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Do People Really Go To Hell ?
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Feb 13, 2019 20:57:51   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Doc110 wrote:
Canuckus Deploracus,

By your opinion and retort "A little help here please,"

Do you want me to pray for you. ?

Again, Canuckus Deploracus,
Opinions, opinions, opinions, opinions, opinions... They don't mean anything, it is fruitless rhetoric bloviating.

Provide and Respond with fact's, Fact's FACT's...

No No Supposition's, No Innuendo's, No Exaggeration's of your own Personal Emotional Belief's, No Hypocritical Truth's, No Empty Rhetoric devoid of Real Factual Substance and full of Regurgitated Dendrite Compost Opinions...

Matthew 3:12
John the baptizer was the first to tell us Jesus would be our judge.

Matthew 13:49
"So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,

Matthew 13:39-43
and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.

"So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.

"The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness.

And will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

"Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father He who has ears, let him hear.

John:5:22
“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son….

Jesus himself said in John:3:36
“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” Now we have Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. You can’t separate them.

John 12:47-48
"If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. But all who reject me and my message will be judged on the day of judgment by the truth I have spoken.


John 12:47-48
I will not judge those who hear me but don’t obey me, for I have come to save the world and not to judge it.
We see a very similar discussion between Jesus and the leaders in John 5 where Jesus came to a very similar conclusion.
45 “But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.
47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”

Luke 12:8,9
And I tell you, everyone who acknowledges Me before others, the Son of Man also will acknowledge before the angels of God; but whoever denies Me before others will be denied before the angels of God.

Matthew 25:31-46
Jesus Will Judge the World
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all his angels are with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 The people of every nation will be gathered in front of him. He will separate them as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right but the goats on his left.

Acts 17:30-31
because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead." "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,

34 “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, my Father has blessed you! Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. 35 I was hungry, and you gave me something to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger, and you took me into your home. 36 I needed clothes, and you gave me something to wear. I was sick, and you took care of me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’

37 “Then the people who have God’s approval will reply to him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you or see you thirsty and give you something to drink?

38 When did we see you as a stranger and take you into our homes or see you in need of clothes and give you something to wear?

39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

40 “The king will answer them, ‘I can guarantee this truth: Whatever you did for one of my brothers or sisters, no matter how unimportant they seemed, you did for me.’

41 “Then the king will say to those on his left, ‘Get away from me! God has cursed you! Go into everlasting fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels!

42 I was hungry, and you gave me nothing to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me nothing to drink.

43 I was a stranger, and you didn’t take me into your homes. I needed clothes, and you didn’t give me anything to wear. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t take care of me.’

44 “They, too, will ask, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or as a stranger or in need of clothes or sick or in prison and didn’t help you?’

45 “He will answer them, ‘I can guarantee this truth: Whatever you failed to do for one of my brothers or sisters, no matter how unimportant they seemed, you failed to do for me.’

46 “These people will go away into eternal punishment, but those with God’s approval will go into eternal life.”

Amen, Amen, Let be so, I believe, Amen, Amen.
Canuckus Deploracus, br br By your opinion and re... (show quote)


Thanks... That does make more sense...

I was misreading the quote I originally provided...

I notice all of your quotes are from the Gospels...

May I assume that they hold greater authority than the teachings of Paul?


And thanks for your prayers... You have mine as well...

Reply
Feb 13, 2019 21:46:02   #
Doc110 Loc: York PA
 
Canuckus Deploracus,

Yes the Gospels, hold much more authentic direct authority than to Saint Paul's letters.

Although Saint Paul did speak to our Lord Jesus, many times.

Was Saint Paul privileged to understand a different understanding of Christianity ?

Most Probably not, Jesus Christ's teaching and precepts were very consistent with the teachings to his Early Catholic Church and to the 11 Apostles and the Early Church fathers passed on down through 20 centuries to our present day.

