PeterS wrote:
Then you understand that ours is a secular nation. It doesn't matter what principles you think we were founded under. Secularism doesn't care what religion individuals might have. It doesn't care if you are a Christian, a Hindu, a Buddhist, a Jew, or if you are a lowly atheist like me. Secularism simply means that Church and State do not mix.
Since you pointed out Madison here are just a few of the things he had to say on the separation of church and state...or secularism:
Direct references to separation:
The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State (Letter to Robert Walsh, Mar. 2, 1819).
Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and & Gov't in the Constitution of the United Statesthe danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history (Detached Memoranda, circa 1820).
Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together (Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822).
I must admit moreover that it may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the civil authority with such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency to a usurpation on one side or the other or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them will be best guarded against by entire abstinence of the government from interference in any way whatever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order and protecting each sect against trespasses on its legal rights by others. (Letter Rev. Jasper Adams, Spring 1832).
To the Baptist Churches on Neal's Greek on Black Creek, North Carolina I have received, fellow-citizens, your address, approving my objection to the Bill containing a grant of public land to the Baptist Church at Salem Meeting House, Mississippi Territory. Having always regarded the practical distinction between Religion and Civil Government as essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, I could not have otherwise discharged my duty on the occasion which presented itself (Letter to Baptist Churches in North Carolina, June 3, 1811).
Now what this means is that Madison very clearly thought that the Constitution he penned was a secular document and that the Establishment Clause provided for such separation. Madison, unlike you, could separate his political and religious views and he knew by doing so that he was protecting both for everyone.
And be careful when citing Jefferson. Jefferson was a Deist and while he adored Jesus Christ he believed that Christ was a mear man and no more divine than you or me. That was the reason behind his writing of the Jefferson Bible--to remove all the divinity and the miracles from Christ's teachings.
Blade, you are probably the most fridge individuals I have ever run across. The thought of secularism mortifies you yet without it you wouldn't be able to enjoy the religious freedom that you have. Ours was founded as a secular country and none other than the author of our Constitution says so. Deal with it or don't. I could really care less...
Then you understand that ours is a secular nation.... (
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Regardless of Symantecs it does not allow for Islam to come in and encroach like a cancer and set up shop.