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The Military (Command) Opposes Trump
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Aug 18, 2018 17:28:02   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
Fit2BTied wrote:
This kind of information was why I backpedaled in an earlier message to moldyoldy. As is usually the case, both sides stack numbers without regard to relevance. You are absolutely correct in that a number of those on the list were removed for very legitimate reasons. I stand corrected for using the list as proof. I'm pretty sure it was the Russians who snuck that list into my browser search. But that might just be the paranoia.




LOL, good picture... funny is funny...


the Russians are sneaky.. I bet we could find lists all night, but I sat down with coffee and turned on TV.. had a big fight of girl warriors.. fully dressed in thongs and fighting for

the crown of something, or for some guy, or maybe for wine.. they were cleverly armored with those thongs and shields about 6 in by 10 in... well protected..

But they blurred most of them out, cause gosh no old geezer would be safe catching a glimpse of something or other..

Oh well now it is only coffee time..

Reply
Aug 18, 2018 17:28:10   #
truthiness
 
Darned Russians.
Looks like straightup has carried the day in this argument.
Besides, anyone who has been in the service knows that if there are more persons than there are slots to fill, somebody has got to go (or does not get promoted).

Reply
Aug 18, 2018 17:28:58   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
truthiness wrote:
Darned Russians.
Looks like straightup has carried the day in this argument.
Besides, anyone who has been in the service knows that if there are more persons than there are slots to fill, somebody has got to go (or does not get promoted).




that is so true...

Reply
 
 
Aug 18, 2018 20:11:28   #
4430 Loc: Little Egypt ** Southern Illinory
 
Ret. General Wesley Clark LOL as if what he says counts !

Reply
Aug 18, 2018 22:22:02   #
Cadillac
 
straightUp wrote:
As much as draft-dodger Trump wants to be associated with the military, recent developments show that the military isn't returning the enthusiasm. First, the Pentagon tells Trump that his extravagant military parade was too frivolous so they're going to postpone it for now. Aw, now Trump won't get to experience that dictator's wet-dream of having thousands of troops saluting him while on parade.

Then Ret. Admiral William McRaven sends a letter to Trump slamming him for revoking the security clearance of his opponents and requesting that Trump revoke his clearance too so he can have the honor of joining the others in their outspoken resistance to the reckless, half-wit. And now Ret. Lt. General Mark Hertling is standing by the Admiral and saying the same thing.

I know there are a number of veterans on this site that support Trump, but I bet none of them are generals or admirals. Unlike the business world that Trump comes, from where sufficient wealth from daddy can guarantee a certain level of success, the military is entirely merit-based. You can't "buy" your way up the ranks. Military personalities range from barely-literate to the highly-intelligent and in a merit-based system the barely-literate don't rise to levels of command like McRaven and Hertling did.

Of course, dissonance isn't tolerated in the rank and file either, which may explain why commanders remain muted until AFTER retiring; speaking of which... Stars and Stripes ran a story in September 2016 covering the fact that no less than 15 retired generals and admirals united to hold a press conference in which they endorsed Clinton as the smart choice for Commander-In-Chief and warned that Trump would be dangerous to military and country.
https://www.stripes.com/news/former-admirals-and-generals-warn-trump-is-dangerous-to-military-and-country-1.430242

After winning the election anyway, Trump issued a ban on trans-gendered people serving in the military and he found himself confronted by no less than 56 retired generals and admirals that clearly drew a distinction between Trump's bigotry and the more objective rationale of top-brass command.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/56-generals-admirals-trump-trans-military-ban_us_5980abb2e4b00bb8ff39fced

And there's more but you all get the point... Never before in our post-Civil War history has a U.S. President been so resoundingly opposed by top level commanders in the U.S. military. In all, it may be better for Trump if he were kicked out of the White House through politics because at least then, he can play up that victim role of the "unfairly treated president" that he likes so much. Otherwise, he is likely to push things too far and wind up getting b#tch-slapped by his own military command. That wouldn't be so good for him.
As much as draft-dodger Trump wants to be associat... (show quote)

Yup and if you were a General under Obama he fired your ass. Many Generals took early retirements under Obama. Even when the Generals offered a plan to Obama he ignored it. 8 years in office and Obama could only make things worse. And now Trump has to clean up his mess. Trump is also working hard to clean Obamas Mid East mess as well. We may never recover from Obamas mistakes.

