I'm going to propose an idea to those of you on here who are legitimate and would actually like to have intelligent discussion with intelligent people, despite their political affiliation.

There is a certain new (within the last few years) despicable breed of U.S. Constitution hating vermin, that lurks the forums, comment threads of articles, movie and book reviews, etc., whose sole intention is to stir up emotional fervor, block rational discussion, and more generally, spread deceit.

Google "astroturf internet" for an abundant discussion and list of resources on this, or wade through the above stated outlets on your own for firsthand examples.

A successful day for them is to muddy the waters of dialogue and never let logic pervade. When fact becomes blurred, it only feeds the agenda of the ones who intentionally blur.

How to spot this? Here is a simple formula: If a review or comment is emotionally charged, mudslinging and lacking real discussion of actual issues, it's suspect of being one of these rascals. And everything they post should be ignored until they can prove themselves to have a real issue to discuss, not just a place to vent their vile, anti-american spume.

Particularly shocking is the transparency, yet we all have turned a blind eye on it to some extent or another, and explained it away as "a few bad eggs that aren't intelligent enough to debate so they throw mud to mask this or who never grew up and still shout irrationalities like children on a playground". But deny it no more.

The pattern appears to be a strong association between this tactic and a certain set of views: pro-corporate, anti-tax, anti-regulation, anti-thought, anti-everything. "The government is trying to rule you, never mind that we're asking you to surrender logic to us by believing everything we say. We're not trying to think for you, we swear..."

The whole concept is astoundingly absurd. Both traditional conservatives and traditional progressives tend to be more willing to discuss an issue than these ultra right-wing scoundrels, many of whom seek to shut down debate (and if it's left-wing boloney, the same applies. Nonsense is nonsense, and has no place in the political arena anymore).

We need to band together and expose the mendacious liars for what they are. And ignore their posts entirely, as if it was written by an angry toddler throwing a tantrum and hitting random keys, then hitting send. Which is of course what they are (no offense to toddlers, of course).

If they want write posts against us, to each other, etc., who cares (until forum Moderators step up to put a stop to this). It must be viewed as just black smoke blowing by the battlefield of reason, instead of spending even an ounce of energy "combating" their treacherous, anti-americanism.

Call it chicanery, sophistry, or whatever you wish, but arguing with emotionally driven, discussion hating, fact obscuring denial-bots is just a plain waste of time. See it for what it is and let's leave them behind to scheme and blow smoke amongst themselves until they realize no one is paying attention anymore. We'll work TOGETHER to rebuild a new country of integrity ourselves.

As Mark Twain said, "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

What is particularly heinous is that this chips away, and perhaps crumbles finally, our trust of big business/the wealthy class (who supports this financially) and politicians (who reguritate and perpetuate the rhetoric), which imminently erodes our trust of each other. The worst thing someone can take away from someone else is their trust of one another, or that the powers that be aren't acting in the general populations best interest.

Do some research for yourself and learn about the methods used by the devious factions, which is rapidly growing unfortunately.

This "diatribe" is not in anyway a demonizing of republicans or the right-wing in general. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, it's a constitutional right. But we're not entitled to fact obscuring deceit or outright lies. When we all differ, we should be able to discuss the real issues and help each other to see things from one another's perspective. If we still disagree, then so be it. At least we are making a case based on FACT, not RHETORIC. And not intentionally deceiving and attempting to sway one another through fake reviews, propaganda, or worse, using methods of coersion and plain lying to influence each other and imminently our political sphere to the gains of the fraudulent. This has quite dire consequnces, which there shouldn't be a need to point out here.

Is whipping people into a fervor by these means really what we want our world to be like? Sadly, looking over the above stated posting places, it clearly illustrates that's the way things already are, and have been for some time (this dates back at least 4 years by my research), but when one is raised in this type of environment, it isn't always easy for some of us to separate out that many of our ideas, or worse, our entire realities have been manipulated.

