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At what point are we "beings?"
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May 22, 2019 09:59:24   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
susanblange wrote:
The idols do not have to be prayed to. It is not the Jews who worship idols, it is the children of Israel, the northern kingdom, the ten lost tribes, who are Christians. The Jews are a very small part of the children of Israel. When the Messiah comes, he will abolish the idols. Isaiah 2:18.


"It is not the Jews who worship idols, it is the children of Israel, the northern kingdom, the ten lost tribes, who are Christians." - susanblange
Sooo much to reply to.

The lost 10 tribes fell away after the Syrian captivity, then migrated to Scandinavia and Western Europe, and lost their identity.
But when they were presented Chritianity (St. Paul, etc) they returned to the belief in Yahweh/Yashua.
Much prophecy on that was fulfilled.


Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.


Matthew 10:6 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-10-6/


John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/John-10-27/

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May 22, 2019 10:31:14   #
Ricktloml
 
Rose42 wrote:
Susan needs help she can’t get here. We need to pray she gets it.


Can we get an Amen!

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May 22, 2019 10:47:11   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
Ricktloml wrote:
Can we get an Amen!


Amen

Reply
 
 
May 22, 2019 10:54:50   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
eagleye13 wrote:
"It is not the Jews who worship idols, it is the children of Israel, the northern kingdom, the ten lost tribes, who are Christians." - susanblange
Sooo much to reply to.

The lost 10 tribes fell away after the Syrian captivity, then migrated to Scandinavia and Western Europe, and lost their identity.
But when they were presented Chritianity (St. Paul, etc) they returned to the belief in Yahweh/Yashua.
Much prophecy on that was fulfilled.


Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.


Matthew 10:6 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-10-6/


John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/John-10-27/
"It is not the Jews who worship idols, it is ... (show quote)


Matthew 10:6 Context

3Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. 5These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 9Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,


BTW; The use of the word "Gentile" (Greek word Ethnos) in the New Testament is misleading.
It leads people to think Gentiles is meant as non Hebrews.
A less misleading translation is "nations".
The disciplines were to seek the lost sheep of the Northern Kingdom Israelite tribes.

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May 22, 2019 11:00:53   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
lindajoy wrote:
Do you believe in Descartes conclusions??
Is mind and body separate or one needs the other to function?

Some believe the mind is the soul..Is it ??
Essence of the mind?? Reminded me of this~~

The energy of the mind is the essence of life.
Aristotle

But is it??

Isn’t the essence of life, much more than the energy of the mind....A transformations of an energy no one really knows the origin, beyond the current quantum theories further studying your very question..

Where is the essence??

Great topic, great responses too...Interesting and learning..!!
Do you believe in Descartes conclusions?? br Is mi... (show quote)


To me, the essence of the mind is consciousness. Whether that consciousness can escape the physical brain or not, I have no idea. If it can, then I would call that spirit or soul; I don't really see anything different between the two, spirit or soul. If the mind cannot escape the physical brain, then I would say that the essence of the mind is within the inner workings of the physical brain.

So, now that I'm further confused . . .

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May 22, 2019 11:59:13   #
susanblange Loc: USA
 
eagleye13 wrote:
"It is not the Jews who worship idols, it is the children of Israel, the northern kingdom, the ten lost tribes, who are Christians." - susanblange
Sooo much to reply to.

The lost 10 tribes fell away after the Syrian captivity, then migrated to Scandinavia and Western Europe, and lost their identity.
But when they were presented Chritianity (St. Paul, etc) they returned to the belief in Yahweh/Yashua.
Much prophecy on that was fulfilled.


Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.


Matthew 10:6 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-10-6/


John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/John-10-27/
"It is not the Jews who worship idols, it is ... (show quote)


I agree that the House of Israel is now north western Europe, what used to be called "free Europe". This includes the USA which is called Israel in the Haftarah. They were exiled because of idolatry and have not repented. They have almost always been joined to idols, and they still are. History repeats itself and the USA will once again go into captivity at the hands of the Russians, we will also experience famine and pestilence. One tenth of Americans will survive this. Isaiah 6:13.

