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The Electoral College Was Terrible From the Start
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Sep 9, 2019 13:09:04   #
Jakebrake Loc: Broomfield, CO
 
Old Codger wrote:
"Halfrican"? Oh, you mean "the Kenyan" ("I was there when he was born" Obama's Grandmother is supposed to have said.)


Nope, his mother was WHITE, hence 'the halfrican'~

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Sep 9, 2019 13:58:00   #
GmanTerry
 
Noraa wrote:
Changing the constitution is going down a very dark path, one the progressives would love and are actually trying for.


You are so right. In these times when the fringe elements are screaming the loudest, changing the Constitution is a scary idea.

Semper Fi

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Sep 9, 2019 14:50:46   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
GmanTerry wrote:
You are so right. In these times when the fringe elements are screaming the loudest, changing the Constitution is a scary idea.

Semper Fi

Fortunately, The Founding Fathers made adding an amendment to the Constitution somewhat difficult.

https://www.lexisnexis.com/constitution/amendments_howitsdone.asp

Amending the U.S. Constitution is a difficult and time-consuming process – in fact, it was designed to be that way. Since the states ratified the document in 1788, only 27 out of 11,000 proposed amendments have been adopted. A given amendment therefore has to attract a very wide base of support, impassioned belief, and political action as well as pass very specific political criteria.

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Sep 9, 2019 14:56:35   #
Louie27 Loc: Peoria, AZ
 
rumitoid wrote:
Same old Trippe from you guys when evidence overwhelms you. Silence!


You have produced no evidence on this subject, ever. Show proof that most states would still be represented if only a small majority of voters voted for one candidate over the other and all of the rest were in the areas not encompassed by fewer vote count but had more of the land mass of this country, vote for the other candidate. That is what happened in the last election. People in most counties of this country voted for Trump. There have been other elections where the one elected had the majority of votes and the majority of the electoral college votes also. The last election doesn't happen very often but when it does, the left simply go bananas.

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Sep 9, 2019 15:08:39   #
crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island
 
rumitoid wrote:
George W. Bush is a lie."


George W. Bush was far from my favorite president but he is not the only lie in Washington. The entirety of progressivism and its sister ideologies, (socialism, national socialism, Fascism, communism, etc.) is a lie. They are based upon an inaccurate view of human nature.

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Sep 9, 2019 15:21:10   #
Armageddun Loc: The show me state
 
Gatsby wrote:
The tools are all there, to fix whatever we may agree is wrong with our Constitution.

It's a poor workman, who blames his tools.



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Sep 9, 2019 15:49:18   #
Lt. Rob Polans ret.
 
rumitoid wrote:
Before we get to the Electoral College, can we talk about Alexander Hamilton?

As a political figure, Hamilton was volatile, mercurial, choleric, vindictive, conniving, disloyal, and incontinent; those personal flaws eventually led to his death in a duel with Aaron Burr. We remember him because he was also smart, creative, dashing, and decisive. And if you’d had a case in front of a New York court, he’d have been the lawyer to hire. Brilliant doesn’t do justice to his advocacy skills.

But an advocate is what he was. If he were a car salesman today, he could convince you that you really don’t want the backup camera in your family minivan, because this baby here knows not to back into walls.

It’s in that context that we should read his panegyric, from “Federalist No. 68,” to the “mode of appointment of the chief magistrate of the United States” by the electors, a “small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, [who] will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations.” The electors, he assured us, will be “men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice.”
Before we get to the Electoral College, can we tal... (show quote)


I know, I'm wasting my time. And your beef with the electoral college is..? Without it three states would choose the President instead of the country. Right now I'd like to level two of those states. The 'craps have made them toxic for at least one generation, maybe more.

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Sep 9, 2019 15:54:42   #
elledee
 
amen slat ......the electoral college is a perfect example of why the people that made this country a reality hated democracy and went with a system that would insure the most equal representation for all the states
sidebar-equal representation is when there's an election and one side or the other wins fair and square

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Sep 9, 2019 17:42:01   #
Old Codger
 
Whenever I read someone (usually a lib/prog/socialist type) bemoaning how difficult it is to amend the Constitution, I am reminded of Jefferson's sage words in the Declaration, "Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes". If it was true in 1776, then it was still true in 1787 and is STILL TRUE in 2019. Government should not be altered for "light and transient causes" and the amendment process would seem to have been designed with that principle in mind.

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Sep 9, 2019 18:07:34   #
Old Codger
 
elledee wrote:
amen slat ......the electoral college is a perfect example of why the people that made this country a reality hated democracy and went with a system that would insure the most equal representation for all the states
sidebar-equal representation is when there's an election and one side or the other wins fair and square


I have read that "Democracy is just mob rule writ large." The founders did not give us a "democracy" (despite what we all were taught in school) but a republic; albeit one based upon democratic principles. They worked very hard to make a "tyranny of the majority" impossible. They also originally wanted to have the several states to have a legislative body dedicated to taking care of the business of the states, hence the Senate originally had the individual states equally represented with Senators "elected" by the state legislatures. That was on purpose. One house of the bicameral legislature represented the people and for that reason was called the "house" of "REPRESENTATIVES". The other house was to represent the several states. As I see it, the biggest problem of majority rule (i.e. democracy) is that many (most) people are too easily swayed by silver-tongued demagogues. Also, "majority" is never explicitly defined. How big of a margin is required? 2%? (51% to 49%) 1%? 0.1%? 0.0001%? Who decides? is it 100,000 votes out of 100,000,000 or 1,000 votes; or 1 vote?

