The Bible and OPP
Mar 9, 2020 22:10:15 #
manning5
Loc: Richmond, VA
0.0:- This is a repost of my two responses in the thread asking if Christians can now accept homosexuals.
0.1:- I believe it was the Big Bang that began my renewed interest in Christianity. This singular event must have had a cause, and its result was a magnificent show of the Cosmos.
0.2:- That cause was an eternal God who was Himself the Uncaused Cause. He created the heavens and earth and all the life on His planet, including Man and Woman.
0.3- The result was a universe in space and time which was tuned exquisitely in its physical constants for the advent of Man, hence its title of The Anthropomorphic Universe. By one count, over 32 key constants have been so carefully chosen that the minutest changes in them would destroy Man and much of the Cosmos itself.
0.4:- As Man multiplied from the first couple that sinned, Adam and Eve, sinning became rampant. God created His Son, Jesus to stand for all the sins of the people, and to offer them salvation, all in the name of God. Jesus became a Man, and as proof of His kinship with God He performed numerous miracles and preached the Gospel to large crowds during His brief life, before dying on the cross.
0-5:- Jesus selected Apostles to carry forward His message of salvation to the people. Their messages eventually became documented in what is now the Bible, authored by scribes after many years.
The Bible has been translated many times from the original scribing, and in some cases deviating from the original meanings, which causes deep controversies to occur. Indeed, whole books written to be included in the Bible have been deleted for cause--- 1 Enoch is a great example of what is called the books left out: The Apocrypha.
As many men do, I felt the need for a moral system to guide my life. The basics of such a system was quite obvious and necessary to me:
a. Honor my family
b. Do not commit adultery
c. Do not lie
d. Do not steal
e. Do not kill
f. Do not covet other's things
In addition, I felt a great need to find answers to the fundamental questions of our lives:
a. Why is there something rather than nothing?
b. Why the Universe, God and Man?
c. What is the purpose of the Universe and Man?
d. Is there an afterlife?
e. Does man have a soul?
One can go bonkers trying to find good answers to these stumpers, and it comes as a great relief to find in the Bible sufficient answers to quiet the natural anxiety I had contemplating the questions.
The OPP thread has been immensely educational! It has been a walk through both the Bible and variations on the themes of anti-religion. with consummate Bible scholars and fierce atheists and others trying for a win or a knockdown by applying their scholarship. It has been a whirlwind of Biblical quotes buttressing various claims.
By no means could I jump in and throw verses around as others have in the thread, for my knowledge of the Bible is simply insufficient. I come away from the thread unfazed by the Biblical debates and the issues I see as important to my faith.
So, in a show of relative simplicity here is my perspective:
1. The Bible exists.
2. The Bible shares with us the Word of God.
3. There are passages that are difficult to understand, and even seem irrational to most people.
4. Most passages are extremely important and readily understood.
5. For this thread, here are at least five of perhaps 21 passages that reference Homosexuality/Sodomy:
1) Leviticus 18.22 and 20.13;
2) Romans 1.27;
3) 1 Corinthians 6.9-11;
4) Genesis 19:5-7;
5) 1 Timothy 1.8-11.
Thus it is quite clear that God's Words are convincingly against Homosexuality/sodomy in all of its forms.
6. Christians have a choice; to follow the Word of God and be against Homosexuality, or to decide to accept it, in which case they are going against God's Words with ultimately a penalty of some major kind. Such persons could be considered to be non-Christians.
7. Those who accept Homosexuality wholeheartedly seem to be either agnostic or atheistic in their belief system, and they appear to be driven by rejection of the Bible and the Words of God it contains. They have developed a Worldview that is essentially anti-Christian.
8. Those "Christians" who simply tolerate Homosexuals and perhaps keep their negative views to themselves in order to be socially correct in today's world, are dodging the issue at their peril. They will undoubtedly be held accountable for their failure to follow the Words of God.
9. A much used tactic by anti-Christians is to make a furious attack on various sections of the Bible as being complete nonsense, and to attack the various authors and how their writings are either included or excluded by religious authorities at key points in the history of the Bible's development. They reject the idea that God blessed the developers and guided their decisions.
Most of us do not have the wherewithal to refute these attacks immediately, and react to them by going very silent in our faith, thinking all the while that there are answers to the attacks in the Bible itself if we only had the knowledge of Biblical scholars. Later, perhaps we do find some answers on our own, or with help from others.
10. A major debate in the thread has been whether the Trinity holds up to scrutiny, when many passages in the Bible imply that Jesus is not co-equal with God.