Reply
Aug 19, 2018 07:31:32   #
old marine Loc: America home of the brave
 
straightUp wrote:
As much as draft-dodger Trump wants to be associated with the military, recent developments show that the military isn't returning the enthusiasm. First, the Pentagon tells Trump that his extravagant military parade was too frivolous so they're going to postpone it for now. Aw, now Trump won't get to experience that dictator's wet-dream of having thousands of troops saluting him while on parade.

Then Ret. Admiral William McRaven sends a letter to Trump slamming him for revoking the security clearance of his opponents and requesting that Trump revoke his clearance too so he can have the honor of joining the others in their outspoken resistance to the reckless, half-wit. And now Ret. Lt. General Mark Hertling is standing by the Admiral and saying the same thing.

I know there are a number of veterans on this site that support Trump, but I bet none of them are generals or admirals. Unlike the business world that Trump comes, from where sufficient wealth from daddy can guarantee a certain level of success, the military is entirely merit-based. You can't "buy" your way up the ranks. Military personalities range from barely-literate to the highly-intelligent and in a merit-based system the barely-literate don't rise to levels of command like McRaven and Hertling did.

Of course, dissonance isn't tolerated in the rank and file either, which may explain why commanders remain muted until AFTER retiring; speaking of which... Stars and Stripes ran a story in September 2016 covering the fact that no less than 15 retired generals and admirals united to hold a press conference in which they endorsed Clinton as the smart choice for Commander-In-Chief and warned that Trump would be dangerous to military and country.
https://www.stripes.com/news/former-admirals-and-generals-warn-trump-is-dangerous-to-military-and-country-1.430242

After winning the election anyway, Trump issued a ban on trans-gendered people serving in the military and he found himself confronted by no less than 56 retired generals and admirals that clearly drew a distinction between Trump's bigotry and the more objective rationale of top-brass command.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/56-generals-admirals-trump-trans-military-ban_us_5980abb2e4b00bb8ff39fced

And there's more but you all get the point... Never before in our post-Civil War history has a U.S. President been so resoundingly opposed by top level commanders in the U.S. military. In all, it may be better for Trump if he were kicked out of the White House through politics because at least then, he can play up that victim role of the "unfairly treated president" that he likes so much. Otherwise, he is likely to push things too far and wind up getting b#tch-slapped by his own military command. That wouldn't be so good for him.
As much as draft-dodger Trump wants to be associat... (show quote)

Must be that California socialist democrat swamp/sewer water kool-aid talking.

Reply
Aug 19, 2018 07:45:24   #
old marine Loc: America home of the brave
 
Wolf counselor wrote:
There are 231 Generals in the Army.

There are 162 generals in the Navy.

There are 198 generals in the
Air Force

There are 61 generals in the
Marines.

Do you get where I'm going...........Goober ?

Two or three disgruntled officers are 'not' representative of the entire military command.

Next time you you open your mouth to speak on this subject, put your foot in it....... Goober !


I agree. Most general's hide behind the lines and give orders. Advance and take Hill 99. Once it is SECURED with the loss of many good Marines a week later we are ordered back to where we started from.

After a week of resupply and new replacements we are ordered to again to take Hill 99. Again after securing the hill a week or 10 days later we are again ordered back to base to resupply and receive replacements.

It's is a waste of good Marines. If those so called brilliant Generals had any common sense the thing to do would let us hold SECURED hill 99 ones send supplies and replacements to us and hold hill 99.

Reply
 
 
Aug 19, 2018 08:02:06   #
old marine Loc: America home of the brave
 
moldyoldy wrote:
I don't think the president gets consulted on these types of personnel decisions involving disciplinary actions.

The President dosent. The officers in command make these type of decesions .

Reply
Aug 19, 2018 08:48:42   #
moldyoldy
 
old marine wrote:
The President dosent. The officers in command make these type of decesions .


So, why blame the president for demotions, reassignments, and firings? The president would only be involved if it was the top man in one of the services.

