Bruce Kennedy Loc: Kansas

And you're a joke. The sound of desperation, listen to it, and I quote....''YOU CANT PROVE FRAUD' (therefore VOTER ID LAWS ARE NOT RELEVANT)." You know why that is desperation? Because that incoherent statement has nothing to do with the discussion I was having with banjojack. Again you try and divert the subject and interject pure BS that is totally irrelevant. Way to jump into a discussion you know nothing about. Way.....over your head. You must be hallucinating my discussion with "banjojack" has nothing to do with some imaginary discussion you were having with her. Go back to the beginning of this forum, you're nowhere to be found. My original comment was to "Loki" that said she was much better when she had that avatar of Yosemite Sam. She had just posted an article that she thought supported the theory that "voter fraud" was responsible for Al Franken winning the Minnesota Senatorial race. You, my friend were nowhere to be found in our conversation. You didn't show up until you posted in response to my post concerning the eligibility of felons to vote in elections, in the state of Minnesota. Your post was as follows...

"177 felons vote for Al 'bananas' Franken speaks highly of the character of the modern democrat party and their voters"

...You hadn't commented any time before that post. So you obviously chose to jump into our conversation, and consequently contribute absolutely nothing to our discussion.

Nice comment about the comment the... "cheating, money bought, political edge"... Not hard to see how biased you are, "saloopoo?.

Bruce Kennedy Loc: Kansas

You've been at that point for a long time now. We know how long before you post some more predictable BS, your very next post. It's always the same thing with you deny, deny, deny and above all never offer any facts or proof to back up your BS lies. I'll gladly let go of whatever you think I'm holding onto, as soon as you either prove the lies you've posted or concede that there are not 177 "voter fraud" convictions or even 113 "voter fraud" convictions. Better yet just admit that "Minnesota Majority" lied about there so-called "voter fraud" findings.

Bruce Kennedy Loc: Kansas

What? More lying, I'm shocked! Where do you get the idea that I'm using DNC talking points? Can't you ever say something that isn't inherently a lie?

PoppaGringo Loc: Muslim City, Mexifornia, B.R.

Can't you post something that isn't talking point lies?

Bruce Kennedy Loc: Kansas

Do you lie in your sleep, too?

saloopo Loc: Colorado

Dear Admiral Pantload, Thank you for your entertaining rant. Its good to see how easily somebody can tweak your nipple. Always good to hear from an Al Franken fan. A failed comedy routine and failed talk radio host. So, he becomes a politician. If you cant win with the first count, demand a recount. If that fails, demand a third recount. Find some missing ballots in the trunk of some fund raisers car, maybe you can sneak thru a few ineligible voters. Collect a few discarded mail in ballots from the dumpsters behind apartment buildings and out of the trash cans in post office box lobbies. Do I believe the progressives would do this? The Machiavellian 'the ends justifies the means' fans? Of course they would! Youre using the Bart Simpson defense..... 'I didnt do it, You didnt see me do it, you cant PROVE a thing'.

Bruce Kennedy Loc: Kansas

I believe the only one "ranting" is you. You're the one screaming on this forum. But hey when you have nothing meaningful to say, say it LOUD.

1OldGeezer

saloopo,

This post is not necessarily in response to your comment, I pretty much agree with your BASIC position about voter ID; it is in response to the fact that the responses have degraded to mostly negative personal responses. We shouldn't be enemies...

I have been reading the posts and am really saddened that the Obama Administrations' effort to divide us has worked so well. Anyone reading the posts on this forum could see that we have just started hating each other because we have different opinions, so emotionally involved now that we cannot even seriously consider the "enemy's" comments.
This takes most of our effort away from solving the real problems.

NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO PROVE PAST VOTER FRAUD, anyone familiar with the ACORN prosecutions and the subsequent disbanding of this organization knows that voter fraud is very possible and extremely likely if we don't have reasonable safeguards in place. (If you are honest with yourself, you know this to be true.)

It makes me wonder if perhaps there are posters on this forum that have that goal as their mission ?

It is so clear that the requirement to prove your identity when you vote is so important and so easy to do that the "repress the vote" effort is phony and has at least two goals; one is to continue making it easy to vote more that once/vote for some deceased/illegal person, (voter fraud), and two, to demonize the opposition (those wanting voter ID).