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May 22, 2019 12:38:49   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
susanblange wrote:
I agree that the House of Israel is now north western Europe, what used to be called "free Europe". This includes the USA which is called Israel in the Haftarah. They were exiled because of idolatry and have not repented. They have almost always been joined to idols, and they still are. History repeats itself and the USA will once again go into captivity at the hands of the Russians, we will also experience famine and pestilence. One tenth of Americans will survive this. Isaiah 6:13.


You sure have some crazy ideas mixed with truth.
Christians are not Idolitors, although many are pretty ignorant of what is in the bible.
I blame a lot of that on Pastors and churches.

Try studying the many prophesies on Joseph (God changed his name to Israel) and his sons Ephraim and Manessah

https://thetorah.com/when-moses-placed-ephraim-before-manasseh/

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May 22, 2019 13:16:22   #
maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee
 
JW wrote:
I'll try to be clearer. To determine what life is, one must look at several very different forms of life to find the commonality. What each creature does is irrelevant. What does each creature have in common? Life... certainly... what is the only commonality to every form of life? They have the ability to function... all function differently but all have the ability to function.

Now, turning to the two bodies you presented; one can function, one can not. Not only do all living things have the ability to function but things lacking life have no such ability. So, life is the ability to function,
life is functionality.

Your question was what is life. You asked for a scientific response. You got one.

As for your new slant, of course a baby is alive and so is a wart. What is being destroyed in an abortion is a living thing but only a thing, at least in the initial stages of development. What its potential might be is a very different question. Once that potential has been sufficiently developed, the considerations all change. The real issue is the one originally raised in this thread; at what point are we beings... instead of just things.
I'll try to be clearer. To determine what life is,... (show quote)


I'll answer you last point first. You are correct of course, that babies and warts are both living things. The real difference, as you pointed out, is potential. The wart will always be just a wart, but the unborn baby just might be the future president of the U.S., or a doctor...who knows? When you kill the baby, you kill everything it may have accomplished in life.

As for a description of life, maybe I'm not using the correct words. You said the living body has the "ability" to function, while the dead body does not. I believe that ability comes only with life...where there is no life, there is no ability. Our ability to function does not include dreaming and imagining. If we lived as animals, only concerned with eating, safety, and procreation, we would have survived just as well as we have, maybe even better. What I was asking for is to give a scientific explanation of the ability you spoke of, or life. You see, I don't believe science CAN answer that question...what is life. Science can tell you when something is alive or not, but I don't believe science can tell you why one thing is live and another thing, identical in every way, is dead. A body can be kept functional artificially, but that doesn't mean that there's "anybody home". On the other hand, the body can be clinically dead and the "life" can still be returned to the body.
I hope I explained it better this time around.
Have a great day, JW

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May 22, 2019 13:40:53   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
I like to think in terms of plant life.
When almost dead, it can be brought back to its potential.
When dead, that is it. No potential to grow.
However, it may become a table.

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May 22, 2019 13:56:52   #
maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
My apologies friend David...

I should have been clearer...

I don't believe that God hated Esau before he was born...

Hope you get a good rest...

Stay strong...


Good noon, my friend,
This 5 day a week business is getting on my nerves!!


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May 22, 2019 14:30:54   #
susanblange Loc: USA
 
eagleye13 wrote:
You sure have some crazy ideas mixed with truth.
Christians are not Idolitors, although many are pretty ignorant of what is in the bible.
I blame a lot of that on Pastors and churches.

Try studying the many prophesies on Joseph (God changed his name to Israel) and his sons Ephraim and Manessah

https://thetorah.com/when-moses-placed-ephraim-before-manasseh/


You and I can agree, eagle. Joseph received the birthright and blessing in his generation. It was then bestowed upon Ephraim. They are the true Israel. We are only lost because we don't know who we are. And that is because we don't keep the Sabbath. Manasseh is Great Britain and Queen Elizabeth is sitting on the throne of David. Ephraim is Norway, and I am mostly Norwegian. Have you ever heard of Herbert W. Armstrong? He wrote a small book about this called "The United States and Britain in Prophecy". The USA is Israel proper, and all the actors in the play are American. They are myself, Elijah, Gabrielle (she's a woman and that is her actual name), Michael, David, and Deborah. Also Adam and Jesus. They have all been reincarnated.

