Terbreugghen

While it is true that if we eliminate any incentive to invest in conjugal marriage, children will continue to be born, our national IQ will diminish. Short-sighted liberals simply cannot understand how social control of reproduction was not intended to oppress anyone. Let me explain this.

in the west, conjugal marriage formed a very specific limitation on childbirth. Children were to take the father's last name.

So why was this? Because men are big and mean and patriarchal? There are many stupid people who believe this lie.

I know this might be hard, but think about the reproductive dynamics of fatherhood. You impregnate a female. Nine months later a kid comes out of there. How sure are you that this kid is genetically related to you? Unless you've kept that woman under lock and key, (and sometimes not even then) you can't be sure of a genetic relationship to you.

The mother, on the other hand, is absolutely convinced whose kid it is, because it came out of THERE. No question she's genetically related.

So with no social controls on childbearing, add male reproductive strategy #1, to impregnate far and wide and keep roaming until a bigger stronger more aggressive male ends your reproductive live one way or another.

Cut to the next generation (and the next, and the next) Women have 7 kids from 7 different fathers, and none of them know who their father is. And these people are having children with the local crowd, none of whom know THEIR fathers.

What is the likelihood of half-siblings creating genetic idiots because they don't know they're related?

Compare this to a society in which children bear their father's last name because the mother and fatherboth are incentivized to keep this relation very very clear.

Now you see WHY CONJUGAL MARRIAGE MATTERS. And why it, and IT ALONE, MUST be incentivized.

Of course if you're just out to screw someone of the same sex, none of that applies. Which is why marriage makes NO SENSE for that group.

Sorry. The state and future generations simply have no relevant interest in the emotional lives of gay couples.

The Progressive Patriot

Well this is certainly the biggest load of horseshit that I've heard lately. You partially answered my first question but didn't touch the second. You speak of social control of reproduction but ignore that fact that the debate is, for the most part not about reproduction. And to the extent that reproduction is an issue, gay couple can and do have children by a variety of means, and form stable and nurturing families for them. I may not want to hear that but I’m not responsible for you ignorance

And what was that about IQ? Can you possibly be serious? You actually believe that there is a lot of concern among men about whether the child is theirs, they could not find out if there was a concern, and that in the absence of “social controls” they will be out there screwing everybody in sight and having as many children as possible? You have a very dim view of human nature. And you have the nerve to conclude that “The state and future generations simply have no relevant interest in the emotional lives of gay couples”??!! You do not , that’s for sure but you’re so mentally twisted that you think that you can project that view and make it reality. Pathetic!

Again, this has NOTHING to do with the issue of marriage equality. It’s all a smokescreen, It’s bullsh*t! You reside in a very strange reality. The modern world has left you behind. And NO I DON”T SEE WHY CONJUGAL MARRIAGE MATTERS. You're painting a picture of a society run amok because of gay marriage and to do so is despicable.

I believe that you don’t give a rat’s ass about children, families or population growth, or any of the other crap you laid out here .You were careful to leave religion out of this but that doesn't fool me. All that you care about is advancing your agenda of intolerance and religious oppression. You use these issues because you know that the religious argument will only go so far- that not even all religious people buy it .I would have slightly more respect for you if you just admit that you think that you have a right to dictate morality and lifestyle based on your religious values. I say slightly more respect. That would be the difference between zero and a 1 or 2 on a scale of 0-100.Your ilk disgusts me to the core.

Jonas Planck

So, what I've learned from this thread is the ad populum argument works great when public opinion is on your side, but when the tide turns against you, then all of a sudden the "will of the people is sacrosanct," turns into "the people are immoral scum, and they should NEVER be allowed to have opinions!!!"

Way to stick by your guns, there, flip-floppers. Incidentally, if you have no problem commanding other people to live their lives according to your opinions, why do you not reciprocate this principle and allow others to tell YOU how you're supposed to live? Actually, now that I think about it, that's exactly what you've done... Embracing the seductive lies of pundits, lies that encourage you to declare undeserved authority over your countrymen, based on nothing more than the fallacious insinuation that tolerating other people will DESTROY ALL LIFE ON EARTH!!! At least most of you have learned how to couch your delusions in flowery language, making them SEEM intellectual. That tactic doesn't work on those who possess actual reading comprehension skills.

Terbreugghen

You're a joke, TheChardo. You've descended into making things up I never said, attributing things to me I've never thought, and attacking them, then rounding it all out by expressing emotional disgust. Sorry, you've left any intellectual credibility far behind.

The Progressive Patriot

Really? I don't think so, I think that I got it exactly right and your outraged that I saw through your bull. Deal with it.

The Progressive Patriot

THE TWELFTH STATE: MINNESOTA APPROVES MARRIAGE EQUALITY
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/05/the-twelfth-state-minnesota-approves-marriage-equality.html

The end of civilization as we know it!!

Terbreugghen

meh.

Skyicewolf

I'm glad Minnesota finally became civilized. Only 38 more states to go.

The Progressive Patriot

Right on Skyiewolf! Welcome. Be prepared to catch some sh*t here. I'm usually the only lightning rod for the crazies here

fastwalker Loc: Atlanta

Like I always say, resistance is futile!

ABBAsFernando Loc: Ohio

Communist Goals (1963)

Documention below

Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35

January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals

EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Thursday, January 10, 1963

http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm



25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."



39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.



IT SHOULD BE CLEAR TO ALL THAT THE ENEMY WITHIN SEEKS THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FAMILY UNIT. THE FAMILY UNIT IS THE BACKBONE OF SUCCESSFUL NATIONS.

WE HAVE KNOWN THESE GOALS FOR SOME TIME YET HAVE IGNORED THEM. TIME TO WAKE THE HELL UP!

A communist Useful Idiot!


Communist Propaganda pretending to be news

Dave Loc: Upstate New York

Do you consider only those who disagree with you to be crazy? Are you really so sure of your superiority that people can have different opinions than you by being insane? Do you realize that as a caring "progessive" you are supposed to refrain from using derogatory terms like crazy?

The Progressive Patriot

No Dave, I actually don’t consider you crazy. We have health disagreements. You’re a fairly reasonable guy although I do believe ideology gets in the way of sound reasoning . BTW, I will get back to you on that supply side economics , been busy.

What I consider crazy is the theoretically driven Islam phobia, and Homophobia. I consider the conspiracy theorists who think that Obama is a Kenyan Muslim who is out to destroy America crazy.

Also, those who believe that everything that the government does is bad, and that no one should pay taxes is crazy. A few on here even want to do away with government entirely. Someone else of the same ilk said that gays should be locked up in government hospitals. Hummmm. Guess that would the the one thing that gov.can do right.

Those are just a few examples. Sorry folk, you are stark raving loony tunes!

Dave Loc: Upstate New York

OK, but let's agree that there are crazies on all sides - and ideology gets in the way of everyone's thinking. An example of both might be your statement that the conspiracy theory that has Bush behind 9/11 might have some credibility to it. Frankly, if you really believe that you are no different, from the left, than those you call crazy on the right. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't really mean that.

The Progressive Patriot

You won't let that go.I did say that, but the important difference is that I said it was "possible" In this crazy world, anything is possible. I also said that it's possible that Obama is a Muslim...although I wouldn't care. And as you know, I accept the possibility of God.

The Bush's have had their hand in all sorts of dirty stuff for decades. Read Family of Secrets , "The Bush Dynasty, America's Invisible Government and Hidden History of the Last Fifety Years" by Russ Baker.

These people on here "know" what they think that they know with all of their hearts and minds. They "know" the unknowable and make completely baseless claims based on superstition, fantasy, lies or just the voices in there heads.