Any person who is not so emotionally involved that they can't seriously consider the merits of voter ID would know that an ID is already available to anyone that wants one and is, in fact, required for almost everything a person does in a legal sense now.
Those persons who can't find time to get an ID (.001% of the population??) probably don't know what the election is about anyway and probably wouldn't/shouldn't vote.

This is such a clear issue you have to suspect the motives of those who oppose voter ID.

Those of you who oppose voter ID, look inward, and check your emotional state and thought processes. Are you being used ???

1oldgeezer :-(

Bruce Kennedy Loc: Kansas

While I appreciate the civil tone of this post. It is wrong on so many levels. First of all, if you want to address the real issue, you must realize no one, including Liberals want, nor condone "voter fraud". And while that has nothing to do with the posts between "Loki" and I, I feel the need to discuss the overall issue. I repeat no one is for "voter fraud", but it is not, "The Crisis", Conservatives make it out to be. Yes it occurs, but not at the level Conservatives would have you believe. American citizens have been voting, in the U.S., for over 200 years. And I do not know all of the rules and regulations concerning voter registration, in the past. I assume it was regulated on a state by state basis. But whatever the process was, for the most part, U.S. citizens accepted it. And in, that more than 200 years of voting, "voter fraud", while a problem, never rose to the level of a "crisis". Now we jump in to the new millennia, and politics start becoming more polarized. Finally, in the 2008 election, the U.S. elects it's first black President. All of a sudden, it seems that Conservatives have gone off the deep end. First there were allegations of him not being a U.S. citizen. Accusations of him being a "Muslim". Him being "Socialist", "Communist" or "Fascist" etc. And now, Conservatives see a new "crisis", in the U.S., "Voter Fraud". And just like so many other issues, Conservatives have been silent on, in the past, all of a sudden these issues become the "worst" crises, in American history. Not a peep about these issues prior to Obama becoming President, and yet now it's a HUGE issue. The hue an cry against "voter fraud", by Conservatives, is merely a transparent, manufactured, crisis, in order to disenfranchise millions of "Legal" voters, whom they suspect of being "Liberal" voters. These new state laws are not designed to protect the American public, from "voter fraud", they are designed to keep millions of legal voters from voting. Here's another clear cut piece of evidence that these new laws are designed to keep "legal" voters, from voting. The new restrictions put on "Early Voting" and the shortening of "Voting Hours", at the polls. These restrictions have NOTHING to do with protection from "voter fraud". Now I realize this is not the issue that I was directly discussing with "banjojack", but the "lies" she and organizations like "Minnesota Majority" spread, further the narrative that that "voter fraud" is a major crisis, in this country, which is simply a lie. That statement doesn't mean I am dismissing or condoning "voter fraud", it means that it hasn't been a major crisis, in this country, for over 200 years and nothing has changed. If you want to address the problem of "voter fraud", then a nation wide effort should be made to get "ALL" legal voters registered and properly ID'd. And while you're at it, extend "Early" voting and voting hours, at the polls.

Now let's look at some of the BS 1OldGeezer is spewing. Let's start with this quote, because 1OldGeezer seems to put a lot of emphasis into it....

"NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO PROVE PAST VOTER FRAUD..."


Pardon my French, but wtf does that mean? Does it mean you can just charge and convict individuals, with "voter fraud", without presenting any evidence, to support your accusations? In my discussion with Loki, you're damn straight she, or Minnesota Majority, needs to "PROVE" that there are 177 cases of "voter fraud" convictions. This isn't some,..."Oh, did he really commit "voter fraud"? or "How can you prove he committed "voter fraud"?,...in depth tedious research to determine if these individuals actually committed "voter fraud". These are cases that have already been adjudicated and are supposedly on the court books. So let me make this absolutely clear, I say "Minnesota Majority" and "Loki" are lying about their allegations, that 177 individuals have already been tried and convicted, in the state of Minnesota, for "voter fraud", stemming from the 2008 Senatorial election. Yes they have to prove there are 177 such convictions. I gave "banjojack" some slack, I said she only had to prove 40 such convictions. I love 1OldGeezer's subsequent statement...

"(If you are honest with yourself, you know this to be true.)"

