Ve'hoe

But even after conversion everyone still sins,,,, even pastors,,, even the disciples,,,, it is impossible for a man to get through this life,,, without it.

I am not a great student of the bible and cannot quote chapter and verse,,, but there is also a point in there, where it tells why Jesus made the sacrifice, and it was so that no man may brag, or feel that HE was responsible for his own salvation,,, otherwise we would get cocky and begin telling each other how to do it,,,

Kind of like now,,,, we cant help it,, we don't know the way, but we are sure everyone else is wrong,,, still I am not 100% sure,,, but I am very careful whom I allow to control my thinking, worship, and actions....people can be wrong,,, and be passionate, as well as very convincing..

rhomin57 Loc: Far Northern CA.

I do have to agree with you on childrens ideas of Jesus Christ when it comes to their imagination. Some children have a deep desire to know and understand Jesus, but in only the maturity their age allows them. Some children having a very active imagination doesn't help matters at times.
I was baptized and into the Holy Spirit of God when I was seven. After the Baptism, I expected to hear raging winds and thunder crackling per God. Seeing as though I didn't, I thought God had refused me. I remained very quiet and sad for a while. Then eventually went back to playing like any kid.
Jesus was not Baptised until he was an adult, in full understanding of the meaning of the act per God's request. Children, again, are under the supervision of the parent(s) regarding their overall growth and teaching. Churches are to teach children of Jesus Christ per their age levels.
Parents are 'Responsible' for their children, and children are covered under God through their parent(s).

People have said that Jesus childhood has been left out of scripture. "It Has Not!" There's just not much can be said for a perfect child, the Son of God:"

"1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Galatians 4.
This is Jesus childhood.

It is my belief that a child should be raised to know the Love, Teachings, and Salvation of Jesus Christ, but 'Baptism should be their own decision once an Adult in the fullness of it's understanding and comprehension.' As all things worked for and waited on, it is much more appreciated and taken more seriously.

Hungry Freaks

*****************************************

Yes, I still have a deep distaste for organized religion. I was baptized as an infant and have no memory of it. I was confirmed as a member of the church at 12. At that age, I just wanted to fit in with no deeper understanding of what I was doing.

The Amish have a good idea. Children are raised in the church, but at 18 are given a year or two to go out into the world and make a decision-to stay with the order or to go live in the world.

Back when Lancaster PA had a substantial Amish population the 18 year olds really cut loose-fast cars, drinking and all the rest. I have no idea what percentage stayed with the order or who many crossed over to the worldly ways. But at least they were on the cusp of adulthood and could make that decision.

I still laugh about the hot/cold thing. And I still don't like my beverages very hot or very cold.

CDM Loc: Florida

Attempting to stay on topic; gay rights; I cannot see what this post has to do with gay rights or frankly how it got so far afield as a religious debate except for the fact that people missed the hatred in it. What you posted is a perversely insane diatribe for religious rights . What 'gay rights' are you specifically alluding to? The right to exist; the right to breath the same air you do?

"They can be saved both by Jesus and the doctor?" Please enlighten us all; please share the science and medical data that demonstrates, no proves unquestionably and is widely accepted in the medical/psychiatric communities that there is medical treatment for 'gayness'. Where can I find this information? After hours of searching I have been unable to uncover any such science. Please share.

You contradict your initial premiss, without defining normal, saying that homosexuals don't want to be normal because it is 'becoming cool to be gay'. So which is it, a treatable disease or whimsical fancy? If it's just whimsical fancy to be 'cool' it's been cool in recorded history at least 3000 years before Christ.? Quite a tenacious trend, wouldn't you say?

On the other hand there is research published across the medical, psychological, psychiatric, archeological and anthropological disciplines of science going back many decades and empirical as it may be, it all seems to conclude that same sex attraction is prevalent in nature in a remarkable number of species. None of these research suggests medical abnormality as causal or treatable. It appears to be a natural phenomenon.

Again, if you can point me to the non-emperical, medical data proving curability, please do so.

I think Christians still believe God created man (and by association, woman) in his own image. In your simple mind I'm sure that means we look like him. I seriously doubt you consider the higher aspects of this seemingly simple proclamation; that perhaps man was created from a complex blueprint, a DNA image. If in that process he got a few chromosomes mixed up and got a few people stuck in the middle that's not for me to judge or fix. God, Allah or whichever God you believe in will make it right on Judgement Day; as with us all.

