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Trump's impeachment unconstitutional?
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Oct 10, 2019 09:00:19   #
lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas
 
Ranger7374 wrote:
Let me begin with some words from Alexander Hamilton:

"There will be no jury to stand between the judges who are to pronounce the sentence of the law, and the party who is to receive or suffer it. The awful discretion which a court of impeachments must necessarily have, to doom to honor or to infamy the most confidential and the most distinguished characters of the community, forbids the commitment of the trust to a small number of persons."- Alexander Hamilton

"Who would be willing to stake his life and his estate upon the verdict of a jury acting under the auspices of judges who had predetermined his guilt?" -Alexander Hamilton

"It ought not to be forgotten that the demon of faction will, at certain seasons, extend his sceptre over all numerous bodies of men." -Alexander Hamilton

"But though one or the other of the substitutes which have been examined, or some other that might be devised, should be thought preferable to the plan in this respect, reported by the convention, it will not follow that the Constitution ought for this reason to be rejected. If mankind were to resolve to agree in no institution of government, until every part of it had been adjusted to the most exact standard of perfection, society would soon become a general scene of anarchy, and the world a desert. Where is the standard of perfection to be found? Who will undertake to unite the discordant opinions of a whole community, in the same judgment of it; and to prevail upon one conceited projector to renounce his INFALLIBLE criterion for the FALLIBLE criterion of his more CONCEITED NEIGHBOR?" -Alexander Hamilton.


These quotes were taken from Federalist Papers #65.


Basically the impeachment and recall from office rule was injected into the Constitution to be used for criminal purposes. It is a check on our elected officials to prevent "Treason, Bribery, High Crimes and Misdemeanors". Madison and Hamilton agree that an elected official must be impeached and removed through a full responsibility of Congress and the Supreme Court in impeachment concerning the head of the Executive Department, the President. All representatives involved in an impeachment, or impeachment inquiry have to be placed on record.

There have been investigations. Some of these investigations have been debunked. Some have not. From the time before Donald Trump was Elected until now, the Democrats and Trump's enemies have been trying to impeach Donald Trump. There are news broadcasts of allegations against Donald Trump. However none of these allegations have entered into a court of law. How can Donald Trump exercise his Constitutional granted powers and protections?

This push for impeachment is being decided by one faction of the American community, that community is called the 'far left', the liberals, or the Democrats. As history has shown in the past few years, they will not quit. This is their choice. However, We, the people and citizens of these United States, are watching this soap opera play out. Before you decide whether or not Trump is guilty or innocent remember that the president is still an American Citizen.

Now being an American Citizen first, he enjoys the protections of the Constitution in all cases. Which means he has the following rights:

First amendment-
Freedom of speech
Freedom of the press
Freedom of religion
Freedom of assembly
Right to petition the government

Second amendment:
Right to bear arms

Third amendment:
Protection against housing soldiers in civilian homes

Fourth amendment:
Protection against unreasonable search and seizure
Protection against the issuing of warrants without probable cause

Fifth amendment:
Protection against trial without indictment, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, property seizure

Sixth amendment:
Right to a speedy trial
Right to be informed of charges
Right to be confronted by witnesses
Right to call witnesses
Right to a legal counsel

Seventh amendment
Right to trial by jury

Eighth amendment:
Protection against- excessive bail, excessive fines, cruel and unusual punishment

Ninth amendment:
Rights granted in the Constitution shall not infringe on other rights.

Tenth amendment:
Powers not granted to the Federal Government in the Constitution belong to the states or the people.

Being president of the United States, he also has powers invested into him from Article II of the Constitution.

Now, to open this discussion remember what is written here in. Let's judge as Americans based upon the guidelines stated above: Should Trump be impeached? And more importantly, is the House of Representatives, representing us, the American Public? Are they legally and faithfully carrying out thier duties as they are bound by the Constitution to do? Is Trump? Let the games begin.....
Let me begin with some words from Alexander Hamilt... (show quote)


The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court presides over Senate impeachment trials, to ensure that the Constitution is followed and the rule of law preserved. The last two articles of impeachment, were passed with bipartisan support.