While this concept is obvious to some, it is more subtle to others.

Presenting people facts about the issues is far different than playing their emotions through the repetition of sound bites through various medias; that is a form of control. I for one don't want to live in a society that uses such measures, indeed spends much of their time scheming up new ones. And I'm sure if everyone knew the extent to which that is done, they wouldn't either.

If someone disagrees with what I am saying, let's debate the facts. Prove it right or prove it wrong. Don't scream and holler and bring commotion to it that gets us nowhere and keeps us spinning in circles. In fact, it takes us further from the truth, which seems is their point. I'm done addressing such balderdash.

Most of the sensible, rational population (what's left anyway) has the urge to grab the people following these tricksters and shake them saying, "you idiots, wake up!", but we have to resist this urge and see it for what it is. Generally good (if confused) people who are looking for anything to latch onto that smells of a possible solution to their hardships. They've been lied to, mislead, and brainwashed. Many are simply victims of the scheme, not initiators of it.

For those able to see this for yourselves already and who are disheartened, keep your mind open and your chin up. Sadly, these are manipulated times we live in. Be very skeptical of all the nonsensical, fact obscuring rhetoric these lowlife's spew.

P.s. A final note to the deceptive posters for wasting so much of mine and other people's time: Have fun trying to squash free thought, all you brainwashed Denial-bots! I love it when you get your panties in a bind every time the truth comes out. You guys crack me up!!! : P

You have provided me, once again, with advice that I can live by. That is, when it gets nasty; to bail. I would love to discuss issues, which is quite hard to do with the Democrats on this site. When you supply references that is included and quoted from a government source or from a recognized book, they either start with the race issue or use unnecessary name calling. If you continue to act civil, and provide further references then they stop responding. So they end any possible discussion. They appear to enjoy their own voices.

Thank you Mr. Ed, yet again!
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

I'm going to propose an idea to those of you on here who are legitimate and would actually like to have intelligent discussion with intelligent people, despite their political affiliation.

There is a certain new (within the last few years) despicable breed of U.S. Constitution hating vermin, that lurks the forums, comment threads of articles, movie and book reviews, etc., whose sole intention is to stir up emotional fervor, block rational discussion, and more generally, spread deceit.


Google "astroturf internet" for an abundant discussion and list of resources on this, or wade through the above stated outlets on your own for firsthand examples.

A successful day for them is to muddy the waters of dialogue and never let logic pervade. When fact becomes blurred, it only feeds the agenda of the ones who intentionally blur.

How to spot this? Here is a simple formula: If a review or comment is emotionally charged, mudslinging and lacking real discussion of actual issues, it's suspect of being one of these rascals. And everything they post should be ignored until they can prove themselves to have a real issue to discuss, not just a place to vent their vile, anti-american spume.

Particularly shocking is the transparency, yet we all have turned a blind eye on it to some extent or another, and explained it away as "a few bad eggs that aren't intelligent enough to debate so they throw mud to mask this or who never grew up and still shout irrationalities like children on a playground". But deny it no more.

The pattern appears to be a strong association between this tactic and a certain set of views: pro-corporate, anti-tax, anti-regulation, anti-thought, anti-everything. "The government is trying to rule you, never mind that we're asking you to surrender logic to us by believing everything we say. We're not trying to think for you, we swear..."

The whole concept is astoundingly absurd. Both traditional conservatives and traditional progressives tend to be more willing to discuss an issue than these ultra right-wing scoundrels, many of whom seek to shut down debate (and if it's left-wing boloney, the same applies. Nonsense is nonsense, and has no place in the political arena anymore).

We need to band together and expose the mendacious liars for what they are. And ignore their posts entirely, as if it was written by an angry toddler throwing a tantrum and hitting random keys, then hitting send. Which is of course what they are (no offense to toddlers, of course).