I am not gay. I am not a practicing Christian. I am thankful for my life, whoever gave it to me. I almost lost it in a war and learned that it is short and ultimately terminal anyway. There is no time for hatred, an emotion that sucks out life-force and contaminates and whither's all it touches.

To me you represent the best of hypocrisy; someone who hides under a mantel of Christian love and brotherhood to selectively persecute other men...all in the name of God...

Ve'hoe

She isn't that bad,,,, the problem you have,, (and I have had it too) is that WAR fast forwards your life, and you come away with a very different opinion on what is right,,,
and especially what is appropriate to occupy your limited time on this earth with.

I am a practicing Christian, who some hate here, some agree with, and a lot avoid,, I am also a 30 year service vet who has been in combat.

I agree with you,,this is just not an important topic,,, it might be a little uncomfortable at the dinner table of two gay guys who are you neighbors,, but after a few glasses of some vintage "BOXED" wine,,,, what difference does it make? If the wine and food was better than an MRE, you weren't accosted, and didn't wake up in bed with a male or female,,, all in all that was an OK visit!!

Singularity

"Finally, gasp.... Fresh air! A rational discourse with structure, grammer AND passion! I can BREATHE again!"

And, my initial reaction to a previous commenter's post might need to be reconsidered.

Seems it might be possible to calmly and judicioudly examine the facts and discuss an issue related to Human Sexuality without mentioning genitalia and your worst nightmares.

KUDOES

Jacky Loc: Alabama

Well I'm sure when you don't know just jump into ranting like some one has injuredyou. But as to set the record straight you didn't look very hard for correct answers. So here is where some of my knowledge came from. www.southeastrecovery.com/..._lesbian_treatment.html and then another place is www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-ad... try these resources and then while you are on the last site read the questions and answers on the far right side of this page and read about the actual treatments like testostrone and abnormalities in the mothers womb that cause these things to go wrong. But on a personal note I actually have a family member who was told he had to many female horomones and only about 1/8 of the needed male testostrone needed to feel male urges like most men do. Well he declined the treatment, his thought was it is more fun to be gay, he is the female side of his partnership. Am I a Christian you bet I am. am I judging well only by the fruit that a persons life bears record of. So maybe a war can make you accept everything as acceptable just because you were scared & worried about family and all that is reasonable. But don't use the war as a reason to chicken out on right & wrong. So you think what you like about me & I'm sure you will. But you cannot make sin anything other than sin. People have to decide that Jesus Christ is the single most important thing in their life, and whether they do or not , you are right one day Jesus Christ will judge the world, and I am secure in my place with our Savior. But I welcome your comments even though you tried to be condescending. Look a little harder for real answers for I have had real life experience with a member of my own family on this issue.

Brian Devon

Brilliant post. You write well. Homosexuality is not a disease in need of a cure. It has always been the life of a small part of humanity and always will be. It exists in all societies, whether openly or behind closed doors. It even exists among mammals.

People who are secure in their own sexuality do not fixate on the sexuality of others.

Wolf counselor Loc: Heart of Texas

Apatoo Nee Nee . Гомосексуализм чистое зло

Ve'hoe

The problem Jonah had was that he didn't want the blessing of god to be extended,,, the Ninevites were indeed horrible people.
But what caused the enmity between Jonah and god, was Jonah (the created) deciding that he would not extend that to people he didn't think deserved it,,,,,God put a boot up his butt...

So,,, think for a minute about the science and truth surrounding the story.....

Jonah, was a man of importance, and a good "Jew" (not a Christian) so he was likely successful and apparently learned enough and studied that he thought he was smart enough to correct mistakes god made.

So,,, the science,,,, IF you are swallowed by a whale, you would be in digestive juices for a few days,,, all the clothes all the hair on your body would be burned off. And if you have ever smelled a whales spout it would make you puke.

So instead of this Stately, well dressed Jewish Attorney,,,, Jonah rolls up on the Ninevah,,, "South Beach" neighborhood,,, in a hair ball of krill, naked, and as bald as a QUEEN cross dresser,, with no eyebrows even... smelling like rotten shrimp and puke,,,, and the first words out of his mouth are,,,, "I have been sent by God, to give you Good News!!"