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May 22, 2019 16:21:46   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
eagleye13 wrote:
You sure have some crazy ideas mixed with truth.
Christians are not Idolitors, although many are pretty ignorant of what is in the bible.
I blame a lot of that on Pastors and churches.

Try studying the many prophesies on Joseph (God changed his name to Israel) and his sons Ephraim and Manessah

https://thetorah.com/when-moses-placed-ephraim-before-manasseh/


After Jacob wrestled gawd,pinned him, and dislocated Jacob's hip! Cheater!

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May 22, 2019 17:29:36   #
JW
 
PeterS wrote:
Outside the context of religion does the question of ''being'' even exist? I mean we are homo sapien mammals. We are the dominant species because of our ability to walk upright and our intelligence.

As for extinction? So long as we are the dominant species I don't think we care whether extinction events occur in the world. In 20 to 30 years the north pole won't support its current life form but it will open up room for other life forms to emerge so as one species goes away another will move in to take its place.

As grotesque as extinction is I don't think we care as long as it isn't us...
Outside the context of religion does the question ... (show quote)


I would hazard a guess and say we are the next on the list.

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May 22, 2019 17:38:58   #
JW
 
lindajoy: Faith can not be defined in spirituality..It simply is... Just as you have faith in your wife or child, if you have either, or simply faith in yourself..

Interesting debate and while there is no proof as you say about God, you nor anyone else has proof there isn’t a God..

Its choices made by the person in their personal beliefs.. We believe, you do not.. So be it...


… but, I really do/did not expect a response.


Beliefs are personal things as you say and, as long as they don't affect the unwilling, should be free to be held and be beyond the reproach of the unconcerned. Belief is a major problem for objectivity. Where belief governs, objectivity vanishes.

This thread, as I undeerstood it, was not about religion but about a quality of existence. I've tried to respond to that as best I can.

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May 22, 2019 17:54:15   #
JW
 
maximus wrote:
I'll answer you last point first. You are correct of course, that babies and warts are both living things. The real difference, as you pointed out, is potential. The wart will always be just a wart, but the unborn baby just might be the future president of the U.S., or a doctor...who knows? When you kill the baby, you kill everything it may have accomplished in life.

As for a description of life, maybe I'm not using the correct words. You said the living body has the "ability" to function, while the dead body does not. I believe that ability comes only with life...where there is no life, there is no ability. Our ability to function does not include dreaming and imagining. If we lived as animals, only concerned with eating, safety, and procreation, we would have survived just as well as we have, maybe even better. What I was asking for is to give a scientific explanation of the ability you spoke of, or life. You see, I don't believe science CAN answer that question...what is life. Science can tell you when something is alive or not, but I don't believe science can tell you why one thing is live and another thing, identical in every way, is dead. A body can be kept functional artificially, but that doesn't mean that there's "anybody home". On the other hand, the body can be clinically dead and the "life" can still be returned to the body.
I hope I explained it better this time around.
Have a great day, JW
I'll answer you last point first. You are correct ... (show quote)


I understand what you are asking but my answer remains the same. Life is functionality, functionality is life. That essence you point to as life is just that, the ability to function. Remove any critical part of a living thing and the organism becomes devoid of life. Functionality is the only commonality among ALL living things.

The fact that a braindead individual can be kept warm with some functionality is not significant because artificial nutritioning and nurturing can keep organs alive for a period of time outside of the body. Still, the brain is no longer functioning. In the case of one woman who died back in the 50s, some of her cells are still living in the laboratory. Her cells are regarded as immortal.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/05/there-was-once-a-woman-who-had-immortal-cells/

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