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How many coal plants are there in the world today?
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Sep 28, 2019 19:30:45   #
Voice of Reason Loc: Earth
 
MR Mister wrote:
In your case, you should have the power line and the gas pipe removed from your house, that you will be saying something!


Why?

https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/tpr?p=2992675&t=166289
https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/tpr?p=2984941&t=165921

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Sep 28, 2019 20:43:47   #
EN Submarine Qualified Loc: Wisconsin East coast
 
Voice of Reason wrote:
Sorry, Tom, I was being facetious. Also, believe it or not, there are people who actually don't know that natural gas is a fossil fuel.

Anyway, the push to replace coal-fired power plants with natural gas ones is ideological and political, not economic. It's all part of President Obama's war on coal, in which his EPA threatened huge fines daily for operating coal-fired plants.

The chart below shows the cost of natural gas vs equivanent-energy cost of coal. Turns out Appalachian coal is about the same price as natural gas. Powder River Basin coal is about 1/3 the cost of both. So, even with the current abundance (and low prices) for natural gas, it is still significantly more expensive to produce electricity with it than coal from the Powder River Basin.

But aside from the cost, another aspect of using natural gas for electricity production that I find disturbing and short-sighted, is that both coal and natural gas are finite resources. Yes, we currently have lots of both, but eventually they'll run out. Natural gas is a wonderful fuel for heating homes, cooking and can even be used for transportation. Coal is pretty much worthless for all of that, but wonderful for producing electricity. To me it makes a lot more sense to use the abundant coal resources for what they're best at and thereby save the natural gas for important uses that coal can't easily fill.
Sorry, Tom, I was being facetious. Also, believe i... (show quote)


Amen Brother. These folks haven't lived yet until they see the homes fired with coal. Where every home dweller is an environmental engineer (snicker). I remember as a kid, we bought a ton of coal to augment the firewood. Paid the outlandish fee of 9$.
Lets say this, you could tell every structure that used coal for heating. Better save that natural gas. Also use all that good old Uranium before somebody gets an idea to sell it to Russia. (Grins)

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Sep 29, 2019 11:22:17   #
MR Mister Loc: Washington DC
 
Voice of Reason wrote:
What’s a billionaire elitist to do?

Suppose you are a billionaire, from a long line of super wealthy elitist ancestors, who is getting up in age. You remember the good ol’ days, when you sat in air-conditioned comfort in the back of your Rolls while your chauffer whisked you through the almost empty streets of LA and up the coast highway to those fantastic parties at Hurst’s castle. You remember the wonderful trips to the beaches on the French Riviera in your private yacht. Those marinas and beaches were the exclusive domain for you and your kind. You remember the Hamptons and Palm Beach as they used to be.

Everything has changed now, the rabble are everywhere. Sure you can still have your chauffer take you out in the Rolls, but the rabble are crowding the streets forcing you to sit in traffic, and they don’t even have the common decency to get out of your way. Sure you can still go to the French Riviera, but the rabble now crowd the beaches and even the marinas. And, oh, those nouveau-rich! Rabble! All your favorite haunts are now accessible to the common rabble and it’s just not right! You’re better than they are, you know it and they should too, but what can you do?

So you consider the problem. How did it happen that the common rabble can afford to visit what used to be the private haunts of you and your kind? How did it happen that so many commoners have now become nouveau-rich? How did it happen that so many common rabble can drive cars that congest your streets?

You realize that the problem began with the beginnings of the industrial revolution. With the advent of machines that do the work of hundreds of men and cheap energy to power them, wealth was created at an unprecedented rate. As industries progressed ever more wealth was created and shared by the masses, the middle-class thrived and expanded to the point where today they’re able to go to the places and do the things that only the elite upper class could do just 60 years ago.

This situation is unacceptable, but how do you fix it? The solution is to lower the standard of living of the middle class back to what it should be, but how to do that? You could get the politicians you own to pass laws mandating the commoners lower their standard of living, but there are thousands of them for every one of you and they’d revolt. So what do you do?