They the apostles, Jews and Gentiles were in all agreement, except for probably circumcision and dietary foods for the Gentiles.

Did Jesus give Paul a different understand and knowledge of Jesus's message, than of the 11 Apostles ?

Paul - Saul did study under the Feet of Gamaliel. A generation before Christ there were two great rabbis, Hillel and Shammai for most of his childhood and adult life.

We also know that he Paul was taught for three years before coming a Catholic priest under Saint Peter.

Paul obviously learned much from the great scholars of Judaism.

It could also be the reason that Saint Paul is taken out of context, and is difficult to understand in his writings and discourse on Judaism and primary was justifiably so to convert the Jewish people.

I think therein-lies the cultural language differences be it Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic languages when speaking to the Jews and the synagogs where he journeyed to in his religious travels of the Gentiles.

2 Peter 3:16
Saint Peter Final Exhortations:

15 Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him.

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

17 Therefore, beloved, since you already know these things, be on your guard so that you will not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure standing.…

Amen, Amen, Let it be so, Amen Amen.

Reply
Feb 13, 2019 22:50:05   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Doc110 wrote:
Canuckus Deploracus,

Yes the Gospels, hold much more authentic direct authority than to Saint Paul's letters.

Although Saint Paul did speak to our Lord Jesus, many times.

Was Saint Paul privileged to understand a different understanding of Christianity ?

Most Probably not, Jesus Christ's teaching and precepts were very consistent with the teachings to his Early Catholic Church and to the 11 Apostles and the Early Church fathers passed on down through 20 centuries to our present day.

They the apostles, Jews and Gentiles were in all agreement, except for probably circumcision and dietary foods for the Gentiles.

Did Jesus give Paul a different understand and knowledge of Jesus's message, than of the 11 Apostles ?

Paul - Saul did study under the Feet of Gamaliel. A generation before Christ there were two great rabbis, Hillel and Shammai for most of his childhood and adult life.

We also know that he Paul was taught for three years before coming a Catholic priest under Saint Peter.

Paul obviously learned much from the great scholars of Judaism.

It could also be the reason that Saint Paul is taken out of context, and is difficult to understand in his writings and discourse on Judaism and primary was justifiably so to convert the Jewish people.

I think therein-lies the cultural language differences be it Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic languages when speaking to the Jews and the synagogs where he journeyed to in his religious travels of the Gentiles.

2 Peter 3:16
Saint Peter Final Exhortations:

15 Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him.

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

17 Therefore, beloved, since you already know these things, be on your guard so that you will not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure standing.…

Amen, Amen, Let it be so, Amen Amen.
Canuckus Deploracus, br br Yes the Gospels, hold ... (show quote)



Thank you...
Those were excellent points concerning Paul...


Query:
As Jesus was a Jew and preached to follow the laws, how are we as Christians to determine which laws apply?

I often hear Leviticus used as justification against homosexuality... But there are many laws in Leviticus that are no longer followed...
How does one make the determination?

Reply
 
 
Feb 14, 2019 04:01:53   #
Texas Truth Loc: Behind Enemy Lines
 
woodguru wrote:
According to Lucifer (the show) hell is tailored to each person's idea of what an eternal hell would be...

