truthiness

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EconDon,
Being an economist, I know you must like data even though you rarely use data on OPP in preference to opinion, disclaimer, and ad hominem attacks. But being a data guy, here are some data on trickle-down theory ripe for refuting:

http://www.faireconomy.org/trickle_down_economics_four_reasons

In summary, these data conclude that Cutting the top tax rate:
1) Does not lead to economic growth
2) Does not lead to income growth
3) Does not lead to wage growth
4) Does not lead to job creation.

Radiance3

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Let me handle this:
All your 4 theories are WRONG! The stats you displayed are fabricated, to justify the liberal narratives of raising taxes. Those 4 theories you've provided are the opposite of job growth and business growth. It leads to depression and insolvency of the companies that finally lead to bankruptcy of the countries engage in high taxes like the socialist 3rd world. All the countries of South of the border are bankrupt as a result of these stupidies and greed of the socialist leader. Yours is under Socialism.

1. What you've presented do not lead to economic growth, but the opposite is true.
Your theory is wrong.
Why? When corporate taxes are lowered, the corporate businesses therefore realize higher income. Income earned are used to create more businesses. As businesses expands, revenue expands. Higher labor force are needed and hired. When labor contracts, due to demands, therefore more competition, higher salary are offered to the most competitive ones.

2. Does not lead to income growth. Again that is wrong.
Here is the correct one.
Cutting off tax rates allowed company to retain more income profits which are used for expansion of the businesses. Expansion of business means more business activities create revenue that generates income. adding growth to the economy.

3. Does not lead to wage growth, wrong.
Here is the correct one.
When there many business expansion, more labor force are needed. Short supply of labor means higher salaries are offered to obtain the labor force needed in the business expansion. In 2018-2019, a 3% to 5% wage increases was realized to every worker in the US.
4. Does not lead to job creation Wrong.
Here is the correct one.
When corporate profits expands due to lower tax rates, the tendency of the business is expansion. Higher revenue provides the businesses more capital to expand. Expansion means more business that will earn revenue and thus create more jobs.

Lower overhead costs, allow all business to grow and expands, create job growth, create more revenue. Therefore they pay more taxes due from their earnings. When more people work, they pay also to the IRS their income tax, SS and Medicare taxes. That is how business enterprise grow over the years. What I've provided are the theories of free market economy. The Capitalistic venture of freedom. That was how America became the richest and most geneous country in the world.

truthiness

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AS USUAL, NO DATA, ONLY OPINION. Without any data to support it, your opinion is no better than mine or anybody else's.

Seth

That "opinion" was accurate, however, and the data to back it up has been posted here a lot -- the problem is that leftists never read the data when it is posted -- that or they can't understand it.

After repeatedly posting the same data over and over to debate the same issues over and over, one finally shrugs and says, "Why waste my time? These lefties and reality are like matter vs anti-matter, and if they actually were interested in the truth they would already know it. Search engines, when used competently, are a wonderful thing."

What Radiance3 posted above has manifest itself copiously since the tax cuts, and is reflected in the lowest unemployment rate in decades and an overall increase in wages and no, it had nothing to do with Obama, as he did absolutely nothing that introduced any incentive for businesses to expand while he did provide a lot of incentive for companies to leave their foreign earnings offshore, where he couldn't tax them a second time at a high corporate rate.

It is extremely difficult to associate intelligence with people who have a tough time acknowledging a simple cause and effect scenario: Nothing of any real consequence is happening. Then somebody does something. Suddenly things start happening at an accelerated rate.

End of story.

America 1 Loc: South Miami

Oh, the economy today is BS?
Recheck the data.

Radiance3

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Do you really understand how economy works? Here are principle applications how performance must function in the economy. I am giving you a classroom simplified lecture for you to better understand.

Example:
Corporate original highest tax was 50%
Corporate gross taxable income was $250,000,000,000. (billion)
Fifty percent of that would be $125,000,000,000. (billion), original tax at 50%.
If that rate of 50% was reduced to 25%, the tax would be $62,500,000,000, final tax after reduction.

Therefore you saved that tax of $62,500,000,000 (billion).That was their savings.
The company re-invested that savings to expand the business. They hired more people to work for the expansion. The expanded business generate added revenue for the company. That revenue will again generate tax of 25% for the federal government.
Likewise all the people hired in the business expansion will be paying federal taxes as well. They will be paying IRS for income tax, SS and Medicare taxes.
Every year the company grows, employees salaries are also given a growth salary rate from 3% to 5%.