Reply
Oct 10, 2019 11:14:10   #
kemmer
 
Ranger7374 wrote:
Let me begin with some words from Alexander Hamilton:

"There will be no jury to stand between the judges who are to pronounce the sentence of the law, and the party who is to receive or suffer it. The awful discretion which a court of impeachments must necessarily have, to doom to honor or to infamy the most confidential and the most distinguished characters of the community, forbids the commitment of the trust to a small number of persons."- Alexander Hamilton

"Who would be willing to stake his life and his estate upon the verdict of a jury acting under the auspices of judges who had predetermined his guilt?" -Alexander Hamilton

"It ought not to be forgotten that the demon of faction will, at certain seasons, extend his sceptre over all numerous bodies of men." -Alexander Hamilton

"But though one or the other of the substitutes which have been examined, or some other that might be devised, should be thought preferable to the plan in this respect, reported by the convention, it will not follow that the Constitution ought for this reason to be rejected. If mankind were to resolve to agree in no institution of government, until every part of it had been adjusted to the most exact standard of perfection, society would soon become a general scene of anarchy, and the world a desert. Where is the standard of perfection to be found? Who will undertake to unite the discordant opinions of a whole community, in the same judgment of it; and to prevail upon one conceited projector to renounce his INFALLIBLE criterion for the FALLIBLE criterion of his more CONCEITED NEIGHBOR?" -Alexander Hamilton.


These quotes were taken from Federalist Papers #65.


Basically the impeachment and recall from office rule was injected into the Constitution to be used for criminal purposes. It is a check on our elected officials to prevent "Treason, Bribery, High Crimes and Misdemeanors". Madison and Hamilton agree that an elected official must be impeached and removed through a full responsibility of Congress and the Supreme Court in impeachment concerning the head of the Executive Department, the President. All representatives involved in an impeachment, or impeachment inquiry have to be placed on record.

There have been investigations. Some of these investigations have been debunked. Some have not. From the time before Donald Trump was Elected until now, the Democrats and Trump's enemies have been trying to impeach Donald Trump. There are news broadcasts of allegations against Donald Trump. However none of these allegations have entered into a court of law. How can Donald Trump exercise his Constitutional granted powers and protections?

This push for impeachment is being decided by one faction of the American community, that community is called the 'far left', the liberals, or the Democrats. As history has shown in the past few years, they will not quit. This is their choice. However, We, the people and citizens of these United States, are watching this soap opera play out. Before you decide whether or not Trump is guilty or innocent remember that the president is still an American Citizen.

Now being an American Citizen first, he enjoys the protections of the Constitution in all cases. Which means he has the following rights:

First amendment-
Freedom of speech
Freedom of the press
Freedom of religion
Freedom of assembly
Right to petition the government

Second amendment:
Right to bear arms

Third amendment:
Protection against housing soldiers in civilian homes

Fourth amendment:
Protection against unreasonable search and seizure
Protection against the issuing of warrants without probable cause

Fifth amendment:
Protection against trial without indictment, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, property seizure

Sixth amendment:
Right to a speedy trial
Right to be informed of charges
Right to be confronted by witnesses
Right to call witnesses
Right to a legal counsel

Seventh amendment
Right to trial by jury

Eighth amendment:
Protection against- excessive bail, excessive fines, cruel and unusual punishment

Ninth amendment:
Rights granted in the Constitution shall not infringe on other rights.

Tenth amendment:
Powers not granted to the Federal Government in the Constitution belong to the states or the people.

Being president of the United States, he also has powers invested into him from Article II of the Constitution.

Now, to open this discussion remember what is written here in. Let's judge as Americans based upon the guidelines stated above: Should Trump be impeached? And more importantly, is the House of Representatives, representing us, the American Public? Are they legally and faithfully carrying out thier duties as they are bound by the Constitution to do? Is Trump? Let the games begin.....
Let me begin with some words from Alexander Hamilt... (show quote)

Be that as it may, yesterday's FOX poll showed 53% of Fox viewers want Trump impeached and removed from office. I suppose we can expect a tweet storm from Trump about how traitorous and unfair Fox is.

Reply
Oct 10, 2019 16:51:04   #
Lt. Rob Polans ret.
 
bggamers wrote:
I personally feel that congress is abusing their position by changing rules to push their agenda. They are not doing the job they were elected by spending the American people's money in lawsuits and fake evidence actually they have already tried convicted him in a public venue they just can't push their agenda for sentencing so this is Guilty till we can hang you


And they don't have the names written down so I suppose we just go with the whole Democrat party. As I said though it's very unconstitutional.

Reply
 
 
Oct 10, 2019 19:19:02   #
Gatsby
 
kemmer wrote:
Be that as it may, yesterday's FOX poll showed 53% of Fox viewers want Trump impeached and removed from office. I suppose we can expect a tweet storm from Trump about how traitorous and unfair Fox is.


You have once again demonstrated an obsession with lying; is it hereditary, or learned behavior?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-record-support-for-trump-impeachment

Reply
Oct 10, 2019 19:41:42   #
kemmer
 
Gatsby wrote:
You have once again demonstrated an obsession with lying; is it hereditary, or learned behavior?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-record-support-for-trump-impeachment

Hahaha.... OK, only 51% of Fox viewers want Trump impeached and removed.

Reply
Oct 10, 2019 21:59:39   #
marinevet73
 
Here is the way to look at the impeachment proces. It is a political process, not a criminal process.