My simple view is that it is really up to God whether Jesus becomes co-equal, and I am quite content to wait and see. Whether Jesus is, was or will be co-equal does not alter my faith. Meanwhile, I will believe in the Trinity: God; Jesus; and the Holy Spirit; along with The Nicene and Apostle's Creeds.
11. Another subject I can relate to is Intelligent Design, which is a scientific endeavor to discover instances of design in nature. Obviously, as a Christian I believe in God as the Architect of the Universe and the Creator of all things. Thus, I see ID efforts following a path which must eventually lead to recognizing many of the works of God from a scientific viewpoint.
12. There are a number of Bible passages that should give every Christian pause. They relate to not consorting with evil people of all kinds. Here are three of the passages:
1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
Psalm 1:1
Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
1 Corinthians 15:33
Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”
0.1:- I believe it was the Big Bang that began my renewed interest in Christianity. This singular event must have had a cause, and its result was a magnificent show of the Cosmos.
0.2:- That cause was an eternal God who was Himself the Uncaused Cause. He created the heavens and earth and all the life on His planet, including Man and Woman.
0.3- The result was a universe in space and time which was tuned exquisitely in its physical constants for the advent of Man, hence its title of The Anthropomorphic Universe. By one count, over 32 key constants have been so carefully chosen that the minutest changes in them would destroy Man and much of the Cosmos itself.
0.4:- As Man multiplied from the first couple that sinned, Adam and Eve, sinning became rampant. God created His Son, Jesus to stand for all the sins of the people, and to offer them salvation, all in the name of God. Jesus became a Man, and as proof of His kinship with God He performed numerous miracles and preached the Gospel to large crowds during His brief life, before dying on the cross.
0-5:- Jesus selected Apostles to carry forward His message of salvation to the people. Their messages eventually became documented in what is now the Bible, authored by scribes after many years.
The Bible has been translated many times from the original scribing, and in some cases deviating from the original meanings, which causes deep controversies to occur. Indeed, whole books written to be included in the Bible have been deleted for cause--- 1 Enoch is a great example of what is called the books left out: The Apocrypha.
As many men do, I felt the need for a moral system to guide my life. The basics of such a system was quite obvious and necessary to me:
a. Honor my family
b. Do not commit adultery
c. Do not lie
d. Do not steal
e. Do not kill
f. Do not covet other's things
In addition, I felt a great need to find answers to the fundamental questions of our lives:
a. Why is there something rather than nothing?
b. Why the Universe, God and Man?
c. What is the purpose of the Universe and Man?
d. Is there an afterlife?
e. Does man have a soul?
One can go bonkers trying to find good answers to these stumpers, and it comes as a great relief to find in the Bible sufficient answers to quiet the natural anxiety I had contemplating the questions.
The OPP thread has been immensely educational! It has been a walk through both the Bible and variations on the themes of anti-religion. with consummate Bible scholars and fierce atheists and others trying for a win or a knockdown by applying their scholarship. It has been a whirlwind of Biblical quotes buttressing various claims.
By no means could I jump in and throw verses around as others have in the thread, for my knowledge of the Bible is simply insufficient. I come away from the thread unfazed by the Biblical debates and the issues I see as important to my faith.
So, in a show of relative simplicity here is my perspective:
1. The Bible exists.
2. The Bible shares with us the Word of God.
3. There are passages that are difficult to understand, and even seem irrational to most people.
4. Most passages are extremely important and readily understood.
5. For this thread, here are at least five of perhaps 21 passages that reference Homosexuality/Sodomy:
1) Leviticus 18.22 and 20.13;
2) Romans 1.27;
3) 1 Corinthians 6.9-11;
4) Genesis 19:5-7;
5) 1 Timothy 1.8-11.
Thus it is quite clear that God's Words are convincingly against Homosexuality/sodomy in all of its forms.
6. Christians have a choice; to follow the Word of God and be against Homosexuality, or to decide to accept it, in which case they are going against God's Words with ultimately a penalty of some major kind. Such persons could be considered to be non-Christians.
7. Those who accept Homosexuality wholeheartedly seem to be either agnostic or atheistic in their belief system, and they appear to be driven by rejection of the Bible and the Words of God it contains. They have developed a Worldview that is essentially anti-Christian.
8. Those "Christians" who simply tolerate Homosexuals and perhaps keep their negative views to themselves in order to be socially correct in today's world, are dodging the issue at their peril. They will undoubtedly be held accountable for their failure to follow the Words of God.