And they say, God has no sense of humor!!!

God reduced him to the level he was acting,,,,, and then sent him to do what he was told,,,,, I suggest we don't tempt the lord,,, I think that Gods court will be like a military court,,,

"Did you follow my orders??""

'Yes Sir!! Even though I did not understand or agree!!'

"Enter in, good and faithful servant"

Singularity

I looked a little harder for real answers....

Oops! Google chrome could not find WWW.southeast recovery.com

WWW.latimes.com/news/sci/la-sci-ad
Page not found.

Miss Manners says it it wrong to jump to conclusions.

Would everyone refrain from comment and avoid jumping to conclusions until Jacky has a chance to re check these references and get back to us please?

Alicia Loc: NYC

***********
Have either of you, Jacky or CDM, ever thought that "in his own image" could mean, not physical, but mental image? After all, the Creator created and man is doing exactly that. This thought takes care of any physical differences and makes us all "brothers."

no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun

Among those who have homosexual feelings that they DO NOT WANT to have, the treatment rate of success is around 75%, which is higher than the success rate of treating alcoholics. One of the problems is that the Homosexual activists do not want people who want to change to do so. Therefore they have come up with the lie that homosexuality is totally genetic and cannot be changed like your eye color(without colored contacts) The reason they have done so is that, if it is unchangeable then they should have the right to pursue their behavior including demanding marriage, right to adopt children and what ever else they perceive as a "right" There is NO GAY GENE.
There are groups that help people who want to change including Parents and Friends of EX Gays (PFox.org) If you go on their site you can download for free the entire study of causes of homosexuality, which concludes that the majority of factors are related to childhood experiences (74 percent of male homosexuals report at least one same sex experience during their child or early teenage years), and genes are probably less than 10% of the influence . However, because of the "Gay rights activists" This information, or any flyers from therapists or groups that could help someone change their preference is BANNED from the public schools, where promoting homosexuality education often begins in first and second grade, where children are taught that it is all right to love someone of the same sex. Since at that age children do not interpret love as meaning sexual experiences as love, the idea is gotten into their heads before they even know what is being talked about. If you want any reliable information on the subject download My Genes Made Me Do It from PFox .org for free. If you want information regarding what the school systems are doing get a copy of From Crayons to Condoms as it is very informative.

The homosexual activists have even changed our language in a number of ways. "Gay" is now their preferred term, and they are proud to be "Queer" but not homosexual because that reminds people of what it is all about. They have also changed pedophile and pederast to Intergenerational sexual partners" in other words men and children, pedophile being both pre- puberty pederast being men and boys, generally after puberty. They even want to change the age of consent to 10 or 12 for man-boy "relationships". After all,they claim that that type of sex is good for the children. Then therapists have to try to help children restore their lives, and reconnect their souls. Believe me, that is a difficult and emotionally demanding job.

Alicia Loc: NYC

*************
Brian, To back you up, in my household there are a number of cats. I have found that, since my female is already pregnant, the males are mounting each other (especially attempting to mate with the young ones). I have also observed that the young cats are attempting to nurse on the older males - who allow this and seem to enjoy it.

At one time, evidently, I had too many cats and discovered that some of the males were unable to reproduce or even had the urge. Nature takes care of its own.

no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun

Yes, Alicia, when there are too many cats the fertility rate goes down, particularly in males. Considering female cats are always in season or pregnant, that is a good idea. When people have tried to eliminate ferrel cats by killing them (a large wild cat population increases the disease problems, particularly rabies) they have found the fertility rate of the remaining population increases greatly, which is why there are so many programs of catch and release include spay or neuter as well as rabies shots. However comparing kittens nursing on a male cat(sometimes the males will even develop milk) or riding other cats which are not in season females to human behavior and saying, because animals do it, it should be considered normal and acceptable for humans is foolish. After all, it is also common for a male cat to kill all the kittens in the pack, and female dogs (appropriately called bitches) often kill their entire litters or abandon them at two days. Animal behavior is not a good model for human behavior because animals, by their very nature, are amoral. Hopefully people are not, but I sometimes wonder.