Conservatives have alway's been on the wrong side of History
Apr 10, 2014 01:29:37 #
Conservatives come in many colors, but none of them are is very tasteful. Mainly there two types. The professionals and the armatures
Neither type has had an original idea in hundreds (perhaps thousands) of years. Yet it's specifically because they are so stubbornly attached to a few very old ideas that they cause so much trouble. Simply put, they have great difficulties with change. But since change is the only constant in the Universe, that puts them in a prickly position: at odds with reality, and at war with the world.
As it turns out, one of the most important unique characteristics of our species, Homo sapiens, is the ability, willingness and, indeed, evolutionary advantage, of discarding established traditions and institutions in favor of something potentially much better. Thus, through discovery, learning, behavior change, experimentation, innovation, and (perhaps most importantly) cooperation, emerges progress. Yet each of the momentous advances in human culture were argued against by those in the tribe who wished to cling to the old values, the old myths. These are the conservatives. Thankfully, they eventually lose most of these arguments.
This very same tale continues throughout human history. We see social conservatives in every culture around the world and through the ages tenaciously clinging to hoary, old myths and customs, only to eventually be swept aside by the inexorable tide of the true human spirit: the impetus toward discovery and growth. Conservatives were the last to give up loyalty to Zeus, Thor and the Flat Earth. Many of them still think the world is 6,000 years old, and want to teach this in public school. Often the collision between the old guard and advanced thinking turns violent. We see this in the crucifixion of Jesus, the American Revolutionary War, the Civil War, and Taliban Afghanistan. In these conflicts, guess who is the villain... yep, it's always the conservatives... those who desperately want to hold on to the bad, old ways!
Conservatives are highly suspicious of social or economy-shifting technologies and paradigms. The conservative aristocracy fought against the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, even the Industrial Revolution. And never forget they were against the American Revolution Conservatives were against public education, Native American rights, emancipation of the s***es, women's suffrage, and civil rights for all. They balked at the horseless carriage, the computer and the internet, and today scorn environmentally-friendly industries, renewable energy, policies to reverse g****l w*****g, and more efficient light bulbs... all in defense of their increasingly obsolete ways of life. Despite their howls of protest, however, though it may take time, in almost every case, the more innovative, progressive, technology and ideology wins out.
It's a bit strange that these relics of the bad-old days are even still around. It would seem logical that by now they would have learned the lessons of history and gotten on board the wondrous train of progress. But rationality is not a property abundantly present in conservative ideology. Indeed, to the makers and believers of myths, rationality is not a "traditional" value. Not that conservatives are necessarily stupid (though John Stuart Mill maintained that most stupid people are conservative). Indeed the myth-makers of the dominator hierarchy are diabolically clever.
The myth makers are very differant than the myth belivers. They do not usually believe their myths because they know they made them up, and they know exactly how self-serving they are. So they continue to spout them over and over and over again, hoping that a certain segment of the public will gulp them down hook, line and sinker. They are hardly ever disappointed. There is never any shortage of gullible myth-believers out there, hankering for a fat myth that satisfies their appetite for selfishness, ignorance and fear.
The myth-believers remain willfully ignorant. It's easier to stay dumb about most things and allow gut feelings to rule. But broader knowledge and logic are not the only things missing from their mindset. Compassion, empathy and beyond-the-self/clan concern are likewise sorely lacking in the conservative worldview. Conservatives have a "me" rather than "we" orientation. Rather than rationality, rather than empathy, rather than true compassion, they defer to selfish emotionality, including strong currents of greed, fear and prejudice.
Under the threat of nuclear annihilation, sectarian strife, g****l w*****g, ecological catastrophe, exploding population, predatory capitalism and rampant consumerism, to survive as a species and bring peace to the planet, we must forge into an integrated and respectful human family, accelerate our discovery and nurturance of our commonalities and shared interests even while recognizing and celebrating our wonderful diversity. We must constrain those ideologies that promote division, distrust, greed, fear and self-assumed superiorities over the rest of humankind. Standing in stark and determined opposition to this higher evolution of humankind, as always, are the conservatives... and their myths
Neither type has had an original idea in hundreds (perhaps thousands) of years. Yet it's specifically because they are so stubbornly attached to a few very old ideas that they cause so much trouble. Simply put, they have great difficulties with change. But since change is the only constant in the Universe, that puts them in a prickly position: at odds with reality, and at war with the world.