9. A much used tactic by anti-Christians is to make a furious attack on various sections of the Bible as being complete nonsense, and to attack the various authors and how their writings are either included or excluded by religious authorities at key points in the history of the Bible's development. They reject the idea that God blessed the developers and guided their decisions.
Most of us do not have the wherewithal to refute these attacks immediately, and react to them by going very silent in our faith, thinking all the while that there are answers to the attacks in the Bible itself if we only had the knowledge of Biblical scholars. Later, perhaps we do find some answers on our own, or with help from others.
10. A major debate in the thread has been whether the Trinity holds up to scrutiny, when many passages in the Bible imply that Jesus is not co-equal with God.
My simple view is that it is really up to God whether Jesus becomes co-equal, and I am quite content to wait and see. Whether Jesus is, was or will be co-equal does not alter my faith. Meanwhile, I will believe in the Trinity: God; Jesus; and the Holy Spirit; along with The Nicene and Apostle's Creeds.
11. Another subject I can relate to is Intelligent Design, which is a scientific endeavor to discover instances of design in nature. Obviously, as a Christian I believe in God as the Architect of the Universe and the Creator of all things. Thus, I see ID efforts following a path which must eventually lead to recognizing many of the works of God from a scientific viewpoint.
12. There are a number of Bible passages that should give every Christian pause. They relate to not consorting with evil people of all kinds. Here are three of the passages:
1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
Psalm 1:1
Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
1 Corinthians 15:33
Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”
Mar 9, 2020 22:25:51 #
Mar 10, 2020 00:57:09 #
Boo_Boo
Loc: Jellystone
manning5 wrote:
0.0:- This is a repost of my two responses in the ... (show quote)
This was interesting....thank you. If I may, Jesus' life was not all that short. Indeed, he would qualify as a senior citizen or elder. The average life span was 47 years during his time and he was 36 or so when he was murdered.
I am sure you are aware, from Jesus and through the 13th Century Hebrew Scripture was confiscated and destroyed. The first known decree directed against Hebrew literature is one of the emperor Justinian (553) forbidding the Jews to use "what is called by them 'The Second Edition'" (Secunda Editio, δευτέρωσις), the Midrashic, traditional interpretation of the Scriptures. The other interesting fact has to do with the New Testament or Apocrypha. For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Saul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). In the end, 27 books made their way into the canon: the four canonical gospels ( Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John ), the Acts of the Apostles, the fourteen epistles of Saul, the seven catholic epistles, and the Book of Revelation . So, my question, based on your thread, was this a "planned" action of G*d to eliminate what He had said or given to the Israelites and to some apostles?
Mar 10, 2020 01:17:56 #
Thank you. Your portrayal for the need of God is perfect. It is fitting and proper, the time when we come together. The time when the need for our God is greatest, as a result of the grief facing the world today. Call the Comforter who gives us healing, hope, and strength to go on. We count our blessings every day that we have the Comforter, the Holy Bible, the Word of God is always by our side.
Ephesians 6:11-18 King James Version (KJV)
11 Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
America is the luckiest country to embrace the faith in Christ while some countries are deprived of such. Many countries in the world are hungry for the love of Christ but don’t have the liberty to doing so. So, they hide seeking during their very difficult moment of their needs for the love of God. We are lucky to be living in the freedom loving country. It is a blessing because we are free to practice our faith.
Loving God, I pray for Your Divine mercy, to finally give your people relief from this plague. I pray that vaccine could be developed soon, to combat this dreadful virus. I pray dear Lord, please heal, protect and bless all of us in this most difficult time. I pray in the love of Jesus, Amen.
There are hundreds of thousands seeking to worship and have faith in Christ. But they’re not able to. Iran has vast majority of seekers, hungry for the love of the true God in Christ. They are not allowed to worship the true God who could offer them love, and comfort, and healing. But they hide and risk their lives many times, just for seeking the love of God. Dear God, with your Holy spirit, in Jesus name, please bless and keep them.
Ephesians 6:11-18 King James Version (KJV)
11 Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
America is the luckiest country to embrace the faith in Christ while some countries are deprived of such. Many countries in the world are hungry for the love of Christ but don’t have the liberty to doing so. So, they hide seeking during their very difficult moment of their needs for the love of God. We are lucky to be living in the freedom loving country. It is a blessing because we are free to practice our faith.
Loving God, I pray for Your Divine mercy, to finally give your people relief from this plague. I pray that vaccine could be developed soon, to combat this dreadful virus. I pray dear Lord, please heal, protect and bless all of us in this most difficult time. I pray in the love of Jesus, Amen.