You need to find a way to make them voluntarily lower their standard of living. So you go back to the root cause of the increase in wealth…cheap abundant energy in the form of fossil fuels. If you can eliminate the availability of cheap energy, the problem will fix itself. But how do you get the masses to accept that? What is common to all fossil fuel? Well, when it’s burned to produce energy, carbon dioxide is produced. There is nothing that can be done to prevent that, it’s just physics. That’s it! You can pay scientists to tell the rabble that burning fossil fuel is releasing ancient CO2 into the atmosphere and destroying the planet! You can pay your politicians to pass laws to limit the use and raise the cost of fossil fuel under the guise of saving the planet! The stupid rabble will, for the most part, believe it and voluntarily give up their luxuries for the good of the planet.

This will take a massive PR campaign, but you already have the politicians, the media and the universities (with the scientists) on your payroll, this is going to work! There will be some smart enough to see the scam, but the massive PR campaign can silence them. There can even be suggestions made that those who don’t go along should be accused of crimes against humanity. It will take a few decades but by the time your grandchildren reach your age things will be back to the way they should be. The rabble will be back in their place and the elites will be able to enjoy themselves again without having to endure the indignities of mingling with the common rabble.

Problem solved!
What’s a billionaire elitist to do? br br Suppos... (show quote)


I look around and I see most people living a lot better off then back in 1945. So, what the hell are you talking about? Did your handler give you this as a printout? Something to memorize so you can rattle on about absurdity or what?

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Sep 29, 2019 12:42:56   #
Voice of Reason Loc: Earth
 
MR Mister wrote:
I look around and I see most people living a lot better off then back in 1945. So, what the hell are you talking about? Did your handler give you this as a printout? Something to memorize so you can rattle on about absurdity or what?


Wow. I suggest you show that to somebody you know who has at least a shred of reading comprehension ability, then have them explain it to you.

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Sep 29, 2019 12:46:02   #
Voice of Reason Loc: Earth
 
EN Submarine Qualified wrote:
Amen Brother. These folks haven't lived yet until they see the homes fired with coal. Where every home dweller is an environmental engineer (snicker). I remember as a kid, we bought a ton of coal to augment the firewood. Paid the outlandish fee of 9$.
Lets say this, you could tell every structure that used coal for heating. Better save that natural gas. Also use all that good old Uranium before somebody gets an idea to sell it to Russia. (Grins)


Yup. If we want to reduce pollution and emissions while maintaining an electrical grid, nuclear needs to be a major part of it. Also, from what I've read, there are new patents out there for inherently safe reactors. They're smaller than current designs, but it's physically impossible for them to melt down.

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Sep 30, 2019 05:15:04   #
Coos Bay Tom Loc: coos bay oregon
 
Voice of Reason wrote:
Sorry, Tom, I was being facetious. Also, believe it or not, there are people who actually don't know that natural gas is a fossil fuel.

Anyway, the push to replace coal-fired power plants with natural gas ones is ideological and political, not economic. It's all part of President Obama's war on coal, in which his EPA threatened huge fines daily for operating coal-fired plants.

The chart below shows the cost of natural gas vs equivanent-energy cost of coal. Turns out Appalachian coal is about the same price as natural gas. Powder River Basin coal is about 1/3 the cost of both. So, even with the current abundance (and low prices) for natural gas, it is still significantly more expensive to produce electricity with it than coal from the Powder River Basin.

But aside from the cost, another aspect of using natural gas for electricity production that I find disturbing and short-sighted, is that both coal and natural gas are finite resources. Yes, we currently have lots of both, but eventually they'll run out. Natural gas is a wonderful fuel for heating homes, cooking and can even be used for transportation. Coal is pretty much worthless for all of that, but wonderful for producing electricity. To me it makes a lot more sense to use the abundant coal resources for what they're best at and thereby save the natural gas for important uses that coal can't easily fill.
Sorry, Tom, I was being facetious. Also, believe i... (show quote)

Thanks for the information. Did you know that Coos Bay has coal deposits all around it and that our Southport mine once supplied all the coal from Seatle to SanFrancico and all of the Steam ships on the west coast? Now you do. The mine kept a thousand men working until 1956. It is still a viable mine.