As it turns out, one of the most important unique characteristics of our species, Homo sapiens, is the ability, willingness and, indeed, evolutionary advantage, of discarding established traditions and institutions in favor of something potentially much better. Thus, through discovery, learning, behavior change, experimentation, innovation, and (perhaps most importantly) cooperation, emerges progress. Yet each of the momentous advances in human culture were argued against by those in the tribe who wished to cling to the old values, the old myths. These are the conservatives. Thankfully, they eventually lose most of these arguments.
This very same tale continues throughout human history. We see social conservatives in every culture around the world and through the ages tenaciously clinging to hoary, old myths and customs, only to eventually be swept aside by the inexorable tide of the true human spirit: the impetus toward discovery and growth. Conservatives were the last to give up loyalty to Zeus, Thor and the Flat Earth. Many of them still think the world is 6,000 years old, and want to teach this in public school. Often the collision between the old guard and advanced thinking turns violent. We see this in the crucifixion of Jesus, the American Revolutionary War, the Civil War, and Taliban Afghanistan. In these conflicts, guess who is the villain... yep, it's always the conservatives... those who desperately want to hold on to the bad, old ways!
Conservatives are highly suspicious of social or economy-shifting technologies and paradigms. The conservative aristocracy fought against the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, even the Industrial Revolution. And never forget they were against the American Revolution Conservatives were against public education, Native American rights, emancipation of the s***es, women's suffrage, and civil rights for all. They balked at the horseless carriage, the computer and the internet, and today scorn environmentally-friendly industries, renewable energy, policies to reverse g****l w*****g, and more efficient light bulbs... all in defense of their increasingly obsolete ways of life. Despite their howls of protest, however, though it may take time, in almost every case, the more innovative, progressive, technology and ideology wins out.
It's a bit strange that these relics of the bad-old days are even still around. It would seem logical that by now they would have learned the lessons of history and gotten on board the wondrous train of progress. But rationality is not a property abundantly present in conservative ideology. Indeed, to the makers and believers of myths, rationality is not a "traditional" value. Not that conservatives are necessarily stupid (though John Stuart Mill maintained that most stupid people are conservative). Indeed the myth-makers of the dominator hierarchy are diabolically clever.
The myth makers are very differant than the myth belivers. They do not usually believe their myths because they know they made them up, and they know exactly how self-serving they are. So they continue to spout them over and over and over again, hoping that a certain segment of the public will gulp them down hook, line and sinker. They are hardly ever disappointed. There is never any shortage of gullible myth-believers out there, hankering for a fat myth that satisfies their appetite for selfishness, ignorance and fear.
The myth-believers remain willfully ignorant. It's easier to stay dumb about most things and allow gut feelings to rule. But broader knowledge and logic are not the only things missing from their mindset. Compassion, empathy and beyond-the-self/clan concern are likewise sorely lacking in the conservative worldview. Conservatives have a "me" rather than "we" orientation. Rather than rationality, rather than empathy, rather than true compassion, they defer to selfish emotionality, including strong currents of greed, fear and prejudice.
Under the threat of nuclear annihilation, sectarian strife, g****l w*****g, ecological catastrophe, exploding population, predatory capitalism and rampant consumerism, to survive as a species and bring peace to the planet, we must forge into an integrated and respectful human family, accelerate our discovery and nurturance of our commonalities and shared interests even while recognizing and celebrating our wonderful diversity. We must constrain those ideologies that promote division, distrust, greed, fear and self-assumed superiorities over the rest of humankind. Standing in stark and determined opposition to this higher evolution of humankind, as always, are the conservatives... and their myths
Apr 10, 2014 02:10:21 #
It is not that Conservatives are afraid to make changes
but not just for the sake of change.
Conservatives highly value what has proven to be the most virtuous and successful approach to maintaining a government that will stand the test of antagonists who have devastated many other nations.
Liberals think that the U.S. is arrogant and needs to be taken down a notch or three; that U.S. history is filled with nothing but evil and any attacks on the U.S. are richly deserved.
Liberals think that the U.S. was founded by evil, selfish, h**eful white men who were only interested in their own power and didnt want to empower others. So, liberals want the founders memory eviscerated.