There are hundreds of thousands seeking to worship and have faith in Christ. But they’re not able to. Iran has vast majority of seekers, hungry for the love of the true God in Christ. They are not allowed to worship the true God who could offer them love, and comfort, and healing. But they hide and risk their lives many times, just for seeking the love of God. Dear God, with your Holy spirit, in Jesus name, please bless and keep them.
Mar 10, 2020 10:54:48 #
Peewee
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Pennylynn wrote:
This was interesting....thank you. If I may, Jesu... (show quote)
The Dead Sea Scrolls still exist, written in Hebrew before Jesus and the destruction of the second temple. If you want to know what they say you probably don't need a translator, I do. The nice thing is they are being translated and people can find and read them. The Torah or OT is pretty much accurate to this day. Nothing has been lost. But they do include a lot of additional info. Well worth finding and reading. I just don't know what took so long in getting the info out to the public? You would think it could have happened a lot faster.
Mar 10, 2020 11:58:36 #
manning5 wrote:
0.0:- This is a repost of my two responses in the ... (show quote)
Amen and Amen thanks you for this article and viewpoint.👍👍👍👍👍
Mar 10, 2020 23:57:22 #
Mar 11, 2020 00:06:00 #
manning5
Loc: Richmond, VA
Pennylynn wrote:
This was interesting....thank you. If I may, Jesu... (show quote)
Pennylynn, I haven't the slightest idea how to answer your question. Your knowledge of the Bible and its origins is far and away above my poor head. On the face of it, though, I would venture that God did not go back on His word to anyone. Perhaps men did not understand...
Thank you for your response, and God Bless!
Mar 11, 2020 00:08:19 #
manning5
Loc: Richmond, VA
Radiance3 wrote:
i Thank you. Your portrayal for the need of God ... (show quote)
I say Amen to that, and I appreciate your comment.
Mar 11, 2020 00:09:50 #
manning5
Loc: Richmond, VA
bahmer wrote:
Amen and Amen thanks you for this article and viewpoint.👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you Bahmer, and God Bless!
Mar 11, 2020 00:18:47 #
manning5
Loc: Richmond, VA
Peewee wrote:
The Dead Sea Scrolls still exist, written in Hebre... (show quote)
I read some time ago that the scrolls were written by Essenes and many were reflected in the Bible, but that is as far as I went down that path. It would indeed be interesting to read the full translations. Thanks for your comment.
Mar 11, 2020 00:31:17 #
Boo_Boo
Loc: Jellystone
manning5 wrote:
Pennylynn, I haven't the slightest idea how to answer your question. Your knowledge of the Bible and its origins is far and away above my poor head. On the face of it, though, I would venture that God did not go back on His word to anyone. Perhaps men did not understand...
Thank you for your response, and God Bless!
Thank you for your response, and God Bless!
Fair enough, thank you for responding.
Mar 14, 2020 23:37:40 #
Mar 15, 2020 01:20:17 #
manning5 wrote:
0.0:- This is a repost of my two responses in the ... (show quote)
==============
I'd like to focus my attention on number 10. I believe in the "Holy Trinity." The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I pray the Nicene Greed every Sunday, and the Apostles' Creed daily. But I ponder a lot of times, about these lines in the Nicene Creed; John 1:1-2; John 14:1-2; and John 14:8.
My thought is this. That God the Father, Jesus , and the Holy Spirit is One.
The Nicene Creed, 2nd paragraph.
"I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;"
Another relevant reason why Jesus is also God the Father.
John 1:1-2
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.
Then in John 14:1-2
[1] "Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in me.
[2] In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you.
On John 14-8, Philip said Lord, show us the father, and it will be enough for us.
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’. 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
So, my though is Jesus and the Father are one, but confuses me. All I do is trust and the Nicene Creed summarizes them all.
Perhaps you have your ways interpreting those verses. What do you think?
Mar 15, 2020 01:44:13 #
manning5 wrote:
0.0:- This is a repost of my two responses in the ... (show quote)
===============
On your # 7, you wrote various lines about homosexuality. I've came across so many links reported on the IT, YouTube, prepared and written by various homosexuals or LGBT's, attacking the Catholic Church. They are so gruesome and savagely written that they released their hatred towards the Catholic Church so grotesques, and sensationally exaggerated to catch attention of readers. Most of them are lies and filled with hatred.
The Catholic Church never recognize LGBT's as admissible in the church. They could not marry in the Church. They could not take the Holy Eucharist. And homosexuality is never allowed practice and as far as Catholics are concerned, LGBT practices are considered a mortal sin, in the Catholic faith,
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.