6, 2020 15:47:38   #
Richard94611
 
Church is not essential,no matter what you say.

Parky60 wrote:
Shouldn't be anymore than what I've experienced where I work. For the most part they took the same precautions we're taking. Why don't you jump all over my place of work also? I know...where I work is essential so we and the people we come in contact with are expendable.

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Apr 6, 2020 16:06:31   #
Singularity
 
Parky60 wrote:
Consider bodily needs and spiritual needs. What you say suggests some things are essential to bodily needs. What I suggest is that Sunday worship of word, prayer, and fellowship is essential to a Christian's spiritual needs. Which is more important? Bodily essentials or spiritual essentials? My present and future are not of this world so I consider that spiritual essentials are more important. My essential bodily needs are temporal but essential spiritual needs are forever.

And if where I worship is adhering to the same or better protocols as an essential business, why can't my church meet?
Consider bodily needs and spiritual needs. What yo... (show quote)


Fine. If it is so important to you, more important than my life or thousands of other vulnerable people's lives, shelter in place there.

We can assist with armed guards so that none of you LEAVE until EVERYONE in attendance and present have either tested positive for the immune antibodies, have recovered from the virus as documented by other testing, or are sealed in a sterile, contained body bag.

Lacking adequate testing, we could just continue to enforce the mandatory quarantine indefinitely.

Thousands dead or you inconvenienced by the opportunity to worship without ceasing? You get a taste of Heaven, the rest of the world and I escape your imposition of a taste of Hell!

As I said, win/win!

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Apr 6, 2020 16:24:22   #
Singularity
 
bggamers wrote:
The business are considered necessary to keep the line of supplies going I have 2 son at this time still working they are required to have ID in their car and on their person showing the government approves them being out and on the job, me I'm on workers comp at this time or I'd be working at my job as a nurse in a nursing home. I have asthma/ high b/p/kidney disease I am 69 a prime target for this disease so I would probably be able to stay off the job the Governor of Georgia has officially shut this state down EXCEPT for the needed areas to keep the chain of supplies coming in and I pray this viruses life is short
The business are considered necessary to keep the ... (show quote)


Stay safe, my friend. And hold on tight to what sustains you. This week could get very ugly. And I'm afraid even that won't convince some...

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Apr 6, 2020 17:05:39   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
Searching wrote:
I have missed you, too!! You have often been in my thoughts. The present "upheaval".....so blessed to live in the woods I am. I am being EXTRA careful these days, after not succumbing to an aggressive form of cancer 3 years ago, this May. My surgeon says it is a miracle that I am here (and healthy, I might add), having originally been given a 0-1% of survival. It was not pretty. Faith and Grace, attitude with gratitude.

I'll try and not be a stranger. You be really careful out there.....
I have missed you, too!! You have often been in m... (show quote)


What a story here in that battle I am sure and ever elated over the results!!! Blessing answered!!! I so admire you...

Also very nice knowing you are more secluded living where you do... Not in the woods here but also not in main stream housing either..Our county has 536 confirmed cases with 3 deaths.. For this reason I have taken on an in home project between building my garden for the flowers to come and removing a wall go expand the room in size with an outside decking to follow when the room is complete..

Its fun and preoccupies me well enough.. plus am still able to work but certainly at a reduced case load right now... Don’t mind the break...🙋🏻‍♀️ << get more of this...😊

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Apr 6, 2020 17:17:07   #
America 1 Loc: South Miami
 
Parky60 wrote:
Consider bodily needs and spiritual needs. What you say suggests some things are essential to bodily needs. What I suggest is that Sunday worship of word, prayer, and fellowship is essential to a Christian's spiritual needs. Which is more important? Bodily essentials or spiritual essentials? My present and future are not of this world so I consider that spiritual essentials are more important. My essential bodily needs are temporal but essential spiritual needs are forever.

And if where I worship is adhering to the same or better protocols as an essential business, why can't my church meet?
Consider bodily needs and spiritual needs. What yo... (show quote)


Move into one large building and all of you stay in that building until this is over.
If that is not acceptable stay home and pray.

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Apr 6, 2020 17:42:01   #
Searching Loc: Rural Southwest VA
 
Quote:
What a story here in that battle I am sure and ever elated over the results!!! Blessing answered!!! I so admire you...

Also very nice knowing you are more secluded living where you do... Not in the woods here but also not in main stream housing either..Our county has 536 confirmed cases with 3 deaths.. For this reason I have taken on an in home project between building my garden for the flowers to come and removing a wall go expand the room in size with an outside decking to follow when the room is complete..

Its fun and preoccupies me well enough.. plus am still able to work but certainly at a reduced case load right now... Don’t mind the break...🙋🏻‍♀️ << get more of this...😊
What a story here in that battle I am sure and eve... (show quote)


Awww.....thank you for your sweet words. Call me....elated, feeling incredibly blessed, stronger in my faith than I thought I already was, getting up every day whispering "thank you". I learned the hard way that it doesn't matter whether the glass is half empty or half full.....only that you can always refill it. Went around forever saying "faith and grace, faith and grace" until that fateful day 3 years ago....and then I really had to look at it, really look hard at what it is I believed, because I honestly, in the beginning, feared I was not going to make it. Short of the long of it now....I refuse to let the coronavirus take me out. I'm in the process of making a couple of masks to wear tomorrow to the store. I'm so glad to hear that you're not smack dab in the middle of civilization, makes me feel better about your staying safe. You have quite a few in your county. That must make you feel a little ill at ease. While we have none in my county, Virginia has almost 3,000 confirmed cases and 56 deaths. Just a week ago, I think there were less than 1,000. I have to agree with you about those projects.....grand therapy!!