Reply
Aug 19, 2018 09:44:51   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
Cadillac wrote:
Yup and if you were a General under Obama he fired your ass. Many Generals took early retirements under Obama. Even when the Generals offered a plan to Obama he ignored it. 8 years in office and Obama could only make things worse. And now Trump has to clean up his mess. Trump is also working hard to clean Obamas Mid East mess as well. We may never recover from Obamas mistakes.




Whenever a war is over, the military has a down size of officers and enlisted..

do you recall the Bush proclamation, (several times) that the victory was ours and war was done..

Then he set up the withdrawal..

coupled with the violation of Behavior explains the retiring/firing of those staff officers you are so concerned with..

It is simply everyday reality, not plot or conspiracy involved..

Think a bit, even if all you read is alt right fish wrap.. think about what is happening and how what you have been told to believe fits with the real events of the world..



Reply
Aug 19, 2018 11:46:17   #
Fit2BTied Loc: Texas
 
permafrost wrote:
Whenever a war is over, the military has a down size of officers and enlisted..

do you recall the Bush proclamation, (several times) that the victory was ours and war was done..

Then he set up the withdrawal..

coupled with the violation of Behavior explains the retiring/firing of those staff officers you are so concerned with..

It is simply everyday reality, not plot or conspiracy involved..

Think a bit, even if all you read is alt right fish wrap.. think about what is happening and how what you have been told to believe fits with the real events of the world..
Whenever a war is over, the military has a down si... (show quote)

Sage advice (Calvin, not permafrost)

Reply
 
 
Aug 20, 2018 11:55:46   #
RT friend Loc: Kangaroo valley NSW Australia
 
straightUp wrote:
As much as draft-dodger Trump wants to be associated with the military, recent developments show that the military isn't returning the enthusiasm. First, the Pentagon tells Trump that his extravagant military parade was too frivolous so they're going to postpone it for now. Aw, now Trump won't get to experience that dictator's wet-dream of having thousands of troops saluting him while on parade.

Then Ret. Admiral William McRaven sends a letter to Trump slamming him for revoking the security clearance of his opponents and requesting that Trump revoke his clearance too so he can have the honor of joining the others in their outspoken resistance to the reckless, half-wit. And now Ret. Lt. General Mark Hertling is standing by the Admiral and saying the same thing.

I know there are a number of veterans on this site that support Trump, but I bet none of them are generals or admirals. Unlike the business world that Trump comes, from where sufficient wealth from daddy can guarantee a certain level of success, the military is entirely merit-based. You can't "buy" your way up the ranks. Military personalities range from barely-literate to the highly-intelligent and in a merit-based system the barely-literate don't rise to levels of command like McRaven and Hertling did.

Of course, dissonance isn't tolerated in the rank and file either, which may explain why commanders remain muted until AFTER retiring; speaking of which... Stars and Stripes ran a story in September 2016 covering the fact that no less than 15 retired generals and admirals united to hold a press conference in which they endorsed Clinton as the smart choice for Commander-In-Chief and warned that Trump would be dangerous to military and country.
https://www.stripes.com/news/former-admirals-and-generals-warn-trump-is-dangerous-to-military-and-country-1.430242

After winning the election anyway, Trump issued a ban on trans-gendered people serving in the military and he found himself confronted by no less than 56 retired generals and admirals that clearly drew a distinction between Trump's bigotry and the more objective rationale of top-brass command.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/56-generals-admirals-trump-trans-military-ban_us_5980abb2e4b00bb8ff39fced

And there's more but you all get the point... Never before in our post-Civil War history has a U.S. President been so resoundingly opposed by top level commanders in the U.S. military. In all, it may be better for Trump if he were kicked out of the White House through politics because at least then, he can play up that victim role of the "unfairly treated president" that he likes so much. Otherwise, he is likely to push things too far and wind up getting b#tch-slapped by his own military command. That wouldn't be so good for him.
As much as draft-dodger Trump wants to be associat... (show quote)


The Australian Navy will keep its trans-gender-sailors from what I heard in stories I really don't know the official position I don't think it's going to become not an offence to bag them out, similar to letting them cuddle up in a wombat hole only in the deep blue sea, I hate it when I'm offensive like that but I love Wombats soooo much as soon as one of the wonderful critters enters my head I just have to write it down.

However reading this article " China and Russia strengthening relationship in bid to thwart US dominance" posted on the ABC.

That's our Top Broadcaster, no adds, Gov owned and operated since 1956.