...this is an old ploy often used by people to pre-validate their statements. I won't even begin to go into the ACORN case, which was about a bunch of ACORN employees falsifying registration forms, to get paid more money. Was that wrong, Yes, was it done as some sort of "evil plot" by the Obama campaign committee, to get more votes, No. But that's another debate. My point, 1OldGeezer does what many Conservatives do, He tries and tell you what you think, or how you should think. In this case 1OldGeezer is trying to shape the argument, "that if you don't agree with me, you're not being honest". And subsequently sends the reader a message that the author, 1OldGeezer, is honest.

His next bogus statement is this...

" It is so clear that the requirement to prove your identity when you vote is so important and so easy to do that the "repress the vote" effort is phony and has at least two goals; one is to continue making it easy to vote more that once/vote for some deceased/illegal person, (voter fraud), and two, to demonize the opposition (those wanting voter ID)."


This entire premise is BS. Again for over 200 years "voting fraud", while illegal and not condoned, has never been the crisis 1OldGeezer and Conservatives would have you believe, it is. No laws were passed in states to require IDs to vote, with the exception of the laws passed in the South to keep blacks, from voting. Along with poll taxes, these laws have long been struck down by the courts and ultimately the SCOTUS. When 1OldGeezer says that "repress the vote is phony" then let Conservatives prove it, by making sure every "legal" voter, in this country, is registered and extend "Early voting" and voting hours at the polls. If Conservatives don't support these measures I think it speaks volumes, of their true motives, for Voter ID laws, which looks a lot like..."Voter surpression".

Next 1OldGeezer goes on to say...

"Any person who is not so emotionally involved that they can't seriously consider the merits of voter ID would know that an ID is already available to anyone that wants one and is, in fact, required for almost everything a person does in a legal sense now.
Those persons who can't find time to get an ID (.001% of the population??) probably don't know what the election is about anyway and probably wouldn't/shouldn't vote."

Two points here first he makes a non sequitur argument that IDs are required "for almost everything a person does in a legal sense now". So what? Does that mean they almost tax everything now, so they should just go ahead and tax air? I personally am not against IDs, for voting. IF you ensure every "legal" voter, in this country, gets an ID and is properly registered to vote. Secondly, 1OldGeezer throws out a percentage of .001%, followed by question marks. Wtf is that? Is it an actual statistic or is it some..."I just pulled this out of my ass" statistic? How does this add to his argument? I could say the same thing... " voter fraud votes, comprise only .001% of the total votes cast, in an election". Kind of puts this "Vote Fraud" crisis into perspective, doesn't it?

And finally 1OldGeezer leaves us with this...


"Those of you who oppose voter ID, look inward, and check your emotional state and thought processes. Are you being used ???"

To which I say "open your eyes look around and see what's really up your ass. Are you a tool for Conservatives? Prove that you're not just interested in keeping millions of voters, from voting. Call for the extension of Early voting and extended voting hours, at the polls.

Loki Loc: Georgia

zzzzzzzzzzzzz............. .

saloopo Loc: Colorado

geezer, thank you for a rational response. It is refreshing. I cannot disagree with with any of your statements. I also find it suspicious that there are people here who are so cavalier about our voting system that they would advocate propositions that obviously invite corruption and chaos into our voting system. example: no voter id, elimination of residency requirements and same day registration / voting and mail in ballots, especially when those ballots are being sent to illegals, the dead and to vacated addresses . Any issue that works against the rule of law should be viewed with suspicion as should any who promotes such things.

saloopo Loc: Colorado

:thumbup: :thumbup:

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

Being a conservative you make some compelling arguments. I think a few may have missed the point when you say " I agree with voter ID."
I'm not so sure about voter ID, (drivers license) in keeping the blacks from voting. While the 1%statement may not be accurate, I would mostly agree not having a state id card, or license, or not having the ability to have or get one is perhaps our uniformed voter, including any state, not just the south.
Washington state has a history of voter fraud in the tens of thousands in the last 15 +/- years and registers voters at the time one gets or renews there id.
How is requiring the same in the south, racism? Thanks

Loki Loc: Georgia

Bruce Kennedy Loc: Kansas

Who are you talking to? Are you talking to me?