Peter, I stated that the Whigs formed the Republican Party. I think it was in my first response on this issue in another thread.

Locke's and Hobbes' ideas formed the central part of what is now being called 'Classical Liberalism'.

Hobbes is often overlooked but his philosophy forms one of the core foundations of American politics. (Quoting from http://ashbrook.org/publications/respub-v6n1-kahl/ <<He does this by making a contract or covenant with other men, agreeing that he will "lay down this right to all things, and be contented with so much liberty against other men, as he would allow other men against himself." To put it another way, he extends his rights only so far as they do not conflict with the rights of another.>>) Granted, there was more to his views than just that but that particular idea is the foundation of the American concept of personal liberty. As it was told to me by one of my early grade school teachers, we have the right to swing our fists anywhere we want as long as someone's face isn't already there.

Locke is often emphasized because he was a particular favorite of Thomas Jefferson. (Quoting from https://www.iep.utm.edu/locke/ <<So it is perhaps unsurprising that he wrote a number of works on political issues. In this field, Locke is best known for his arguments in favor of religious toleration and limited government.>>) You can be sure that while Liberals steadfastly glare down their noses at religious believers and constantly seek to grow the power of government to intervene in people's lives, the purported 'father of liberalism', John Locke, would not approve.

(One aside, you keep referring to the Whigs and Tories. Those labels describe English political parties, not the American Whigs (Republicans) and Democrats. The English Whigs were liberals. The American Whigs were not; at least not the ones who formed the Republican Party.)

Like many families and associations in the 1850s, the issue of slavery split the Whig Party into the so-called Cotton Whigs who supported Slavery (found soulmates among the Southern Democrats) and the Conscience Whigs who opposed slavery (formed the Republican Party).

I'll repeat, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of English word usage when it comes to the distinctions between the nouns and adjectives used in describing political philosophies. Don't feel badly; you're not the only one so I'll give you a different kind of example. The field was green(adj). He went to the Green(n). The adjective decribes the condition of the field and the noun is the name of some establishment. Likewise, the distinction is the same between the uppercase and lowercase uses of the terms conservative and liberal.

To understand who was what in modern terms requires that you know or investigate the actual philosophies of the parties involved. As previously noted, things change over time. Actions are historical and can't be changed but can be lied about. If you bother to investigate open mindedly, you will discover that the Democrats have a sordid history on issues of human rights and those inbred attitudes are still visible today. Democrats have never regarded African-Americans as sufficiently intelligent to run their own lives and so continue to provide one crippling welfare program after the other. African-Americans don't have to feel badly about being looked down on by Democrats because Democrats look down on everybody, especially those who support them. As I was told directly by a Democrat politician, "people don't know what is best for them so we have to tell them". In that same vein, Bill Clinton told a gathering in Rochester, NY, that people don't know the proper way to spend their money so the government needs to do it correctly for them. Those views are a long way from the classical liberalism of Locke and Hobbes. They are a long way from Jefferson, Lincoln, the Conscience Whigs (Republicans) who fervently subscribe to the idea that we have a right to live our own lives and live with our own mistakes.

One perspective you are not including is the changing of the parties over time. One time, in particular, was after the civil war and another during the civil rights movements of the sixty's which were not from the Republicans but clearly from the Democrats. I don't believe it's a good idea to pin one party as the enemy, that only incites the other party to do the same. Both sides have their virtues and vices, in a good working condition both sides will offset the weaknesses of the other but when we become so polarized as we have, we become a dysfunctional government.

If you notice, the Republican party is focused primarily on external affairs and protection from foreign entities, while the Democratic tend to protect internally, in the rights and protections of the people, both are important and crucial for a country's healthy sustainable balance and sovereignty.

Here are my questions for you.

1) Were Southern Democrats Liberals and if they were what made them liberal.
2) When did conservatives adopt the Classical Liberal position on government and economics and abandon their belief in agrarianism as an economic system?
3) When did Liberals give up their positions on Classical Liberalism on economics and develop as belief in agrarianism as an Economic System?
4) Define the principal characteristics of a conservative during the American Revolution and thereafter.
5) When did the south become such a strong conservative refuge given its liberal beginnings and when did the north become a haven for liberals given their southern heritage?
6) Lastly, given that Colonial Americans derived the terms Whigs and Tories from the English and I can find no instance where English Whigs were ever considered Conservative why would American Conservatives call themselves Whigs instead of the traditional Tory and what happened to the Tories in this country?

I understand I am asking a lot of you but I would appreciate if you would answer my questions and label your answer and I will do the same for you. Thanks.

Peter, I stated that the Whigs formed the Republican Party. I think it was in my first response on this issue in another thread.

Locke's and Hobbes' ideas formed the central part of what is now being called 'Classical Liberalism'.

Hobbes is often overlooked but his philosophy forms one of the core foundations of American politics. (Quoting from http://ashbrook.org/publications/respub-v6n1-kahl/ <<He does this by making a contract or covenant with other men, agreeing that he will "lay down this right to all things, and be contented with so much liberty against other men, as he would allow other men against himself." To put it another way, he extends his rights only so far as they do not conflict with the rights of another.>>) Granted, there was more to his views than just that but that particular idea is the foundation of the American concept of personal liberty. As it was told to me by one of my early grade school teachers, we have the right to swing our fists anywhere we want as long as someone's face isn't already there.

Locke is often emphasized because he was a particular favorite of Thomas Jefferson. (Quoting from https://www.iep.utm.edu/locke/ <<So it is perhaps unsurprising that he wrote a number of works on political issues. In this field, Locke is best known for his arguments in favor of religious toleration and limited government.>>) You can be sure that while Liberals steadfastly glare down their noses at religious believers and constantly seek to grow the power of government to intervene in people's lives, the purported 'father of liberalism', John Locke, would not approve.