As Representive Lindsey Graham said about the Clinton impeachment, no crime has to be committed, only the appearance of a crime.

The House has begun an inquiry to determine if the want to vote to impeach. That is similar to a Grand Jury where a vote is taken to indict a person to send them to trial. Witnesses don't have to be called. All that happens is that someone presents facts that are sufficient to make the Grand Jury take a vote that they want to indict. If thay have a majority of the votes in the house, the Senate is notified that there needs to be a trial.

The Senate conducts the trial ruled over by the Chief Justice. At that time, the case us presented and witnesses are called and examined and cross examined by both sides. At the conclusion, if the Senate passes the impeachment by a 2/3's majority, the President is impeached.

During the house process, the person has no rights to cross examine witnesses, just like in the Grand Jury system. That happens at trial only. The Republicans on the various House committees can question witnesses called before it. The Republicans can openly debate the issue in the house prior to the vote to begin the impeachment and turn it over to the Senate. That is the procedure used in the impeachment process previously

Reply
Oct 10, 2019 22:02:00   #
Tug484
 
marinevet73 wrote:
Here is the way to look at the impeachment proces. It is a political process, not a criminal process.

As Representive Lindsey Graham said about the Clinton impeachment, no crime has to be committed, only the appearance of a crime.

The House has begun an inquiry to determine if the want to vote to impeach. That is similar to a Grand Jury where a vote is taken to indict a person to send them to trial. Witnesses don't have to be called. All that happens is that someone presents facts that are sufficient to make the Grand Jury take a vote that they want to indict. If thay have a majority of the votes in the house, the Senate is notified that there needs to be a trial.

The Senate conducts the trial ruled over by the Chief Justice. At that time, the case us presented and witnesses are called and examined and cross examined by both sides. At the conclusion, if the Senate passes the impeachment by a 2/3's majority, the President is impeached.

During the house process, the person has no rights to cross examine witnesses, just like in the Grand Jury system. That happens at trial only. The Republicans on the various House committees can question witnesses called before it. The Republicans can openly debate the issue in the house prior to the vote to begin the impeachment and turn it over to the Senate. That is the procedure used in the impeachment process previously
Here is the way to look at the impeachment proces.... (show quote)

That is how it's supposed to work, but Democrats aren't letting any Republicans have any say at all.

Reply
 
 
Oct 10, 2019 22:35:48   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
zombinis3 wrote:
Question for you , Why now the same calls are being made about Trump and his supporters now , what changed ? Personally I think no one really cared what Obama was doing. Rather didn't care enough to try and bring up anything against him. The one thing Trump has done for sure is to get more people take notice what can happen if they don't pay attention. The current feeling will drop to the past levels once Trump is out of office which will let the same thing happen again. Our style of government is like a child it has to be looked after not let loose and allow to run wild. The people elected have to be held accountable. When you vote only along the party line you are not holding the representatives accountable. As for the media they always have been in the game to make money and always will. Passing the infomation presented without checking on the validity is also not holding the media accountable.
Question for you , Why now the same calls are bein... (show quote)



https://youtu.be/wVCKC0mX0f4

Go to minute 6 for Impeachment Hysteria

Reply
Oct 10, 2019 23:25:26   #
marinevet73
 
Tug484 wrote:
That is how it's supposed to work, but Democrats aren't letting any Republicans have any say at all.


In the House hearings, the usual procedure is for each person to get 5 minutes to question a witness, usually Dem then Rep, etc, etc etc. Maybe the Republicans aren't asking newsworthy questions. The point is, they each get equal time.

The point I think you are missing is that technically they don't have to have any witnesses. All the House has to do is pass a rule that they want an impeachment trial held in the Senate. That is technically all they need to do.

Clearly, the Dems have a majority in the house. If it was strictly a partisan issue, they could hold that vote tomorrow.

This is strictly a political issue. The Dems are trying to bring the population along with them, so they are holding hearings to inform them of what Trump has done, and what he has already admitted to.

Impeachment is not s simple issue. If Trump is brought to trial in the Senate, and it falls, then it will be considered right for a sitting president to get help for his reelection from foreign countries. Some people already consider that it is okay to seek that help.Eventually, a Dem will be in office, and the question is will you be happy with that when someone from the opposite party is doing the exact same thing? If you allow Trump to do it, this will be available to all. Think about it.

Reply
Oct 10, 2019 23:28:39   #
Gatsby
 
kemmer wrote:
Hahaha.... OK, only 51% of Fox viewers want Trump impeached and removed.

So why did you have to LIE?

Reply
Oct 11, 2019 04:02:57   #
Singularity
 
kemmer wrote:
Hahaha.... OK, only 51% of Fox viewers want Trump impeached and removed.

From the source:
"The poll has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus three percentage points for all registered voters."