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Apr 6, 2020 17:58:13   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
How many times must I say that I don't understand why two locations, one a business that is maintaining accepted protocol to mitigate the risk of spreading the virus, can remain in business, while a church that is maintaining or exceeding the EXACT same or better protocol cannot remain "in business." Both are essential to the people they're serving.

Are you people stupid or do you just hate God that much? What don't you get?

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Apr 6, 2020 18:17:58   #
saltwind78
 
no propaganda please wrote:
Had it been a "church" with Black Liberation Theology" it would never have received this treatment for fear of offending the LGBTQ groups that attend the Marxist churches with a small pretend Christian touch added.


no, I don't think that you are correct, but it's possible. I certainly don't agree with all the political beliefs of some of these "black liberation churches" especially the anti- Semitism some espouse, but I don't believe they are Marxist. Black people have a real complaint about this country's past. A few centuries of slavery, and another of second class citizenship, and even today they have legit gripes about the way they are treated. The clergy has always had an important role in their politics, from Martin Luther King to Rev. Wright. That seems to be part of the Black culture. Sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes not so much.

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Apr 6, 2020 18:44:06   #
Redangel62
 
Parky60 wrote:
You don't understand Redangle...they've been deemed essential while churches are non-essential. Go figure.


I understand that is what has happened. I just dont understand why some on opp only notice and make a big thing about this poor pastor but not a word about abortion clinics still murdering babies . All unnecessary operations are supposed to be canceled. Abortion is NOT a essential buisness . In any eyes. Its 100 percent elective

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Apr 6, 2020 19:04:29   #
jwrevagent
 
Searching wrote:
While it is indeed a slippery slope when we start arresting pastors, for many of the devout, they heed their pastor's call, regardless of whether it might put them at risk or not. They don't question it because they feel it is an affirmation of faith. Just my opinion, mind you, but it seems almost as if these pastors who call upon their flock to attend church services, are more basking in the power they have over them, rather than for the purpose of gathering to worship. Essential, as you put it, is not the same as expendable. If you are part of those considered essential, then without your presence, there is a distinct possibility that should something go wrong, that service would no longer exist. On the other hand, attending services, expendable, because if you are strong in your faith, you don't necessarily need to be among others who believe as you do. It's a comfort to, but in the current pandemic climate, best to protect one another by not being in each other's presence. Just sayin'.....
While it is indeed a slippery slope when we start ... (show quote)


And is it not a shame that these people follow a man because they think he has more standing with God than they do? Because of Easter, the door to heaven is open, we can come boldly before the throne of God with praise, petition, and repentance-while it is nice to have the fellowship, you can have fellowship with your family-"where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them"-Jesus said that. What do you do when there is no church building with scheduled formal church services to attend? I personally have been in that situation-not that there weren't churches, just that there were none of my denomination. And so you pray, you study, you have some time alone with the Lord, and you keep the faith, and thank Him for the time you DID have, and ask forgiveness for not taking every opportunity for worship. Christianity is headed by Jesus Christ, not any man or pastor, priest or bishop. If it is not, it is not Christian.

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Apr 6, 2020 19:31:29   #
Singularity
 
Parky60 wrote:
How many times must I say that I don't understand why two locations, one a business that is maintaining accepted protocol to mitigate the risk of spreading the virus, can remain in business, while a church that is maintaining or exceeding the EXACT same or better protocol cannot remain "in business." Both are essential to the people they're serving.

Are you people stupid or do you just hate God that much? What don't you get?


I hate the ignorant audacity that allows you to feel you have any right to endanger others over this vanity notion of yours. It is clearly not a mainstream, informed or intelligent religious viewpoint.

Dude, as far back as the effing OLD TESTAMENT it is clear that contagiously diseased individuals, like lepers, or guys with unusual or messed up genitalia for some reason, were not allowed at worship services and that Godly persons would engage in hand washing and purity standards regarding personal contact with others.... Or be ritually restricted from worship services.

It seems the most crucial technical meaning of abomination is something like, "in need of washing...."

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Apr 6, 2020 19:43:32   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
Singularity wrote:
I hate the ignorant audacity that allows you to feel you have any right to endanger others over this vanity notion of yours. It is clearly not a mainstream, informed or intelligent religious viewpoint.

Dude, as far back as the effing OLD TESTAMENT it is clear that contagiously diseased individuals, like lepers, or guys with unusual or messed up genitalia for some reason, were not allowed at worship services and that Godly persons would engage in hand washing and purity standards regarding personal contact with others.... Or be ritually restricted from worship services.

It seems the most crucial technical meaning of abomination is something like, "in need of washing...."
I hate the ignorant audacity that allows you to fe... (show quote)

Then I am endangering others by continuing to work in my place of business that is considered essential while you sit on your ass at home reaping the benefits of me putting my life on the line.

Why don't we just completely lockdown the entire f**king planet?! That's what the globalists want anyway so they can destroy the world economy if they haven't already. That and bring in a cashless society and one world government. And don't call me crazy because if you're paying attention the MSM worldwide is openly talking about efforts to bring it to fruition.

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Apr 6, 2020 19:53:30   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Parky60 wrote:
How many times must I say that I don't understand why two locations, one a business that is maintaining accepted protocol to mitigate the risk of spreading the virus, can remain in business, while a church that is maintaining or exceeding the EXACT same or better protocol cannot remain "in business." Both are essential to the people they're serving.

Are you people stupid or do you just hate God that much? What don't you get?


Because a church is not essential... And anyone who needs a church for spiritual whatever isn't very tight with God...

Please note that not every business is open... Only the essential ones....

Do you think health clubs, gyms, and spas should be opened?

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