Liberals think that our capitalist system needs to be eliminated. In short, liberals value nothing about the U.S. except its tradition of self-actuation, liberty, and its freedom to re-make itself and they want to use that capacity to erase everything that makes the U.S.A. the U.S.A. Once that is done they want to build a U.S. to their own liking using the very freedoms they used to lay her low.
This is the aim of groups like the American Civil Liberties Union, Moveon.org, the Center for American Progress, Media Matters and other such extremist left-wing organizations. Even CAIR attempts to use America's freedoms as a weapon against her.
Sadly, these liberals think they are doing a good thing. The problem is that they are utterly wrong. If this country treads the left-wing path, the U.S. will not emerge a winner. It will be laid low just like the left wants, but it will not rise again. The left's prescriptions will lead to our becoming a third world nation. Yet, there is no doubt they really imagine they are doing good.
Conservatives highly value what has proven to be the most virtuous and successful approach to maintaining a government that will stand the test of antagonists who have devastated many other nations.
Liberals think that the U.S. is arrogant and needs to be taken down a notch or three; that U.S. history is filled with nothing but evil and any attacks on the U.S. are richly deserved.
Liberals think that the U.S. was founded by evil, selfish, h**eful white men who were only interested in their own power and didnt want to empower others. So, liberals want the founders memory eviscerated.
Liberals think that our capitalist system needs to be eliminated. In short, liberals value nothing about the U.S. except its tradition of self-actuation, liberty, and its freedom to re-make itself and they want to use that capacity to erase everything that makes the U.S.A. the U.S.A. Once that is done they want to build a U.S. to their own liking using the very freedoms they used to lay her low.
This is the aim of groups like the American Civil Liberties Union, Moveon.org, the Center for American Progress, Media Matters and other such extremist left-wing organizations. Even CAIR attempts to use America's freedoms as a weapon against her.
Sadly, these liberals think they are doing a good thing. The problem is that they are utterly wrong. If this country treads the left-wing path, the U.S. will not emerge a winner. It will be laid low just like the left wants, but it will not rise again. The left's prescriptions will lead to our becoming a third world nation. Yet, there is no doubt they really imagine they are doing good.
Apr 10, 2014 05:27:30 #
J Anthony
Loc: Connecticut
Left -wing, right-wing, broken wing- the first 2 posts mirror eachother perfectly. Since we can't even agree on what "reality" is any more, one side will be proved closer to right and the other closer to wrong, in time.
Apr 10, 2014 05:50:18 #
[quote=Nickolai]
These are the conservatives. Thankfully, they eventually lose most of these arguments.
We see this in the crucifixion of Jesus, the American Revolutionary War, the Civil War, and Taliban Afghanistan. In these conflicts, guess who is the villain... yep, it's always the conservatives.
Conservatives have a "me" rather than "we" orientation.
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What a bull s**t rant of poppycock. Practically everything you say about conservatives is more true of liberals. But then that is the Alinsky method "accuse them of what you do". Everything you say is back ass word. You sound like a c*******t that doesn't realize that by and large America throughout history has been fulfilling its noble destiny of service to the world. You say that we lose most of the arguments. It's hard for us to even get you to debate with us and you're always using those political correctness tactics to avoid debate. "Just call them a r****t; that'll shut them up". And now the conservatives are the ones responsible for k*****g Jesus/ ?? ??? and what do you have against the Revolutionary war that was to stop the English from subjugating us. And where were the conservatives wrong in trying to hold the union together and free the s***es which was the reason for the Civil War. Did you know the KKK was started by the Democrats and was the enforcement arm for the Democratic Party and that Lincoln and MLK were both registered Republicans? You forgot to blame us for dropping the atom bomb which saved far more lives of many different nationalities than it took. And now you're comparing crazy Taliban Muslims to American conservatives? You are nuts! And what do you do - you partner up with Islam to go against the conservative and the Christians being when we are the ones that are trying to save you from Islam (and the thanks we get is to be called Islamaphobes) instead of learning about Islam from reliable sources. You believe the bull s**t the Muslims tell you when the fact of the matter is the reason Islam is called the "religion of peace" is because that's their agenda. To wipe out every other religion, political system and culture then and only then does the Koran tell them that there will be world peace; it is a s*********t ideology just like N**i-ism and every bit as evil. You know that no democracy has ever attacked another democracy? ?? NEVER and what's the record of the lefties? Well I'll tell you - 120,000,000 dead in the twentieth century. (mostly of their own, at that) And you say that the conservatives have a me rather than a we orientation. I guess that's why it is a statistical fact that conservatives give far more to charity than the liberals who expect the government to do it for them. I could take the rest of your diatribe apart piece by piece, but this is already a long enough post and I really don't have the time for it.