makes as much sense as anything else


Are you referring to what a person's rendition of their own personal hell would be? I had a terrible job years ago during the recession and I kind of thought of boy this would be a pretty bad place to end up. To have to do this day in and day out and dealing with all these problems involved with this job for the amount of money earned. And then I started to think well things could be worse. It is said we can't imagine what the hell is really like. I've heard other people describe hell. One was a religious leader who want to go to sleep one night and instead had an out-of-the-body experience and went to hell and he says he experienced first-hand what it was like. You are not there with all your friends. You were about as alone as you can be all the while being tormented by demons tearing you apart and eating you in pure Darkness. You can hear and smell everything but you can't see it? And as your body is being ripped apart and devoured by demons your body is regenerated because it is a Eternal Body and the demons just start all over again and it just keeps going. He said it was the most terrible experience he ever had and being a experienced Church leader it really turned on the light in his own personal experience on how important it is to truly accept the Christ as Lord and savior. He had been preaching for years what is written in the Bible but didn't take it totally seriously until he had his own personal premonition and it scared the bejesus out of him. And had a whole new outlook on what and how he was conducting his services. And it changed his life after a lifetime of preaching to congregations. He said it was a warning from God. And I've also heard that one second in hell is more suffering a human being can endure in a lifetime. That's a tough one to think about. I have also heard each person's punishment is custom-tailored to a person's lifetime of sins. In going back to your first statement hell is a person's idea of what hell is like. I have heard it is beyond our comprehension of what it is really like. Kind of like we try to picture what heaven is like but we can't comprehend that either because that is beyond our comprehension as well. It's just a smorgasborg of food for thought.

Reply
Feb 14, 2019 04:13:31   #
Texas Truth Loc: Behind Enemy Lines
 
Doc110 wrote:
Texas Truth,

We all have to carry our crosses through life, I'm caring my cross of sin, pain and warrantless persecution.

I carry that same cross of sin, to the goal-line Heaven, with joy and asking forgiveness all my days in my heart-beat-life, because I know what awaits me, at the end of our journeys.

Present day modernism Christianity, is now preached by evangelists, Pentecostal, fundamentalism and non-denominational movements is and are, completely "Fill-in-the-Blank" Modernism form's of Christianity including the present day Biblical worldly Relativism, which has clouded people's minds on Jesus's Christ's Authority in his Church that he founded...

a. "Cookies-&-Milk" Bible passages,
b. Naivety of "Watered-Down" Holy scripture,
c. The fallacy of "Feel-Good" Christianity,
d. Shopping-Cart Mentality of Christianity and,
f. Modernism form of Christianity and Biblical worldly Relativism, which has clouded people's minds on

As to the actual truths of what the Holy biblical verses and explicit quotation verses that Jesus taught, the Apostles and the Early Church Fathers has passed down to his Church and to God fearing Christians.

I for one, do not want my soul and my sins to burn in hell for eternity, in a lake of fire.

I relish for my sins to burned away on the threshing fires of Purgatory, because no, soul can enter Heaven unless our souls have been refined and all sin is removed before entrance to Heaven.

Revelation 21:27
There shall not enter into it any thing defiled, or that worketh abomination or maketh a lie, but they that are written in the book of life of the Lamb.
1 Corinthians 6:9–10; Galatians 5:19–21

John the Baptist uses the imagery of the threshing floor to describe the coming Messiah who would separate the true believers from the false.

Matthew 3:12; Luke 3:17
The true followers of Christ will be gathered into the kingdom of God just as grain is gathered into barns, while those who reject Christ will be burned up “with unquenchable fire,” just as the worthless chaff is burned.

Psalm 1:4; Isaiah 17:13
The wicked are often described as chaff that the wind drives away.

Matthew 13:36–43
Similar imagery of the good grain being separated from the worthless weeds appears in the parable of the wheat and the tares.

God uses heat of fire to refine us, and show his reflection in us, before our entrance into heaven.

Isaiah 48:10
Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

Zechariah 13:9
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It [is] my people: and they shall say, The LORD [is] my God.

Malachi 3:3
And he shall sit refining and cleansing the silver, and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and shall refine them as gold, and as silver, and they shall offer sacrifices to the Lord in justice.

Luke 12:49
“I came to cast fire on the earth, and would that it were already kindled!

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

James 3:6
And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell.

1 Peter 1:6-7
In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 4:12-13
Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, establish, strengthen, settle [you].

