mcjwelles

Conservative and Liberal have wider meaning than simply political- They speak to a WAY of thinking about the world around us. However, the teachings of, say, 'turn the other cheek', 'you are your brother's keeper', 'judgement is mine sayeth the Lord', 'He who is without sin shall cast the first stone', 'Love thy neighbor as thy self', the rich man and the eye of the needle and such are examples of a pretty liberal bias- to say the least!
Example:
10000 years ago a bunch of kids ware playing out in the veldt. A rustle of grass, a flash of yellow and >POOF< Ignatz is gone!

After that a couple of those children ran like hell whenever the grass rustled- a pretty good survival strategy (conservatively) assuming that what has come before will likely come again. Quite reasonable.

Some others, with the identical experience, might check it out instead- perhaps finding it to be only a zephyr of wind this time, a flock of birds perhaps or a tasty antelope. More risk perhaps but also maybe more to gain.

We all sit somewhere along that line. Other bio-forms that become overly conservative- less open to novelty, finally less adaptable- go extinct as their environment (inevitably) changes.

Conservativism slows change, which can be advantageous in a culture too ready to disregard all traditional beliefs, whereas Progressivism is inherently innovative- sometimes with wonderful results but sometimes not.

There is a constant dialogue which is to be nurtured- not reviled.

Politically, Conservatism is the authoritarian branch with the dogmatic rules of conduct. More homogenous culture, more centralized and inherited power, less interested in individualism, say civil rights, xenophobia. Us and Them.

Liberalism, on the other hand, is more about individual freedoms, embracing 'different', and produces societies, as our own, based on such unlikely utopian idealism as is prominent in our Bill of Rights, our Constitution.

These comments merely flesh out a little the dictionary definitions of the two words.

Nickolai

No I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is the problems we face began in the 1970's and is a long term structural problem It actually began during the Carter administration when railroads,trucking ,the airlines were de -regulated, the modern conservative movement that began as a backlash to the anti war protesters gathered momentum during the 1970's and the resurrection of the right became manifest with the election of Ronald Reagan. Reagan filled his administration with big wall street capitalist and Wall Street re-gained the power they had lost when FDR took office in 1933. They saw to it that the regulators didn't regulate while they attacked the FDR New Deal and began un winding the legislation that had stabilized the banking system for 50 years the longest period stability by a factor of 10 by 2000 the last of the pieces was in place when the Commodities Futures Modernization Act was passed by the Republican congress and signed into law by Bill Clinton, Eight years later the financial services industry collapsed.

And you expect President Obama to fix all of the mistakes of the modern conservative movement. The New Deal coalition collapsed around 1973 and the nation began moving in the direction that the conservative movement desired. Obama is the first Progressive President since Richard Nixon and he is saddled with a House of Representatives that keep blocking every thing and writing increasingly toxic bills while the Republicans I the Senate have filibustered 307 times a record not even imagined 15 20 years ago and you expect Obama to fix our problems. Gime a Break!!!

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

You really haven't looked very hard, for historical evidence, have you?

For centuries, those who deny the truth of God's word have claimed there is no reliable proof of Jesus' existence in non-Christian sources.

They were wrong.

First, if the New Testament record is unreliable, there is no ability to accurately or reliably know the truth of any ancient historical event.

We have more manuscripts, earlier manuscripts, better written manuscripts, and manuscripts authored by more eye witnesses close to the events than any other written piece of ancient history.

Archaeology continually confirms the truth of the historical facts detailed in the New Testament (Hebrew: Bri't Hadashah; Arabic: Injil).

Archaeologists have not, to this day discovered anything that contradicts
what is written within it's Scriptures.

Secular historical sources are, and always have been available.

As Jesus, himself said, "I did not do these things in a vacuum."

Tacitus, the First-century Roman historian who is considered one of the most accurate historians of the ancient world, wrote from the perspective of a Roman, who is required to worship the Emperor as God, and to also worship the other gods and religions Rome acknowledged. He wrote an account of the great fire in Rome attributed to Emperor Nero:

"Consequently to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures of a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus (Latin for Christ), from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius, at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition (the resurrection of Jesus), thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular." (Annals 15:44)

Suetonius, chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian, left two important passages:

"Because the Jews at Rome caused continuous disturbances at the instigation of Christus he expelled them from the city." (Claudius, 25)

"After the great fire at Rome... Punishments were also inflicted on the Christians, a sect professing a new and mischievious (resurrection of Jesus) religious belief." (Nero, 16)

Historian, Thallus wrote in 52 A.D. in the third book of his History, of the darkness upon the earth following the crucifixion of Jesus:

"On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down."