These are the conservatives. Thankfully, they eventually lose most of these arguments.
We see this in the crucifixion of Jesus, the American Revolutionary War, the Civil War, and Taliban Afghanistan. In these conflicts, guess who is the villain... yep, it's always the conservatives.
Conservatives have a "me" rather than "we" orientation.
==============================================================================
What a bull s**t rant of poppycock. Practically everything you say about conservatives is more true of liberals. But then that is the Alinsky method "accuse them of what you do". Everything you say is back ass word. You sound like a c*******t that doesn't realize that by and large America throughout history has been fulfilling its noble destiny of service to the world. You say that we lose most of the arguments. It's hard for us to even get you to debate with us and you're always using those political correctness tactics to avoid debate. "Just call them a r****t; that'll shut them up". And now the conservatives are the ones responsible for k*****g Jesus/ ?? ??? and what do you have against the Revolutionary war that was to stop the English from subjugating us. And where were the conservatives wrong in trying to hold the union together and free the s***es which was the reason for the Civil War. Did you know the KKK was started by the Democrats and was the enforcement arm for the Democratic Party and that Lincoln and MLK were both registered Republicans? You forgot to blame us for dropping the atom bomb which saved far more lives of many different nationalities than it took. And now you're comparing crazy Taliban Muslims to American conservatives? You are nuts! And what do you do - you partner up with Islam to go against the conservative and the Christians being when we are the ones that are trying to save you from Islam (and the thanks we get is to be called Islamaphobes) instead of learning about Islam from reliable sources. You believe the bull s**t the Muslims tell you when the fact of the matter is the reason Islam is called the "religion of peace" is because that's their agenda. To wipe out every other religion, political system and culture then and only then does the Koran tell them that there will be world peace; it is a s*********t ideology just like N**i-ism and every bit as evil. You know that no democracy has ever attacked another democracy? ?? NEVER and what's the record of the lefties? Well I'll tell you - 120,000,000 dead in the twentieth century. (mostly of their own, at that) And you say that the conservatives have a me rather than a we orientation. I guess that's why it is a statistical fact that conservatives give far more to charity than the liberals who expect the government to do it for them. I could take the rest of your diatribe apart piece by piece, but this is already a long enough post and I really don't have the time for it.
Apr 10, 2014 12:44:40 #
Claus Von Stauffenberg wrote:
It is not that Conservatives are afraid to make c... (show quote)
Now there you go again, defining liberals on conservsative terms, Liberals don't think that the U.S. was founded by evil, selfish, h**eful white men who were only interested in their own power and didnt want to empower others. So, liberals want the founders memory eviscerated. The founders were educated men who considered themselves to be men of the enlightenment and though they struggled over what form the new nation should take they created a Republic with a Constitutiuon, Something the world had never seen, and what they were creating inspired the French people to revolt and replace the monarchy, Aristocracy, and Papcy rule that had oppresed the people for centuries with Democracy. Do liberals think that the
us is arogant and need to be taken down a notch or three that US history is filled with nothing but evil. The answer to that is, the American people like to think that the US has only good intentions and always strive to do good in the world. it makes us feel good almost saintly. But if one studies our history It becomes clear that this is a myth, I'll let it go at that. Do Liberals think that any attacks on the US are richly deserved. That's rubbish, the people do not deserved to be attacked. But Liberals deal with reality and the reality is that there is no mystery as to why some want to harm the US and why some view the US as an imperialist nation. Based on botched past foreign policy . It's called " Blowback " a CIA internal coinage denoting the unintentional harmfull consequences to friendly populations from coveret operatiions such as the Cia backed 1953 Iranian c**p de' etah that o*******w the Deomcraticly elected Mohammed Mossedeq and installed the Shaw Ressa Palivi'
Apr 10, 2014 14:36:48 #
[quote=Steve700]
I haven't called any one a r****t. And the character in the Jesus story was a liberal not a conservative. We American people like to believe that we are noble and have the best intention but the history of our actions of aggression in Latin America and around the word belies that fact. Liberals have nothing against the revolutionary war. The fact is it was conservatives that were against that war. They were called loyalist. Yes the KKK was started by Democrats. The south had been solidly Democrats since Thomas Jeferson. When the National Democratic party flipped from small government to big government intervention in the 1930's the south stayed conservative Democrats (Dixiecrats)
It wasn't conservatives that tried to hold the union together and free the s***es. The conservatives in the south beloved the States should be sovereign and have the right to nullify federal laws they didn't like and so seceded from the union to preserve their way of life including s***ery.