If they want write posts against us, to each other, etc., who cares (until forum Moderators step up to put a stop to this). It must be viewed as just black smoke blowing by the battlefield of reason, instead of spending even an ounce of energy "combating" their treacherous, anti-americanism.

Call it chicanery, sophistry, or whatever you wish, but arguing with emotionally driven, discussion hating, fact obscuring denial-bots is just a plain waste of time. See it for what it is and let's leave them behind to scheme and blow smoke amongst themselves until they realize no one is paying attention anymore. We'll work TOGETHER to rebuild a new country of integrity ourselves.

As Mark Twain said, "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

What is particularly heinous is that this chips away, and perhaps crumbles finally, our trust of big business/the wealthy class (who supports this financially) and politicians (who reguritate and perpetuate the rhetoric), which imminently erodes our trust of each other. The worst thing someone can take away from someone else is their trust of one another, or that the powers that be aren't acting in the general populations best interest.

Do some research for yourself and learn about the methods used by the devious factions, which is rapidly growing unfortunately.

This "diatribe" is not in anyway a demonizing of republicans or the right-wing in general. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, it's a constitutional right. But we're not entitled to fact obscuring deceit or outright lies. When we all differ, we should be able to discuss the real issues and help each other to see things from one another's perspective. If we still disagree, then so be it. At least we are making a case based on FACT, not RHETORIC. And not intentionally deceiving and attempting to sway one another through fake reviews, propaganda, or worse, using methods of coersion and plain lying to influence each other and imminently our political sphere to the gains of the fraudulent. This has quite dire consequnces, which there shouldn't be a need to point out here.

Is whipping people into a fervor by these means really what we want our world to be like? Sadly, looking over the above stated posting places, it clearly illustrates that's the way things already are, and have been for some time (this dates back at least 4 years by my research), but when one is raised in this type of environment, it isn't always easy for some of us to separate out that many of our ideas, or worse, our entire realities have been manipulated.

While this concept is obvious to some, it is more subtle to others.

Presenting people facts about the issues is far different than playing their emotions through the repetition of sound bites through various medias; that is a form of control. I for one don't want to live in a society that uses such measures, indeed spends much of their time scheming up new ones. And I'm sure if everyone knew the extent to which that is done, they wouldn't either.

If someone disagrees with what I am saying, let's debate the facts. Prove it right or prove it wrong. Don't scream and holler and bring commotion to it that gets us nowhere and keeps us spinning in circles. In fact, it takes us further from the truth, which seems is their point. I'm done addressing such balderdash.

Most of the sensible, rational population (what's left anyway) has the urge to grab the people following these tricksters and shake them saying, "you idiots, wake up!", but we have to resist this urge and see it for what it is. Generally good (if confused) people who are looking for anything to latch onto that smells of a possible solution to their hardships. They've been lied to, mislead, and brainwashed. Many are simply victims of the scheme, not initiators of it.

For those able to see this for yourselves already and who are disheartened, keep your mind open and your chin up. Sadly, these are manipulated times we live in. Be very skeptical of all the nonsensical, fact obscuring rhetoric these lowlife's spew.

P.s. A final note to the deceptive posters for wasting so much of mine and other people's time: Have fun trying to squash free thought, all you brainwashed Denial-bots! I love it when you get your panties in a bind every time the truth comes out. You guys crack me up!!! : P

Excellent post Mr. Beck... I share many of your views, it seems that emotion is easy and excepting fact is not ... I find that there is a lot of selling or trying to convert going on in the name of take back our country... Its like we have been invaded by a foreign power prepping us for the gas chambers... I find this view too extreme to have any real debate over policy or issues. Then if you factor in the blame game.... we have total divorce of civil discussion... If you just look at the topic headings you will see my point. It seems that many see only the past few years not the last 100+ as moving away from our Constitutional Republic. This extremism has surfaced many times in our past from a review of our history... I ponder this question lately ... are we a just people? do we go to war to help freedom and democracy? or capitalism and profit? or are they one and the same?