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Sep 9, 2019 20:25:14   #
dongreen76
 
rumitoid wrote:
Before we get to the Electoral College, can we talk about Alexander Hamilton?

As a political figure, Hamilton was volatile, mercurial, choleric, vindictive, conniving, disloyal, and incontinent; those personal flaws eventually led to his death in a duel with Aaron Burr. We remember him because he was also smart, creative, dashing, and decisive. And if you’d had a case in front of a New York court, he’d have been the lawyer to hire. Brilliant doesn’t do justice to his advocacy skills.

But an advocate is what he was. If he were a car salesman today, he could convince you that you really don’t want the backup camera in your family minivan, because this baby here knows not to back into walls.

It’s in that context that we should read his panegyric, from “Federalist No. 68,” to the “mode of appointment of the chief magistrate of the United States” by the electors, a “small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, [who] will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations.” The electors, he assured us, will be “men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice.”
Before we get to the Electoral College, can we tal... (show quote)


It was a last ditch effort of installing a backup to the decided on Democracy form of governmental rule. The framers just didn't have to much faith in the proletariats ability to make intelligent decisions as to what the rules of govern should be.This is why the electoriates are not required to vote their constituencies mind.

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Sep 9, 2019 21:05:08   #
peg w
 
The electoral college was put into the constitution because our founfing fathers did not trust the people. It was made to prevent people like Trump from obtaining office. The electoral college was supposed to have the sence God gave lettuce and vote for an appropriate candidate. Now it is a way for Republicans to have an edge without the votes. So, Hillary had 3 million mor
Votes than Trump, yet he obatained the office. Somehow, I do not think this is what our founding fathers had in mind

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Sep 9, 2019 22:18:19   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
slatten49 wrote:
Again, "According to the 2016 election results, as one can see, the Dems certainly did not dominate the urban states and thus, their electoral votes. According to the numbers below, the GOP actually has a popular vote edge of about thirty million among the top ten states in population...."

Also again..."I am fine with the electoral college system, but if & when there is a constitutional amendment eliminating it in favor of the popular vote, I could/would accept such a decision."
Again, "According to the 2016 election result... (show quote)


Slatten, you are correct that the Dems did not dominate the urban states. What they dominated were the urban counties which represented about 1% of the over 3000 counties in this country.

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Sep 9, 2019 22:32:13   #
sambev
 
peg w wrote:
The electoral college was put into the constitution because our founfing fathers did not trust the people. It was made to prevent people like Trump from obtaining office. The electoral college was supposed to have the sence God gave lettuce and vote for an appropriate candidate. Now it is a way for Republicans to have an edge without the votes. So, Hillary had 3 million mor
Votes than Trump, yet he obatained the office. Somehow, I do not think this is what our founding fathers had in mind


I think that was exactly what they had in mind. I'm not sure what 'people like Trump' means to you, but to me it means a non-politician who loves this country, truly cares about the everyday citizen, is rough around the edges, and gets things done. Like the founding fathers, he's a bit of a rebel. Personally, I think they would like his adventuresome personality; after all, they were developing a brand new country; one can't be more rebellious and adventuresome than that. Even in 1776, they knew they had to protect the votes of the rural areas. The electoral college has fulfilled its purpose over and over. "If it isn't broke, don't fix it."

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Sep 9, 2019 22:40:02   #
Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI
 
rumitoid wrote:
Before we get to the Electoral College, can we talk about Alexander Hamilton?

As a political figure, Hamilton was volatile, mercurial, choleric, vindictive, conniving, disloyal, and incontinent; those personal flaws eventually led to his death in a duel with Aaron Burr. We remember him because he was also smart, creative, dashing, and decisive. And if you’d had a case in front of a New York court, he’d have been the lawyer to hire. Brilliant doesn’t do justice to his advocacy skills.

But an advocate is what he was. If he were a car salesman today, he could convince you that you really don’t want the backup camera in your family minivan, because this baby here knows not to back into walls.

It’s in that context that we should read his panegyric, from “Federalist No. 68,” to the “mode of appointment of the chief magistrate of the United States” by the electors, a “small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, [who] will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations.” The electors, he assured us, will be “men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice.”
Before we get to the Electoral College, can we tal... (show quote)


I would say that the electro college was a necessity in the early years of this country because:
There was really no dependable way to get the results to the capital to count the votes.
There wasn't a fast dependable mail service or any other dependable way to get the information to a collection point in a timely fashion.

Even now transferring the information is not as good as it should be.

I think all voting needs to meet the same standard across the country.
The whole system is based on trust.
We just don't have the level of honesty in what we base the trust on.

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