Muslim fundamentalist and Christisan fundamentalist have a similar way of thinking both are conservative, It's just that the Muslim Fundamentalist are rabid enough to blow themselves up to get their way The Tora, the Koran. and the old testament is the foundation of all three monotheistic religions and Orthodox Jews, fundmentalist Muslims, and fundalmentalist Christions share a conservitive world view.
The US has never attacked another Democracy true but the record of US intervention in Latin Amereica on Behalf of Wall Street Banks and US interprise around is extensive. Prior to the establishment of the UN it was called Gunboat diplomacy. After the UN was established after WW ll the CIA bvegan doing covertly what previously done overtly. Steve you really need to read some history books rather what youve heard or been told. There many good history books that could open your mind to reality
Nickolai wrote:
br These are the conservatives. Thankfully, they ... (show quote)
I haven't called any one a r****t. And the character in the Jesus story was a liberal not a conservative. We American people like to believe that we are noble and have the best intention but the history of our actions of aggression in Latin America and around the word belies that fact. Liberals have nothing against the revolutionary war. The fact is it was conservatives that were against that war. They were called loyalist. Yes the KKK was started by Democrats. The south had been solidly Democrats since Thomas Jeferson. When the National Democratic party flipped from small government to big government intervention in the 1930's the south stayed conservative Democrats (Dixiecrats)
It wasn't conservatives that tried to hold the union together and free the s***es. The conservatives in the south beloved the States should be sovereign and have the right to nullify federal laws they didn't like and so seceded from the union to preserve their way of life including s***ery.
Muslim fundamentalist and Christisan fundamentalist have a similar way of thinking both are conservative, It's just that the Muslim Fundamentalist are rabid enough to blow themselves up to get their way The Tora, the Koran. and the old testament is the foundation of all three monotheistic religions and Orthodox Jews, fundmentalist Muslims, and fundalmentalist Christions share a conservitive world view.
The US has never attacked another Democracy true but the record of US intervention in Latin Amereica on Behalf of Wall Street Banks and US interprise around is extensive. Prior to the establishment of the UN it was called Gunboat diplomacy. After the UN was established after WW ll the CIA bvegan doing covertly what previously done overtly. Steve you really need to read some history books rather what youve heard or been told. There many good history books that could open your mind to reality
Apr 11, 2014 00:51:02 #
YOU STATED: And the character in the Jesus story was a liberal not a conservative.
~~~~ This comment has absolutely no credibilityl. You can say anything you want about Jesus and label him wh**ever comes into your head, but I am here to inform you that the Scriptures reveal Jesus completely disassociated Himself from any from of politics. He made that very clear on several occasions by what He said and did.
Jesus the Christ, Emmanuel (God with us), the Messiah, is God incarnate who entered this world because of His love for us - to redeem all mankind who are lost in sin and separated from God.
~~~~ This comment has absolutely no credibilityl. You can say anything you want about Jesus and label him wh**ever comes into your head, but I am here to inform you that the Scriptures reveal Jesus completely disassociated Himself from any from of politics. He made that very clear on several occasions by what He said and did.
Jesus the Christ, Emmanuel (God with us), the Messiah, is God incarnate who entered this world because of His love for us - to redeem all mankind who are lost in sin and separated from God.
Apr 11, 2014 00:53:44 #
Isn't an "armature" part of an electric motor or generator? I know the language is changing but that just doesn't make sense.
Apr 11, 2014 01:14:43 #
In his rant above, Nickolai is demonstrating both psychological projection and revisionist history.
Apr 11, 2014 01:42:34 #
dennisimoto wrote:
Isn't an "armature" part of an electric motor or generator? I know the language is changing but that just doesn't make sense.
It seems to me the Character in the Jesus story was a radical Jewish Rabbi.