Revelation 3:18
I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

1 Corinthians 3:13
Each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.

Amen, Amen, Let be so, I believe, Amen Amen.
Texas Truth, br br We all have to carry our cross... (show quote)


High doc 110 thank you for taking the time for sharing your insights and your knowledge of scripture for it is not just for one it is for all. You seem to be pretty solid in your foundation with the Christ. That's awesome brother. We are all on a journey, a learning curve and it's been said a person can't just read the Bible and understand it after reading it just once. I hear people get frustrated and don't understand which is true. It is something that we have to do together. It is a journey through life where we never stop learning about the Christ and God's word. I look forward to spending eternity talking to people like you about how great the Lord really is because it would take eternity to do so. Perhaps we will meet in the garden. God bless Christ be praised amen and amen.

Reply
Feb 14, 2019 09:02:31   #
Wonttakeitanymore
 
Jesus is our lawyer, satan tried to condemn us but when we are washed by the blood of Christ, God doesn’t see the sin anymore! We condemn ourselves if we don’t believe!!

Reply
Feb 14, 2019 09:03:34   #
Wonttakeitanymore
 
Jesus is our lawyer, satan tried to condemn us but when we are washed by the blood of Christ, God doesn’t see the sin anymore! We condemn ourselves if we don’t believe!!

Reply
 
 
Feb 14, 2019 11:14:03   #
kemmer
 
Doc110 wrote:
Written transcript
https://www.catholic.com/audio/caf/176

Audio transcript
https://www.catholic.com/audio/caf/176

I would say that over the last 50 or 60 years or so, there's been a remarkable change of mentality and worldview amongst Catholics, that hasn't really been paid too much attention to.

I would say that the way many of our fellow Catholics look at the world today, would describe it like this: Broad and wide is the way that leads to Heaven.

Almost everybody's going there.

Narrow is the door that leads to hell.

Hardly anybody's going there.

Now, you might say, like, "What's wrong with this picture?"


It's exactly the opposite of what Jesus Himself said. In Matthew, chapter seven, he says, "Broad and wide is the way that's leading to destruction.

Many are traveling that way.

Narrow is the door that leads to life, difficult is the road, and few there are who are finding it."

Now, Jesus didn't say this because he was happy about the situation.

He didn't say it because this is how it has to be.

But when you look out on the world as it is, many, many people are not honoring God.

They're not believing in Jesus.

They're not living righteous lives.

What Jesus is kind of trying to wake us up to is saying, "Hey.

This isn't a game. You know?

If you don't hold on to the bread of life, if you don't really hold on to the one that the Father has sent to bring us to Heaven, you're not gonna go there."

You know?

It's just really, really serious, and this isn't an isolated text. Like Luke, chapter 13.

Imagine, people asked Jesus, "Will there be few in number who are saved?"

Now, that's a pretty interesting question, isn't it?

He said, "Try very hard to enter by the narrow door, because many will try to enter, but will not be able to."

And then it goes on to say ... Well, people say, "Hey, wait a second, Jesus.

We came to your preaching. We ate and drank with you in the streets. What do you mean?"

He says, "I don't know you. Depart from me."

So, people heard about Jesus. They knew about Jesus.

They enjoyed his preaching.

Maybe they even got healed.

But they didn't respond with faith and repentance, and change their lives.

They didn't become disciples.

They didn't enter into a relationship with Him, and pay attention to the instructions He's trying to give us about how to end up in Heaven, rather than hell.

That's why I wrote the book.

To the Synod on the New Evangelization, in 2012.

You wrote a book, actually, Will Many Be Saved?

Bishop Robert Barron, who at the time was Father Barron, familiar to probably almost everybody in the Catholic world ... wrote a review of that book.

You wrote a reply, and the two of you carried on a conversation about salvation.

"Will Many Be Saved"?
Written transcript br https://www.catholic.com/aud... (show quote)

"Hell" is incompatible with who God is.

Reply
Feb 14, 2019 12:24:15   #
F.D.R.
 