This is the same darkness described in Luke 23: 44-45.

Ancient government officials whose positions put them in unique positions to have official information unavailable to the public also wrote of Jesus and the Christians who worshiped him:

Pliny the Younger, a Roman author and Administrator wrote a letter to Emperor Trajan describing the early Christian worship practices:

They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to do any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate , and then reassemble to partake of food, but food of an ordinary and innocent kind." (Letters 10-96)

Emperor Trajan, in response to Pliny's letter, gives the following guidelines for punishing Christians:

"No search should be made for these people; When they are denounced
and found guilty they must be punished; with the restriction, however; that when the party denies himself to be a Christian, and shall give proof that he is not ( that is by adoring our gods) he shall be pardoned on the ground of repentance, even though he may have formerly incurred suspicion." (ibid, 10-97)

The evidence is there, for those who have eyes to see.

Two of my main sources are:

Evidence That Demands A Verdict, by Josh McDowell
Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics, by Norman L. Geisler

I have two more pages of historical references, but no more time at present.

docwill

@claus com Stauffenburg: Thank-you for taking the time to refute the OP. btw, they are not "liberals," they're "Leftists," and responding to their lies, distortions and historic revisionisms is usually not worth the time or effort in a little blog with zero influence. But we greatly appreciate somebody laying it out since, being fairly adolescent, Leftists equate non-response as acquiescence.

Do they really believe their bullshit?

Nickolai

I'm familiar with all of that all of it comes from Christian apologists or Theologians with an agenda but the fact is no evidence that could be presented in a court of law since there is not the slightest evidence to support a historical Jesus. The evidence apologist present is all based on hear say. Not admissible. Archeologist haven't discovered any evidence that contradicts what is written in the bible but neither have they discovered credible evidence that would confirm what's written. Not only does no one know who wrote the gospels. None of the them existed during the time of Jesus.

Early Archaeologist came to sites with a Bible in onec hand and a shovel in thec other. Scientific methods have largely discounted earlier claims

Israeli Archaeologist's Israel Finkelstine and Neil Asher Silberman argue that crucial evidence (or a telling lack of evidence) at digs in Israel, Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon has led them to the conclusion that the tales of patriarchs such as Abraham are largely legends and that there is good reason to believe that the Exodus never happened. Had 600,000 migrants wandered into the dessert for 40 years, evidence of their passage would be abundant and there is not a shred of evidence. And that there is no evidence in the Egyptian documentation of any large group of slaves of any ethnicity leaving Egypt or of an Egyptian army being swallowed up in the red sea.

Finkelstine and Silberman show that Israel formed out of the indigenous Canaanite population, probably during the early iron age. In fact they have concluded that the first four books of the Bible were complete fabrications. That means there were no stone tablets and therefore no ark of the covenant. It's no wonder it's never been found. And dipictions of it are similar to Egyption funery sarcophagus.

There is evidence of a David but the powerful Kingdom described in Samuel was little more than a small village. Although Finkelstine and Silberman do explicity undermine the historical accuracy of the Bible, they are carefull to payt homagfe to it's value. They conclude by saying "we can at last begin to appreciate the true genious and continuing power of this single most influential literary and spiritual creation in the history of humanity.

The real genius and power are the scientist and scholars that painstakingly put together what really happened. and is a testament to what the human mind can produce when it does not delude it's self.

The Christian Religion was invented by the Roman Catholic Church and the Vatican is a city of sun worship. The Vatican and St Peters Square are are replete with pagan symbols of sun worship. The Egyption obleisk that stands in the square of St John Lateran is the largest in existance. Originaly carved during the reign of Pharaoh Thutmoses III It stood in the Temple of Amon in Thebes (Karnak) but was removed to Rome by emporer Constitine. The Obelisk is a phalic symbol and is meant to honor the sun God.