I am explaining this to you in a very simple way. This is how practical principle applications are applied to all business activities.

truthiness

...I guess you are on your boat, Seth, and forgot to look at the data. Since you also have never contributed anything that looks like data, your opinion is no better than anyone else's, so you are adding nothing to this conversation--so we lose nothing in your leaving. Have a good weekend.

America 1 Loc: South Miami

Have a good weekend while on your spaceship.

truthiness

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Thank you for the "simple" explanation, Rad3.
You said:
"Therefore you saved that tax of $62,500,000,000 (billion).That was their savings.
The company re-invested that savings to expand the business. They hired more people to work for the expansion. The expanded business generate added revenue for the company. That revenue will again generate tax of 25% for the federal government.
Likewise all the people hired in the business expansion will be paying federal taxes as well. They will be paying IRS for income tax, SS and Medicare taxes.
Every year the company grows, employees salaries are also given a growth salary rate from 3% to 5%."

That is the theory. Here is what actually happened:https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-10-companies-buying-back-the-most-stock-2019-03-25

What is absent from your analysis is that CEOs did exactly what they said they would: they bought back their stock with the tax savings rather than investing it as you seem to think they did or should. Neither did they increase wages except for a token expression a day after the tax package was passed. The only people who might possibly benefit were the more wealthy who own stock, and even that is only a possibilty if higher dividends are not declared.

(Maybe that is the problem, Rad; maybe you are a coupon clipper and only see value for you on the stock side rather than the wages side of the problem).

I don't know what your claim to economic expertise is, Rad3, but thanks for the lessons in theoretical trickle-down theory. I am not trained as an economist, but I can read, and the items I have posted are not
singular and seem to follow the trend of reporting on the effect of Trump's tax package: the rising tide that supply-siders like to claim lifts all boats is a poor metaphor here because it doesn't fit; dynamic scoring was a sham, and real wages (a economic technical term--see my first citation above) have not gone up during Trump's tenure and long before as well (see the first graph above). The better metaphor is the sparrows eating the undigested oats in the horse manure, those horses having very good digestive tracts that leave very little undigested.

Seth

I have an even better idea -- how about you get out more, travel around America, meet a few people who dwell outside your bubble, in the Realm of Reality®?

You might learn that this leftist propaganda drivel you're peddling is just that -- drivel, because you simply can't accept that this president you hate so much is actually doing a great job, much, much better than that globalist ringer Soros & Co. installed from Jan 2009-Jan 2017, and a lot of useful idiots voted for.

America 1 Loc: South Miami

Try this for your digested tract
Adjusted for inflation, workers' wages grew 0.6 percent over the year, making the increase the largest since 2016, according to the Labor Department.
Why Wages Are Finally Rising, 10 Years After the Recession
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/02/business/economy/wage-growth-economy.html

truthiness

Well, Swabbie, you got only two things wrong:
1) I a neither left nor right on yours or anybody's spectrum;
2) I don't hate Trump, but I sure don't like what he is doing to our country.

America 1 Loc: South Miami

Then what do you consider a better spectrum?

Radiance3

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Here are the facts that happened after the corporate tax was reduced to 25%. The unemployment rate went down to 3.6%, then now 3.7%. During the prior administration, we had 7%, 11% for the regular. Then there was the 16% for black unemployment. The Blacks and Hispanics have now experienced the lowest unemployment since history.

Before corporate tax was reduced, we had 46 million households on food stamps.
Most of those on food stamps at present are now working. Instead of depending from the government, they are now earning for their own with dignity and respect.

The biggest draw back on our economy for decades was the out of balance trade with China. That problem continued growing for decades. Now, president Trump is correcting this huge problem that accumulated over time. The imposition of the tariffs resulted to raising price to add th 15%. Therefore, with higher price, we reduce purchase of China products. We must need to cooperate buying our own products. This will affect all of us for the meantime. Buying our own with better quality, is good for our economy. China has much inferior quality that they dumped to our market for so many years.
Patriotism is needed to buying our own.

America 1 Loc: South Miami

Some just don't care for a better life or products.
The only concern is how cheap.