At age 77 this is beginning to way on me more each day. Being raised Catholic I've always asked questions that were only answered with "you must have faith". Some examples: If God is everywhere, why can't we see him? The Church told scientists the "you can't make something from nothing", then how did God come into being? How come Jesus came to earth at a time when there was no audio or video recording equipment?

I've come to believe that Heaven & Hell are right here on earth - our choice. And that 'everlasting life' means that we live on in the memories of those we meet while alive. I have problems believing that an 'Ever Loving God' would cast anyone into a lake of fire for eternity. I guess I'll find out soon enough - stay tuned.

Reply
Feb 14, 2019 12:30:40   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
Wolf counselor wrote:
I once heard an atheist denying the existence of hell.

I asked him if he knew that God also condemns many to be cast into the lake of fire.

He then denied the existence of the lake of fire.

So I pulled up a few Hubble images of the sun and let him observe.

Behold...............The Lake Of Fire.


If they are cast into the "Lake fo Fire, as you are sort of implying, how can it be eternal suffering.

I am not an atheist but I doubt the existence of hell very much so. It is not logical for an eternal being to create beings who might have to suffer eternally if they decide not to do the "creators" bidding. In fact, I call it fairy tale. And, I wonder ow many have chosen a type of life based upon a fear of that rather than a love of the life they were forced into choosing??

Since I think it is fairy tale, I am not worried about it. And, it is actually IS true, then I reject the being which brought it into existence. So sorry Gawd, it violates everything I was taught about how to live by my parents and those who actually follow the life which the bible espouses. If you, Gawd, have a problem with that, then you know where to reach me.

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Feb 14, 2019 12:33:33   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
Wonttakeitanymore wrote:
Jesus is our lawyer, satan tried to condemn us but when we are washed by the blood of Christ, God doesn’t see the sin anymore! We condemn ourselves if we don’t believe!!


That is an interesting analogy. I see Christ, colloquially at least, as the being who sees Gawd as being obsessed with "getting" someone, insisting that he needs to punish other beings due to some need he has to feel superior. Christ, in his frustration with Gawd, says Fine! Punish me and be done with it. I'm as immortal as you and thus, I'll be back!

Reply
 
 
Feb 14, 2019 12:48:57   #
flash
 
Texas Truth wrote:
Would it make much of a difference. Are condemned Souls going to ask the question which lake of fire is this. Nobody even told us which one this is or why we are here . I want my lawyer, wait I found him. He is going to sue God.


Any lawyer that sues GOD will surely win since GOD will have no legal representation because there's no lawyers where he's at.😝😝😝

Reply
Feb 14, 2019 13:16:17   #
kemmer
 
F.D.R. wrote:
At age 77 this is beginning to way on me more each day. Being raised Catholic I've always asked questions that were only answered with "you must have faith". Some examples: If God is everywhere, why can't we see him? The Church told scientists the "you can't make something from nothing", then how did God come into being? How come Jesus came to earth at a time when there was no audio or video recording equipment?

I've come to believe that Heaven & Hell are right here on earth - our choice. And that 'everlasting life' means that we live on in the memories of those we meet while alive. I have problems believing that an 'Ever Loving God' would cast anyone into a lake of fire for eternity. I guess I'll find out soon enough - stay tuned.
At age 77 this is beginning to way on me more each... (show quote)

If an earthly father tossed his kid into a place of eternal torture for whatever reason, we’d put that father in jail and throw away the key.

Reply
Feb 14, 2019 13:19:57   #
Radiance3
 
flash wrote:
Any lawyer that sues GOD will surely win since GOD will have no legal representation because there's no lawyers where he's at.😝😝😝


================
For awhile, the lawyer wins. But his eternal damnation is waiting. God is in control.

Reply
Feb 14, 2019 13:24:04   #
flash
 
Radiance3 wrote:
================
For awhile, the lawyer wins. But his eternal damnation is waiting. God is in control.


That was a joke.

Reply
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