So, technically, your claim of 53% is within the margin of error, 48%-54%

Reply
 
 
Oct 11, 2019 06:41:32   #
Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ
 
Singularity wrote:
From the source:
"The poll has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus three percentage points for all registered voters."

So, technically, your claim of 53% is within the margin of error, 48%-54%


I call bs flag. What was the total amount of registered voters polled?

Reply
Oct 11, 2019 07:10:12   #
Singularity
 
Ranger7374 wrote:
I call bs flag. What was the total amount of registered voters polled?


I'm sure you will let us know what your research reveals.

Reply
Oct 11, 2019 14:51:15   #
herbie
 
Ranger7374 wrote:
Let me begin with some words from Alexander Hamilton:

"There will be no jury to stand between the judges who are to pronounce the sentence of the law, and the party who is to receive or suffer it. The awful discretion which a court of impeachments must necessarily have, to doom to honor or to infamy the most confidential and the most distinguished characters of the community, forbids the commitment of the trust to a small number of persons."- Alexander Hamilton

"Who would be willing to stake his life and his estate upon the verdict of a jury acting under the auspices of judges who had predetermined his guilt?" -Alexander Hamilton

"It ought not to be forgotten that the demon of faction will, at certain seasons, extend his sceptre over all numerous bodies of men." -Alexander Hamilton

"But though one or the other of the substitutes which have been examined, or some other that might be devised, should be thought preferable to the plan in this respect, reported by the convention, it will not follow that the Constitution ought for this reason to be rejected. If mankind were to resolve to agree in no institution of government, until every part of it had been adjusted to the most exact standard of perfection, society would soon become a general scene of anarchy, and the world a desert. Where is the standard of perfection to be found? Who will undertake to unite the discordant opinions of a whole community, in the same judgment of it; and to prevail upon one conceited projector to renounce his INFALLIBLE criterion for the FALLIBLE criterion of his more CONCEITED NEIGHBOR?" -Alexander Hamilton.


These quotes were taken from Federalist Papers #65.


Basically the impeachment and recall from office rule was injected into the Constitution to be used for criminal purposes. It is a check on our elected officials to prevent "Treason, Bribery, High Crimes and Misdemeanors". Madison and Hamilton agree that an elected official must be impeached and removed through a full responsibility of Congress and the Supreme Court in impeachment concerning the head of the Executive Department, the President. All representatives involved in an impeachment, or impeachment inquiry have to be placed on record.

There have been investigations. Some of these investigations have been debunked. Some have not. From the time before Donald Trump was Elected until now, the Democrats and Trump's enemies have been trying to impeach Donald Trump. There are news broadcasts of allegations against Donald Trump. However none of these allegations have entered into a court of law. How can Donald Trump exercise his Constitutional granted powers and protections?

This push for impeachment is being decided by one faction of the American community, that community is called the 'far left', the liberals, or the Democrats. As history has shown in the past few years, they will not quit. This is their choice. However, We, the people and citizens of these United States, are watching this soap opera play out. Before you decide whether or not Trump is guilty or innocent remember that the president is still an American Citizen.

Now being an American Citizen first, he enjoys the protections of the Constitution in all cases. Which means he has the following rights:

First amendment-
Freedom of speech
Freedom of the press
Freedom of religion
Freedom of assembly
Right to petition the government

Second amendment:
Right to bear arms

Third amendment:
Protection against housing soldiers in civilian homes

Fourth amendment:
Protection against unreasonable search and seizure
Protection against the issuing of warrants without probable cause

Fifth amendment:
Protection against trial without indictment, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, property seizure

Sixth amendment:
Right to a speedy trial
Right to be informed of charges
Right to be confronted by witnesses
Right to call witnesses
Right to a legal counsel

Seventh amendment
Right to trial by jury

Eighth amendment:
Protection against- excessive bail, excessive fines, cruel and unusual punishment

Ninth amendment:
Rights granted in the Constitution shall not infringe on other rights.

Tenth amendment:
Powers not granted to the Federal Government in the Constitution belong to the states or the people.

Being president of the United States, he also has powers invested into him from Article II of the Constitution.

Now, to open this discussion remember what is written here in. Let's judge as Americans based upon the guidelines stated above: Should Trump be impeached? And more importantly, is the House of Representatives, representing us, the American Public? Are they legally and faithfully carrying out thier duties as they are bound by the Constitution to do? Is Trump? Let the games begin.....
Let me begin with some words from Alexander Hamilt... (show quote)


so what you are saying is that the impeachments this country has had were unconstitutional ?

Reply
Oct 11, 2019 16:20:49   #
marinevet73
 
There have been 19 impeachments so far. 2 presidents, both acquitted, 1 senator, 1 secretary of war, and the rest a bunch of judges. Roughly half were found guilty and removed from their office. I think the process is pretty constitutional.

Reply
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