Wouldn't that make him a liberal by today's standard
Apr 11, 2014 01:56:14 #
J Anthony wrote:
Left -wing, right-wing, broken wing- the first 2 posts mirror eachother perfectly. Since we can't even agree on what "reality" is any more, one side will be proved closer to right and the other closer to wrong, in time.
Despite the myriad of political labels, when one boils it down, there are really only two types of people on this earth. The busybodies, who want everyone controlled versus those who have no desire to do so.
Apr 11, 2014 03:07:25 #
YOU CLAIMED: Jesus was a radical Jewish Rabbi which would make him a liberal by today's standard.
Webster on RADICAL: very different from the usual or traditional .
Generally radical is associated with political views, practices, and policies which Jesus shunned.
Jesus was not a radical liberal as you would spin it to make it fit todays standard. In fact, the enemies of Jesus - the Scribes, Pharisees , Elders, High Priests, and Teachers of the Scriptures of that day were the radicals as they did not practice and teach the usual and traditional teachings of the Scriptures. Instead, they ens***ed and extorted the Jewish people with false teaching and burdensome rules that aggrandized their positions and wealth by their radical, corrupt changes to the Word of God.
Jesus exposed their evil which precipitated their h**e and persecution.
Jesus was leading the way back to the traditional teachings of Scripture that focused on Him as their Savior from sin and everlasting separation from God in torment.
Webster on RADICAL: very different from the usual or traditional .
Generally radical is associated with political views, practices, and policies which Jesus shunned.
Jesus was not a radical liberal as you would spin it to make it fit todays standard. In fact, the enemies of Jesus - the Scribes, Pharisees , Elders, High Priests, and Teachers of the Scriptures of that day were the radicals as they did not practice and teach the usual and traditional teachings of the Scriptures. Instead, they ens***ed and extorted the Jewish people with false teaching and burdensome rules that aggrandized their positions and wealth by their radical, corrupt changes to the Word of God.
Jesus exposed their evil which precipitated their h**e and persecution.
Jesus was leading the way back to the traditional teachings of Scripture that focused on Him as their Savior from sin and everlasting separation from God in torment.
Apr 11, 2014 10:46:10 #
Claus Von Stauffenberg wrote:
YOU CLAIMED: Jesus was a radical Jewish Rabbi whi... (show quote)
If you believe Jesus actually existed historically can you prove it or do you just assume it because it makes you feel good to assume it. You must be assuming it because I've yet to see any historical or archeological evidence that would suggest any thing other than the fact that its is a fictional allegory that is based on the sun as it dies on the wintered solstice Dec 22 then is resurrected and rises on Dec 25 the third day one degree further to the north as measured from a shadow on a stick and begins it's one year ministry traveling through the 12 constellations of the zodiac (the 12 disciples) Each disciple all the characters in the Jesus story is a personification of the constellations and Jesus ministry last one year when the sun of God dies on the constellation crux (the southern cross) no longer seen in the northern hemisphere due to the wobble in the earths rotation. The word liberal is derived from the word liberty. The Jesus chiropractor in the allegorical story delivers a new way of thinking and doing from the senile genocidal maniacal delinquent God of the old testament stoning women to death who are found to be not a virgin on their wedding bed and k*****g children who talk back to their parents The Jesus Allegory is a prince of peace and teaches things that Christians never practice usually they practice just the opposite
Apr 11, 2014 10:47:00 #
Nickolai wrote:
I haven't called any one a r****t. And the charact... (show quote)
dam this is a nasty country i didnt realize how bad and vicous it is.i have been enlightened by all this bulls**t from a c*******t looking for a handout.
Apr 11, 2014 11:12:01 #
vernon wrote:
dam this is a nasty country i didnt realize how bad and vicous it is.i have been enlightened by all this bulls**t from a c*******t looking for a handout.
I've never had a handout in my life and never sought one I have had some kind of job sconce I was 9 years selling news papers on the side of a corner bar to cutting apricots. This country was nasty until the rise of the progressive era in the late 19th century early 20th century. Everything that's good in this country is due to progressives in both the Democrat and Republican Party. Yes there used to be a progressive wing and a moderate wing of the Republican but they became extinct like the dinosaurs. The far right began taking over that party 30 years ago and trhere nothing but batr s**t crazies in that party.
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