Here at the center of the Piazza or plaza also known as St Peters Square is an Obelisk shiped from Heliopolis to Rome by the Emperor Caligula. But is also used as the center of a sundial. It is claimed that that the word Obelisk literaly means Baal's shaft or Baal's organ of reproduction. The Crimson and gold Stole John Paul and all Popes wear bears the symbols Baal/ Shamish within the eight star of Istar.


The wafer Catholics eat and the sandwich sized wafer's the Catholic Cardinals pass around is the body of Christ And wine is the blood The suns rays glisten accrues water thus Christ walked on water. The Jesus story begins with John Thre Baptist who is the personification of the constelation Aquarius (The Water Bearer)

All twelve disciples are personification's of the 12 Constelations of the Zodiac and the one in the one year ministry of the Christ the Son (sun) passes each month through each one from winter to the spring equinox the summer Solstice into the fall when Jesus enters Jeruslem where Jesus is betrayed by Judas who represents (Scorpio) for 30 pieces of silver represenmting the 30 day's of the month.

Pontius Pilate is the personification of (Sagitarius) The Jesus story in the Bible never made good sense but as the yearly cycle of the sun in it's travels through the heavens it makes perfect sense.

Viral

Just a quick observation...

This all sounds very familiar... as if it were lifted from the movie Zeitgeist.

While the theory is plausible, I'm not sold on it.

Nickolai

Notice the statue of Peter and the sun swheel over his head. And a photo looking up at the dome of St Peter. And a photo of the Pope in the window notice the eight points of Ishtar above the windows. The Pope withthe Monstrrance.

The crown of thorns on the head of Jesus represent the suns ray's. There is much much more

Nickolai

I screwed up here is the st Peters sundial that marks on the pavement marking the winter and summer Solstice and the the spring and fall Equinox. and the Pope inthe window with eight points of Ishtarf in the Frieze above the windows

cant beleve Loc: Planet Kolob

[quote=Steve700]

He will re think this b.s. when the Otto Turks resume power under Sultan Erdogen. If he has his thinker still attached. :idea:

cant beleve Loc: Planet Kolob

Nikolai look at a new edition of bar magazine.... Biblical Archaeology and some investigating by Hershel shank..... My Sainai is real as is the Exodus.... get with the program.

cant beleve Loc: Planet Kolob

Mount Sinai auto correct

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

I first studied all this in detail beginning in 1980 (A.D.).

Criticizing the ancient paganism intrinsic within Roman Catholicism has nothing to do with the Bible, nor does it refute it in any way.

The last book of the Bible, Revelation, was completed by 96 A.D.

Jesus is the author and the finisher of Christianity.

Roman Catholicism began with Constantine in 312 A.D.

He was a bloody Emperor of Rome. He murdered his own wife and sons.

He did not actually convert to Christianity until on his deathbed, although he did use it throughout his reign to try to bind together his splintering Roman Empire, for such a large number of the citizens of Rome had become Christians by that time he saw Christianity as a tool.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

That's very well put, cant, there will be a lot of people reconsidering past actions as they run for their lives.

Ezekiel, Chapters 38 and 39 is shaping up quickly now, - and it will be just as God foretold it.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

You can't be this blind, Nickolai, without seeking deliberate blindness.

The historians and government officials I quoted were not Christians or theologians, nor did they ever convert to Christianity.

They were telling the truth as they had witnessed it.

The Bible tells us the stars were put in the sky as signs. They tell the story in God's video that the Bible tells, the story of our redemption through Christ.

During the great apostasy against God in Babylon, after Noah's flood, the false Astrological religion Nimrod established, while building the Tower of Babel, gave new perverse meanings for the planets and constellations, changing their meaning from what had originally been understood.

Matthew, James, Jude, Peter and Paul all wrote in the New Testament, and all were eye witnesses to Jesus crucifixion and resurrection.

There were 500 eye witnesses who saw Jesus after his resurrection.

Why do you suppose the Sanhedrin could not stop the new faith before it exploded? Don't you think they tried?

It's impossible to unconvince people who were eye witnesses.

vernon

these people are nothing but occupy wall st and they are all communist.a bath would terrify the whole bunch.