Anyhow this article posted today tells me that the Australian Government think Trump is leaving the White House soon, or they badly want him too, Heaven only knows why pass the popcorn.

Here is a quick outline of the propaganda.

Chinese President Xi Jinping and Russian President Vladimir Putin are in the midst of a budding bromance.

Russian sausage and vodka is mentioned as Mr.Xi called Putin his best, most intimate friend, goes on about cosying up to Iran as Axis of Autocrats this alliance is helped along by a common enemy no other than Donald Trump's sanctions and tariffs.

Mr. Putin and Xi have met 26 times and one's coming up next month forging the deepest and strongest relationship since 1979.

Their biggest ambition is to thwart American dominance in the World Order and with the help of Iran, they are proving effective in shaping events from Syria to North Korea.

Some obscure Christian University in Tokyo becomes the source of this story telling us that.

"China is feeling the heat, so by strengthening relations with Russia, stressing Comradeship between Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin, the growing military tie -- this is a way to send a message to the United States that China does have options and Russia is a powerful option that can provide energy resources as well".

Authoritarianism is mentioned in a very positive light.

Real ties getting stronger becoming partners in a military relationship.

Then there is this graphic video of "recently tested" (meaning hypersonic) ballistic missiles fired from Russia from two different directions ending in a north south termination flight of 10 multiple war heads on each missile.

"If we look back 15 years Russians only provide second or third-grade military hardware to China but today Russia is providing top-grade military technology and equipment. This is indicative of a shift on the Russian side.

So Toyko tells us, * and we don't normally listen to Japs.

What THE ABC is saying is that Trump is going to be impeached the sooner the better, that's the Australian Broadcasting Commission saying that, and it is likely while Trump is being perceived around the World as irrational.






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Aug 20, 2018 18:46:41   #
Voice of Reason Loc: Earth
 
straightUp wrote:
And there's more but you all get the point... Never before in our post-Civil War history has a U.S. President been so resoundingly opposed by top level commanders in the U.S. military.


Never before? Well, except for the hundreds of retired general and admirals that opposed Obama's Iran treason, just for starters.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/08/28/former-generals-line-up-against-obamas-iran-deal-n2044995

But hey, you're right about 15 retired flag officers backing Hillary. But you 'forgot' to mention the 88 who backed Trump.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/09/06/trump-gets-support-88-retired-generals-and-admirals/89903958/

...and then another 44.

https://www.charismanews.com/politics/press-releases/59977-44-more-retired-flag-officers-endorse-donald-trump

You really should try to find a reliable news source, or, if you already know better, just stop lying.

Reply
Aug 20, 2018 18:50:12   #
greenmountaineer Loc: Vermont
 
In the U.S. military, it is considered inappropriteto get nto politics, and that is why it is retired officders who come out against Trump. However, it is good to recall that when we go into the U.S. military, we take an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. We do not take an oath to defend the government. Some years ago, when I was Ground Comm officer with a ANG fighter group, we got a TWX from NGB one day putting us on 24 hour alert "in support of the Constitution." I learned later that the regualrs got a similar TWX from JCS, but theirs was a bit more specific. It said that if they got any orders to arrest members of Congress or the Supreme court, that they wdre to ignore those orders. A few days later, Dick Nixon resigned. I don't know to this day if somebody at the Pentagon knew or suspected that "Tricky Dick" was planning something or whether they were just putting a shot across the bow as a warning, but our military takes that oath about the Constitution very seriously.

Reply
Aug 20, 2018 19:13:39   #
moldyoldy
 
Voice of Reason wrote:
Never before? Well, except for the hundreds of retired general and admirals that opposed Obama's Iran treason, just for starters.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/08/28/former-generals-line-up-against-obamas-iran-deal-n2044995

But hey, you're right about 15 retired flag officers backing Hillary. But you 'forgot' to mention the 88 who backed Trump.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/09/06/trump-gets-support-88-retired-generals-and-admirals/89903958/

...and then another 44.

https://www.charismanews.com/politics/press-releases/59977-44-more-retired-flag-officers-endorse-donald-trump

You really should try to find a reliable news source, or, if you already know better, just stop lying.
Never before? Well, except for the hundreds of ret... (show quote)


I bet they have changed their minds now.

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