(One aside, you keep referring to the Whigs and Tories. Those labels describe English political parties, not the American Whigs (Republicans) and Democrats. The English Whigs were liberals. The American Whigs were not; at least not the ones who formed the Republican Party.)

Like many families and associations in the 1850s, the issue of slavery split the Whig Party into the so-called Cotton Whigs who supported Slavery (found soulmates among the Southern Democrats) and the Conscience Whigs who opposed slavery (formed the Republican Party).

I'll repeat, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of English word usage when it comes to the distinctions between the nouns and adjectives used in describing political philosophies. Don't feel badly; you're not the only one so I'll give you a different kind of example. The field was green(adj). He went to the Green(n). The adjective decribes the condition of the field and the noun is the name of some establishment. Likewise, the distinction is the same between the uppercase and lowercase uses of the terms conservative and liberal.

To understand who was what in modern terms requires that you know or investigate the actual philosophies of the parties involved. As previously noted, things change over time. Actions are historical and can't be changed but can be lied about. If you bother to investigate open mindedly, you will discover that the Democrats have a sordid history on issues of human rights and those inbred attitudes are still visible today. Democrats have never regarded African-Americans as sufficiently intelligent to run their own lives and so continue to provide one crippling welfare program after the other. African-Americans don't have to feel badly about being looked down on by Democrats because Democrats look down on everybody, especially those who support them. As I was told directly by a Democrat politician, "people don't know what is best for them so we have to tell them". In that same vein, Bill Clinton told a gathering in Rochester, NY, that people don't know the proper way to spend their money so the government needs to do it correctly for them. Those views are a long way from the classical liberalism of Locke and Hobbes. They are a long way from Jefferson, Lincoln, the Conscience Whigs (Republicans) who fervently subscribe to the idea that we have a right to live our own lives and live with our own mistakes.

Word meanings have changed. For instance, gay USED to mean happy. Queer USED to mean unusual. Actually, you don't hear 'queer' much anymore. Chill USED to mean to cool, now it means to coral your attitude. Gangster USED to mean Al Capone types, now it means vicious young black people.
Liberal, meaning, to support progressive politics, doesn't say what they want to progress to.
Why is it that when you see someone with green or purple hair and multiple piercings, that you almost never think,'that must be a conservative'.
And, yes, you should love your neighbor, but our liberal neighbors ( in the new meaning of the word) are the ones who hate and will not accept that Hillary lost. Even our ex-president id calling for people to stand and fight. You know as we all do, that this message will be taken literally as we have already seen. They also label hard and heavy. That's the way it IS today.

Peter, I stated that the Whigs formed the Republican Party. I think it was in my first response on this issue in another thread.

Locke's and Hobbes' ideas formed the central part of what is now being called 'Classical Liberalism'.

Hobbes is often overlooked but his philosophy forms one of the core foundations of American politics. (Quoting from http://ashbrook.org/publications/respub-v6n1-kahl/ <<He does this by making a contract or covenant with other men, agreeing that he will "lay down this right to all things, and be contented with so much liberty against other men, as he would allow other men against himself." To put it another way, he extends his rights only so far as they do not conflict with the rights of another.>>) Granted, there was more to his views than just that but that particular idea is the foundation of the American concept of personal liberty. As it was told to me by one of my early grade school teachers, we have the right to swing our fists anywhere we want as long as someone's face isn't already there.

Locke is often emphasized because he was a particular favorite of Thomas Jefferson. (Quoting from https://www.iep.utm.edu/locke/ <<So it is perhaps unsurprising that he wrote a number of works on political issues. In this field, Locke is best known for his arguments in favor of religious toleration and limited government.>>) You can be sure that while Liberals steadfastly glare down their noses at religious believers and constantly seek to grow the power of government to intervene in people's lives, the purported 'father of liberalism', John Locke, would not approve.

(One aside, you keep referring to the Whigs and Tories. Those labels describe English political parties, not the American Whigs (Republicans) and Democrats. The English Whigs were liberals. The American Whigs were not; at least not the ones who formed the Republican Party.)

Like many families and associations in the 1850s, the issue of slavery split the Whig Party into the so-called Cotton Whigs who supported Slavery (found soulmates among the Southern Democrats) and the Conscience Whigs who opposed slavery (formed the Republican Party).

Why were Conscience Whigs Conservatives and what ideology were Cotton Whigs and why?






I'll repeat, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of English word usage when it comes to the distinctions between the nouns and adjectives used in describing political philosophies. Don't feel badly; you're not the only one so I'll give you a different kind of example. The field was green(adj). He went to the Green(n). The adjective decribes the condition of the field and the noun is the name of some establishment. Likewise, the distinction is the same between the uppercase and lowercase uses of the terms conservative and liberal.

To understand who was what in modern terms requires that you know or investigate the actual philosophies of the parties involved. As previously noted, things change over time. Actions are historical and can't be changed but can be lied about. If you bother to investigate open mindedly, you will discover that the Democrats have a sordid history on issues of human rights and those inbred attitudes are still visible today. Democrats have never regarded African-Americans as sufficiently intelligent to run their own lives and so continue to provide one crippling welfare program after the other. African-Americans don't have to feel badly about being looked down on by Democrats because Democrats look down on everybody, especially those who support them. As I was told directly by a Democrat politician, "people don't know what is best for them so we have to tell them". In that same vein, Bill Clinton told a gathering in Rochester, NY, that people don't know the proper way to spend their money so the government needs to do it correctly for them. Those views are a long way from the classical liberalism of Locke and Hobbes. They are a long way from Jefferson, Lincoln, the Conscience Whigs (Republicans) who fervently subscribe to the idea that we have a right to live our own lives and live with our own mistakes.