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Sep 30, 2019 08:04:43   #
EN Submarine Qualified Loc: Wisconsin East coast
 
Coos Bay Tom wrote:
Thanks for the information. Did you know that Coos Bay has coal deposits all around it and that our Southport mine once supplied all the coal from Seattle to San Francisco and all of the Steamships on the west coast? Now you do. The mine kept a thousand men working until 1956. It is still a viable mine.


Thank you too. I had no idea coal was mined that far west.
it is going to be a good learning day and it is only 7:04.

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Sep 30, 2019 12:08:57   #
Voice of Reason Loc: Earth
 
Coos Bay Tom wrote:
Thanks for the information. Did you know that Coos Bay has coal deposits all around it and that our Southport mine once supplied all the coal from Seatle to SanFrancico and all of the Steam ships on the west coast? Now you do. The mine kept a thousand men working until 1956. It is still a viable mine.


I did not know that...thanks. Do you know why it shut down in 1956?

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Sep 30, 2019 23:02:51   #
Coos Bay Tom Loc: coos bay oregon
 
Voice of Reason wrote:
I did not know that...thanks. Do you know why it shut down in 1956?


No more steam ships and electric heat.

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Oct 1, 2019 11:22:07   #
Voice of Reason Loc: Earth
 
Coos Bay Tom wrote:
No more steam ships and electric heat.


Interesting. I didn't realize they were still using steam ships until that recently.

Where does the electricity for the electric heat come from? Grand Coulee Dam?

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Oct 2, 2019 00:47:07   #
Coos Bay Tom Loc: coos bay oregon
 
Voice of Reason wrote:
Interesting. I didn't realize they were still using steam ships until that recently.

Where does the electricity for the electric heat come from? Grand Coulee Dam?


They were using steam ships in the 1960s. My cousin was a merchant marine. He was on the "black gang" shoveling coal into the boilers while the ship was underway. Electric power comes from a lot of sources throughout the country. In the west I would say mostly dams.

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Oct 2, 2019 08:39:58   #
EN Submarine Qualified Loc: Wisconsin East coast
 
Coos Bay Tom wrote:
They were using steam ships in the 1960s. My cousin was a merchant marine. He was on the "black gang" shoveling coal into the boilers while the ship was underway. Electric power comes from a lot of sources throughout the country. In the west I would say mostly dams.


Just FYI. The SS Badger runs daily from Manitowoc, WI to ludington, MI. Is part of US-10 and it is a coal burner. It represents a shortcut to avoid Milwaukee and Chicago. Saves about 270 miles. Summer ops only.

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Oct 3, 2019 00:55:47   #
Coos Bay Tom Loc: coos bay oregon
 
EN Submarine Qualified wrote:
Just FYI. The SS Badger runs daily from Manitowoc, WI to ludington, MI. Is part of US-10 and it is a coal burner. It represents a shortcut to avoid Milwaukee and Chicago. Saves about 270 miles. Summer ops only.


Pretty cool. Coal is still a viable energy source.

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Oct 3, 2019 15:08:53   #
MR Mister Loc: Washington DC
 
Voice of Reason wrote:
Wow. I suggest you show that to somebody you know who has at least a shred of reading comprehension ability, then have them explain it to you.


Well, that is defiantly not you. I live near a depressed area and when I go there I see most have a smartphone, a big flat-screen TV, a relatively new car, I speak of the USA, not Mexico. I have lived in many 3rd world countries and know what poverty is. It seems not you.

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Feb 13, 2020 13:08:23   #
Voice of Reason Loc: Earth
 
Smedley_buzkill wrote:
The United States currently produces about 5% of the world's coal pollution. Why don't you go to the countries who produce the other 95% and spout your bullshit there?


In the case of China, they're already communist, so there's no need.

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